Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[purpleandgreen]

Could be related to this:

"The day William went missing, a woman knocked on Mr Savage's door to raise the alarm.

At the time, neighbours told police they heard the foster father screaming out his son's name as he ran around the property in a panic.

But on Thursday Mr Savage told Counsel Assisting Gerard Craddock he heard nothing that morning.

"You didn't hear anyone calling out for William?" Mr Craddock asked.

"No I didn't," Mr Savage replied.

In his police statement, Mr Savage said he saw the foster father "crying and upset", but when asked about it on Thursday, he said "I don't remember that".

Mr Savage also recalled speaking to neighbours about the missing boy despite them not remembering those exchanges, the inquest was told.

He then claimed he began searching for the missing boy."

Key witness changes his story at William Tyrrell inquest

There's that selective memory, again.

 

[Ms Kite]

There's that selective memory, again.

Could also be related to this 'selective' memory?

"He also told the court that when he went to speak to William's foster grandmother – a 30-second conversation – she told him that William's foster mother had left him outside while she went in to make a cup of tea.

But the long-time Kendall resident had not told police that in any of his interviews, the court heard.

"You've given a number of statements to police and you didn't tell them about the foster grandmother saying something about making a cup of tea," counsel assisting the Coroner Gerard Craddock SC said.

"I'm pretty sure that's what she told me, she went inside for a cuppa and when she came out the little fella was missing. That's just something that I must have thought of recently", Mr savage responded."

https://www.smh.com.au/national/dis...iam-tyrrell-went-missing-20190822-p52jns.html

 

[Karinna]

Could also be related to this 'selective' memory?

"He also told the court that when he went to speak to William's foster grandmother – a 30-second conversation – she told him that William's foster mother had left him outside while she went in to make a cup of tea.

But the long-time Kendall resident had not told police that in any of his interviews, the court heard.

"You've given a number of statements to police and you didn't tell them about the foster grandmother saying something about making a cup of tea," counsel assisting the Coroner Gerard Craddock SC said.

"I'm pretty sure that's what she told me, she went inside for a cuppa and when she came out the little fella was missing. That's just something that I must have thought of recently", Mr savage responded."

https://www.smh.com.au/national/dis...iam-tyrrell-went-missing-20190822-p52jns.html

Has it been stated by anyone PS's overall health before there is a rush to judgement?
(quote)
The early signs of dementia are very subtle and may not be immediately obvious.
Early symptoms also vary a great deal.

Usually though, people first seem to notice that there is a problem with memory, particularly in remembering recent events.

Memory loss that affects day-to-day function

It's normal to occasionally forget appointments or a friend's phone number and remember them later.

A person with dementia may forget things more often and not remember them at all.

Difficulty performing familiar tasks

People can get distracted from time to time and they may forget to serve part of a meal.

A person with dementia may have trouble with all steps involved in preparing a meal.

Confusion about time and place

It's normal to forget the day of the week - for a moment.

But a person with dementia may have difficulty finding their way to a familiar place, or feel confused about where they are.
Dementia Australia | Warning signs of dementia

 

[Ms Kite]

Has it been stated by anyone PS's overall health before there is a rush to judgement?
(quote)
The early signs of dementia are very subtle and may not be immediately obvious.
Early symptoms also vary a great deal.

Usually though, people first seem to notice that there is a problem with memory, particularly in remembering recent events.

Memory loss that affects day-to-day function

It's normal to occasionally forget appointments or a friend's phone number and remember them later.

A person with dementia may forget things more often and not remember them at all.

Difficulty performing familiar tasks

People can get distracted from time to time and they may forget to serve part of a meal.

A person with dementia may have trouble with all steps involved in preparing a meal.

Confusion about time and place

It's normal to forget the day of the week - for a moment.

But a person with dementia may have difficulty finding their way to a familiar place, or feel confused about where they are.
Dementia Australia | Warning signs of dementia

I honestly don't know the status of PS's health, Karinna.

I'm just using these quotes as examples of the types of discrepancies in times and stories that Police might have been trying to untangle at the time the resident survey was undertaken.

 

[SouthAussie]

I honestly don't know the status of PS's health, Karinna.

I'm just using these quotes as examples of the types of discrepancies in times and stories that Police might have been trying to untangle at the time the resident survey was undertaken.

I also don't think that we can fairly speculate that his health could be this way or could be that way. There are discrepancies (for whatever reason). I think that somewhere in between those discrepancies are bits and pieces of facts - I hope - that may be useful.

Mr Craddock had him on the stand for three days trying to sort out the discrepancies. But I would say that whatever Savage told police initially, when he was younger, is the story that he wanted them to have at the time.

I also think that whatever other people told police/Mr Craddock about Paul Savage on that day is likely more accurate than the things he says himself.

 

[sosocurious]

I honestly don't know the status of PS's health, Karinna.

I'm just using these quotes as examples of the types of discrepancies in times and stories that Police might have been trying to untangle at the time the resident survey was undertaken.

Yes PS health status is an unknown factor.
He was intending to go on a long road trip and that seems a little risky to himself and others if he was experiencing memory loss. He could forget the road rules or where he was to turn up. imo

Was he genuinely fabricating memories to fill the memory gaps, or just telling known porkies?

 

[deugirtni]

Was his memory at issue way back in September 2014? Or was it in later times that this was noticed, as he reflected *back* to that time? It is possible that with his advancing age and his losses, not to mention the time that had passed between the event and perhaps the time he is being questioned? I can't remember (memory going???) when it was that he was initially questioned, and if he was all balled up at that time, or just later on??

 

[deugirtni]

.... or just telling known porkies?

Thanks for the chuckle.. is this an ozzie term?

 

[Thebottomline]

Thanks for the chuckle.. is this an ozzie term?

Aussie slang. Porky pies = lies

 

[Deleted member 102539]

For some time now, my head was buzzing with a lot of cars driving in Kendall, parked, reversed, drove back, rested, drove crazy and what not all. I wonder, why William did not have to stay close to the house or was guarded, if the property did not have at least a secure fence and if the child was still a stranger there, which means, William was probably more at risk than in his usual environment (though a "village idyll" and no big city). William also was certainly more curious than in his usual environment, especially when he was asked to wait for his father's return. I'm not thinking of a possible (pedophile?) kidnapper, who could have waited on the street - who's counting on that? I just think about the risk for William to run into the street (and in front of driving cars) or get lost on the many large plots (with their special unknown dangers).

In my mind, all the things, we hear, don't fit well together in some way. Okay, if we wouldn't have heard/learned of an abduction (or an accident), we wouldn't have interest in these details and all would seem to have been a normal morning in a small village. But unfortunately little William disappeared and now all the details are of interest, as always in cases like this.

 

[sosocurious]

Was his memory at issue way back in September 2014? Or was it in later times that this was noticed, as he reflected *back* to that time? It is possible that with his advancing age and his losses, not to mention the time that had passed between the event and perhaps the time he is being questioned? I can't remember (memory going???) when it was that he was initially questioned, and if he was all balled up at that time, or just later on??

I wish we knew if he had some unfolding cogitive impairment. I guess it comes down to what he said in that first written statement on the 25 September 2014. He made no mention of seeing the 2 cars parked on the street on the 10 September 2014, only mentioning them in his 16 March 2016 statement. Which was after the 6 September 2015 release of the ffc having seen the cars.

NoCookies | The Australian
William Tyrrell inquiry: Neighbour gives muddled evidence on unknown cars

The direct line of view question asked by Jubes. Maybe PS said he saw the 2 cars parked on the 10 September from his porch and Jube's knew no way he could have.

 

[drsleuth]

IMO PS played the forgetful old man card quite well................

Some of his evidence seemed to change to suit what had been said in the media over the years ( eg the FFC going inside & having a cuppa) .

His first statement was made on the 25/9/14 ( so within 2 weeks ) his memory would have been fresh than............

If there was a true medical reason for his "memory failure" at times , other than general decline in aging years, I'm sure this would have been made known my his legal team.

So many of his questions were answered with ambiguity for a reason IMO

Than others he could re-call fine. Like the 4WD on the 11/9/14 that he heard at 11am go up the fire trail, but couldn't remember if HS went for a walk that day ( or any day really ) Seems his memory is selective IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Here is something else that I wonder about. Where else did Heather go that morning, before she headed out to bingo? Is another errand what made her run late for bingo? Did she have to nip out to the shops to get something towards the food she was preparing for her brother's arrival? If so, when did she do that?
Or did she go for a walk - but not with her husband?

BBM:
His wife had also been at home at times that morning before going out to bingo.
https://7news.com.au/news/crime/new-search-as-tyrrell-inquest-continues-c-408003

 

[interested64]

Remember Jubes kept saying “ someone knows “ I always thought that was directed at someone. Some lone wolf predator could have kept this whole thing to themselves. Seems he had reason to believe someone else knew[

Police oversee the investigation. The buck stops with them. Historically, if police chose to not follow up on a lead, that was that.

A family could push for an inquest. In the Levenson case we saw a Coroner force the suspect to answer questions. That ruling was upheld on appeal. Suddenly police now have an avenue to break through the right to silence. They could ask for an inquest too.

I think we will see more and more inquests, especially for Cold Cases. I recently read that some of our most notorious cases, like the Beaumont children, were never the subject of an inquest.

The Beaumont children,sad case and i wonder why there was never an inquest ?

 

[purpleandgreen]

Here is something else that I wonder about. Where else did Heather go that morning, before she headed out to bingo? Is another errand what made her run late for bingo? Did she have to nip out to the shops to get something towards the food she was preparing for her brother's arrival? If so, when did she do that?
Or did she go for a walk - but not with her husband?

BBM:
His wife had also been at home at times that morning before going out to bingo.
https://7news.com.au/news/crime/new-search-as-tyrrell-inquest-continues-c-408003

Good find, SA.

 

[interested64]

When did KC say AJ said he was going to fuel up the car and join the search?
Which car?
I guess I am wondering how that household heard William was missing.

mm yeh funny how he was going to join the search and bill went for dinner

 

[interested64]

Can we discuss this 10:05 time a bit further ?
From the first inquest FFC stated that she had expected MFC home from as early as 10:15hrs ....

As per this article...
William Tyrrell inquest: Foster mum says she wished she saw licence plates

“She told the court that William had been “getting very bored” just before he vanished and they were waiting for his foster father to return from the nearby town of Laurieton.

She had been expecting her husband to return from a visit to the chemist and a telephone conference meeting between 10.15am and 10.30am that morning.

“William’s sister was still drawing,” she said.

“He was getting very bored with the game. He was running up and down.

“I said to William (and his sister) ‘you know what? Why don’t we go down and see if Daddy’s car is here yet’.”

So if she was expecting him home at 10:15 ... it is possible that it was a bit before 10:00 when this occurred ... ?? Possibly thinking it’s only 15-20mins or so, till he will be home ...

And is it also possible that after the first time to check “if Daddy was home yet” that William took it upon himself to check again?

And this is when the tragic opportunity arose? Which could possibly make it as early as 10:05?
And sadly, possibly fit with car that heard at at 10:05hrs...

And that is when all of those incredible pieces of fate collided together... WT, Car, and Abductor seizing an unplanned opportunity??

Previously I have always focused on the just before 10:30 time slot ...

These are just my own thoughts on the matter after going back and reading a few pages of the 1st inquest thread ..

imo unless there was two people one would have to get out of the car,grab William put him in the car and drive off..did the Crabs hear a car door also or a car coming up Beneroon and stopping then going again...and if the 10.05 time is correct what was ps doing at that time ?

 

[interested64]

Good find, SA.

AT TIMES....wow emoji

 

[SLouTh]

imo unless there was two people one would have to get out of the car,grab William put him in the car and drive off..did the Crabs hear a car door also or a car coming up Beneroon and stopping then going again...and if the 10.05 time is correct what was ps doing at that time ?

PS was on the phone at that time ...,
Beaucroft stated same at inquest ...

“Det Beacroft told the court she believes William disappeared between 10.05am and 10.15am. She is asked if that puts Savage inside making a phone call for a portion of the time she believes he would’ve been abducted. She responds yes. @10NewsFirst @10Daily“

as per Lia Harris Live Tweet...

 

[interested64]

Has it been stated by anyone PS's overall health before there is a rush to judgement?
(quote)
The early signs of dementia are very subtle and may not be immediately obvious.
Early symptoms also vary a great deal.

Usually though, people first seem to notice that there is a problem with memory, particularly in remembering recent events.

Memory loss that affects day-to-day function

It's normal to occasionally forget appointments or a friend's phone number and remember them later.

A person with dementia may forget things more often and not remember them at all.

Difficulty performing familiar tasks

People can get distracted from time to time and they may forget to serve part of a meal.

A person with dementia may have trouble with all steps involved in preparing a meal.

Confusion about time and place

It's normal to forget the day of the week - for a moment.

But a person with dementia may have difficulty finding their way to a familiar place, or feel confused about where they are.
Dementia Australia | Warning signs of dementia

he remembered everything that wasnt directly related and couldnt remember the important ones on his time line,even to the point of Heather leaving at 10.37 exactly