Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #50

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  • #241
Does anyone remember what was happening in the case around March 2017?

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

This article states that in May 2017 they got the warrant & LD's


In May, 2017, police had a warrant to tap Mr Savage’s phones and put listening devices inside his home.

Two months later, in a move dubbed the Spider-Man suit strategy, police strategically placed a costume, similar to the one William was wearing when he disappeared, on a bush track Savage frequently walked on.

snip

In November, 2017, Jubelin called Mr Savage from police headquarters at Parramatta and by that point the telephone intercept warrant had expired.

Mr Hogan said Jubelin told another detective to record the call while his phone was on speaker.

In May, 2018, Jubelin used his phone to record two further conversations with Mr Savage at his house.

“It’s the prosecution case that was not a surveillance device that was authorised under the warrant to record that private conversation,” Mr Hogan said.

Then in December that year, Jubelin recorded another conversation with Mr Savage after the 75-year-old called him to complain about the state police had returned his car in.

The car had been seized for forensic examination and there was fingerprint dust left on it.

Jubelin was on leave but went around to his house anyway.

Mr Hogan said by that point, the surveillance device warrant police had obtained was expired.

In his defence, Jubelin claimed during a later police interview, Mr Hogan said, that he was protecting his lawful interests.

That was because Savage had complained about the conditions of a previous police interview – the aircon was too cold and he didn’t have water – and might complain again.

There were also operational reasons, the court heard.

“The crown case is that the lawful interest that Mr Jubelin asserts is not recognised by cases dealt with in the statue,” he said.
 
  • #242
Thanks all, seems obvious when you say it but I just had no clue. Y'all are right, a perpetrator would probably be a bit flighty about finding it.

Maybe not.
If they knew the real suit was a very long time gone. Might encourage them to check the bush around the appearing spiderman suit to check for a seeing eye and return all finds to the police. Turn up the radio to ensure all conversations within the home are muffled.
imo
 
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  • #243
The court also heard a junior officer will testify that Jubelin asked him to make transcripts of the allegedly illegal recordings and pass them off as conversations picked up by the authorised surveillance device in Savage's house.

Covert Strategies Of William Tyrrell Case Investigators Revealed

BBM
If this reporting is correct, then this is a big "ouch" for Jubes ... IMO
Sure, if he wanted to transcribe the interview, and then knowingly "pass them off" as authorised recordings, then he should have done it himself.... not ask a junior to possibly risk their career over it ...
It comes down to ethical decision making ..... and upholding the Police "Code of Conduct"
All Just my opinion ...
However, as we know, the actual reporting is not always accurate.... but I guess we will find out more in the next few days ...
 
  • #244
  • #245
Former detective breached surveillance warrants in William Tyrrell case, court hears

Prosecutor Phil Hogan told Downing Centre Local Court a telephone intercept warrant for Mr Savage's landline and mobile phone was issued in May 2017, along with a surveillance location warrant relating to his home the next day.

The court heard the telephone warrant expired on October 26 and about a week later Mr Jubelin made a recording at police headquarters in Parramatta.

Mr Hogan told the court Mr Jubelin allegedly placed his mobile on speakerphone and instructed a colleague to record the conversation with Mr Savage using that colleague's phone, meaning it was allegedly outside the scope of the warrant.

Mr Hogan alleged Mr Jubelin asked the colleague to prepare a transcript of some of the conversations, but to say they originated from the surveillance devices covered by the warrant.
 
  • #246
BBM
If this reporting is correct, then this is a big "ouch" for Jubes ... IMO
Sure, if he wanted to transcribe the interview, and then knowingly "pass them off" as authorised recordings, then he should have done it himself.... not ask a junior to possibly risk their career over it ...
It comes down to ethical decision making ..... and upholding the Police "Code of Conduct"
All Just my opinion ...
However, as we know, the actual reporting is not always accurate.... but I guess we will find out more in the next few days ...



He alleged Jubelin instructed another officer to record the first call, which Jubelin made from police headquarters using the speaker on the phone.

He allegedly told the officer not to save the recording, but the officer placed it on the computer system.

Two other calls were secretly made on Jubelin's mobile phone at Mr Savage's house, but he later asked the officer to make transcripts of them saying they were under the warrants, Mr Hogan said.

No Cookies | The Cairns Post
Spider-Man suit used in Tyrell probe
 
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  • #247
Is there any information on a statement given by the late HS or confirmation about her attendance at bingo that morning and if so what time she arrived. I find it rather strange even coincidental that PS mentions HS leaving their home only a minute or 2 after WT disappeared.. the timing of that speaks volumes to me.. since HS passing the police have had to rely heavily on PS recall of events that morning prob why GJ recorded the phone calls.. I feel like HS May have been somehow linked to how WT was taken out of the street without anyone seeing him.. perhaps in the boot of the car and then a quick exchange to someone in waiting on Batar Creek Rd.. the timing fits in perfect with the time RC says he saw WT that morning around 10:45.. HS leaves home at 10:35 /10:40 exits the street n passes WT on to a person waiting not too far off then they speed off down the street n passed RC house at 10.45.. I also think that a lot of the secrecy around this case has to do with the judicial system and the way in which previous cases surrounding priests have been dealt with.. after months of searching I discovered information on FA and his past occupation as well as extensive criminal record.. the truth can only be suppressed for so long before it comes out to show the real story..
Former detective breached surveillance warrants in William Tyrrell case, court hears

Prosecutor Phil Hogan told Downing Centre Local Court a telephone intercept warrant for Mr Savage's landline and mobile phone was issued in May 2017, along with a surveillance location warrant relating to his home the next day.

The court heard the telephone warrant expired on October 26 and about a week later Mr Jubelin made a recording at police headquarters in Parramatta.

Mr Hogan told the court Mr Jubelin allegedly placed his mobile on speakerphone and instructed a colleague to record the conversation with Mr Savage using that colleague's phone, meaning it was allegedly outside the scope of the warrant.

Mr Hogan alleged Mr Jubelin asked the colleague to prepare a transcript of some of the conversations, but to say they originated from the surveillance devices covered by the warrant.
 
  • #248
Is there any information on a statement given by the late HS or confirmation about her attendance at bingo that morning and if so what time she arrived. I find it rather strange even coincidental that PS mentions HS leaving their home only a minute or 2 after WT disappeared.. the timing of that speaks volumes to me.. since HS passing the police have had to rely heavily on PS recall of events that morning prob why GJ recorded the phone calls.. I feel like HS May have been somehow linked to how WT was taken out of the street without anyone seeing him.. perhaps in the boot of the car and then a quick exchange to someone in waiting on Batar Creek Rd.. the timing fits in perfect with the time RC says he saw WT that morning around 10:45.. HS leaves home at 10:35 /10:40 exits the street n passes WT on to a person waiting not too far off then they speed off down the street n passed RC house at 10.45.. I also think that a lot of the secrecy around this case has to do with the judicial system and the way in which previous cases surrounding priests have been dealt with.. after months of searching I discovered information on FA and his past occupation as well as extensive criminal record.. the truth can only be suppressed for so long before it comes out to show the real story..

Welcome to the thread... its always great to read a new perspective and thinking on this baffling case!

From my knowledge.... and I could definitely be wrong... I don't think there is a formal statement from HS .... I haven't heard it reported about from the Inquest etc...... and from what we have heard or read from the inquest we don't know if the Bingo alibi was checked .....
I would also love to know the answer to both of those questions ..
 
  • #249
Former detective breached surveillance warrants in William Tyrrell case, court hears

Prosecutor Phil Hogan told Downing Centre Local Court a telephone intercept warrant for Mr Savage's landline and mobile phone was issued in May 2017, along with a surveillance location warrant relating to his home the next day.

The court heard the telephone warrant expired on October 26 and about a week later Mr Jubelin made a recording at police headquarters in Parramatta.

Mr Hogan told the court Mr Jubelin allegedly placed his mobile on speakerphone and instructed a colleague to record the conversation with Mr Savage using that colleague's phone, meaning it was allegedly outside the scope of the warrant.

Mr Hogan alleged Mr Jubelin asked the colleague to prepare a transcript of some of the conversations, but to say they originated from the surveillance devices covered by the warrant.

Interesting, his car was dusted for fingerprints...

How many other neighbors cars were dusted for prints?

"The court heard Mr Jubelin claimed he needed to record the conversations because Mr Savage had previously complained about his treatment during police interviews, including that the air conditioning was too cold and he didn't have access to water.

He had also complained about the state his car was left in after it was examined by police because fingerprint powder wasn't sufficiently cleaned off."
 
  • #250
Interesting, his car was dusted for fingerprints...

How many other neighbors cars were dusted for prints?

"The court heard Mr Jubelin claimed he needed to record the conversations because Mr Savage had previously complained about his treatment during police interviews, including that the air conditioning was too cold and he didn't have access to water.

He had also complained about the state his car was left in after it was examined by police because fingerprint powder wasn't sufficiently cleaned off."
Yes interesting point.....it would be good to know how many cars the Police did check thoroughly...

But wouldn't 2018 be a bit late to be looking for fingerprints???? IMO
And if a person had used their car, in such a high profile case, wouldn't they have sold it long before 2018?? Also IMO
 
  • #251
Yes interesting point.....it would be good to know how many cars the Police did check thoroughly...

But wouldn't 2018 be a bit late to be looking for fingerprints???? IMO
And if a person had used their car, in such a high profile case, wouldn't they have sold it long before 2018?? Also IMO

I don't think it reported when his car was dusted, did it?

Could it have been initially after William went missing in 2014? and he has continued to complain about it along with the other things he was complaining about later mentioned in the article?
 
  • #252
I don't think it reported when his car was dusted, did it?

Could it have been initially after William went missing in 2014? and he has continued to complain about it along with the other things he was complaining about later mentioned in the article?

I read the article as being later in the year of 2018.... the way its written.... earlier in the same article they refer to 2017....

In May, 2018, Jubelin used his phone to record two further conversations with Mr Savage at his house.
“It’s the prosecution case that was not a surveillance device that was authorised under the warrant to record that private conversation,” Mr Hogan said.
Then in December that year, Jubelin recorded another conversation with Mr Savage after the 75-year-old called him to complain about the state police had returned his car in.

The car had been seized for forensic examination and there was fingerprint dust left on it.

However, as in most cases, the reporting is not always accurate ….. sadly
and definitely could be incorrect.....
 
  • #253
Interesting, his car was dusted for fingerprints...

How many other neighbors cars were dusted for prints?

"The court heard Mr Jubelin claimed he needed to record the conversations because Mr Savage had previously complained about his treatment during police interviews, including that the air conditioning was too cold and he didn't have access to water.

He had also complained about the state his car was left in after it was examined by police because fingerprint powder wasn't sufficiently cleaned off."

Yes interesting point.....it would be good to know how many cars the Police did check thoroughly...

But wouldn't 2018 be a bit late to be looking for fingerprints???? IMO
And if a person had used their car, in such a high profile case, wouldn't they have sold it long before 2018?? Also IMO
It seems that PS's vehicle was taken not just for fingerprinting but for 'forensic examination', but not until years later, since the reporting says the vehicle was returned in December 2018. I doubt if police had his vehicle in their custody for four years. That suggests (to me) that none of the neighbours' vehicles had been forensically examined at the time? The fact that police returned the vehicle to PS indicates that nothing was found of W, else they would have kept it as evidence. I believe that even after years, they'd still be able to find something of him in a vehicle during a forensic examination (which is why LE likely bothered to take his vehicle for examination so many years later). imo.

Also, maybe it's just me, but if someone had kidnapped and done something with a neighbour's grandchild in a high profile case and they had their vehicle taken for forensic examination, I don't think they'd be calling to complain about fingerprint dust being left in the vehicle, I'm thinking they would just want to detach themselves as much as possible from the case, period. On the other hand, if a neighbour/person had nothing to do with it and police seized their vehicle years later and then returned it a mess, I think it would be normal to complain. jmo.

In May, 2018, Jubelin used his phone to record two further conversations with Mr Savage at his house.

“It’s the prosecution case that was not a surveillance device that was authorised under the warrant to record that private conversation,” Mr Hogan said.

Then in December that year, Jubelin recorded another conversation with Mr Savage after the 75-year-old called him to complain about the state police had returned his car in.

The car had been seized for forensic examination and there was fingerprint dust left on it.

Jubelin was on leave but went around to his house anyway.


We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
 
  • #254
Lets hope Cunneen is successful in getting the details released!

"Jubelin’s defence barrister Margaret Cunneen strongly opposed the application, telling the court the full facts should be aired to ensure a fair trial.


She also said Jubelin’s alleged offences would “seem a lot worse” if the details were kept from the public, and he would be blamed for the failure of the police investigation."

Covert Strategies Of William Tyrrell Case Investigators Revealed

It already seems like we are learning more about the case in 2 days than the inquest...….
 
  • #255
In regard to Jubelin's idea of planting the Spiderman costume along the regular path that PS walked every day - this is what I'm wondering, as far as the strategy behind it: I wonder if GJ noticed that PS's memory had been failing somewhat and he was forgetting details, etc. So he thought maybe if they planted the costume there, PS (if he had been the one to have done something to W) might forget what he'd done with the costume, see it there, and think, 'OMG, I forgot to dispose of it, I'd better grab it and burn it!'

Crown prosecutor Philip Hogan said police placed a Spider-Man suit similar to the one William was wearing onto a bush track on July 26, 2017.

The track was frequented by Paul Savage, who had become a person of interest in the case four months earlier. Mr Savage lived on Benaroon Drive in Kendall, the street William vanished from, and was at home on the morning the child disappeared.

Mr Hogan said cameras filmed and photographed Mr Savage, 75, who reported the clothing to police the next day.


https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...t-in-bushland-court-told-20200204-p53xlj.html
---
Jubelin had come up with the idea of placing the Spider-Man suit in the bush, she said.

No Cookies | The Cairns Post
 
  • #256
Well I guess we now know the relevance of the 'loud radio playing' in PS's house? (Or not?) Hadn't they been asking neighbours if they'd heard a loud radio in PS's house on the morning W disappeared, ie when AMS went to his door? LE knew PS was playing it loudly during their surveillance of him some 3 years later in 2017.. so what would be the relevance of asking if the same occurred when W disappeared? Did they think he had it loud in 2017 because W was still alive in the house making noise after 3 years? Did they think PS was making phonecalls to others to discuss taking W? I wonder what the thinking was, surrounding that?

Detective Sergeant Laura Beacroft, who was part of the investigation into William's disappearance, said further inquiries took place into Mr Savage after he became a person of interest in March 2017.

This included "numerous strategies devised to evoke some sort of reaction" from Mr Savage.

Tracking and listening devices, cameras and surveillance operatives using hand-held devices were used.

"One of the issues was Mr Savage had a habit of listening to his radio very loudly" while static also was a problem in making audio recordings, she said.


No Cookies | The Cairns Post
 
  • #257
Well I guess we now know the relevance of the 'loud radio playing' in PS's house? (Or not?) Hadn't they been asking neighbours if they'd heard a loud radio in PS's house on the morning W disappeared, ie when AMS went to his door? LE knew PS was playing it loudly during their surveillance of him some 3 years later in 2017.. so what would be the relevance of asking if the same occurred when W disappeared? Did they think he had it loud in 2017 because W was still alive in the house making noise after 3 years? Did they think PS was making phonecalls to others to discuss taking W? I wonder what the thinking was, surrounding that?

Detective Sergeant Laura Beacroft, who was part of the investigation into William's disappearance, said further inquiries took place into Mr Savage after he became a person of interest in March 2017.

This included "numerous strategies devised to evoke some sort of reaction" from Mr Savage.

Tracking and listening devices, cameras and surveillance operatives using hand-held devices were used.

"One of the issues was Mr Savage had a habit of listening to his radio very loudly" while static also was a problem in making audio recordings, she said.


No Cookies | The Cairns Post
This was my first thought after reading the article too..... were the "Radio questions at the inquest" related to this ???? I would say yes …. IMO

I'm happy to give him (Savage) the benefit of the doubt - that he may suffer from some deafness at his age....... IMO
 
  • #258
  • #259
This was my first thought after reading the article too..... were the "Radio questions at the inquest" related to this ???? I would say yes …. IMO

I'm happy to give him (Savage) the benefit of the doubt - that he may suffer from some deafness at his age....... IMO
Yes, me too. But what were they thinking - from 2017 when the loud radio was interfering with their surveillance until 2019 when the inquest questioning occurred surrounding whether the music was loud on the day W disappeared?
 
  • #260
Maybe not.
If they knew the real suit was a very long time gone. Might encourage them to check the bush around the appearing spiderman suit to check for a seeing eye and return all finds to the police. Turn up the radio to ensure all conversations within the home are muffled.
imo

I wonder if he reported finding the Spiderman suit at the same time as he handed in one of the cameras.
"Here's your Spiderman suit, and here's your camera."
He definitely knew there was at least one camera out there in the bush.


BBM
Detective Sergeant Laura Beacroft, of the Sex Crimes Unit, told the court that the strike force “started looking” at Mr Savage as a possible “person of interest” in March 2017.
She said covert cameras were “installed in the bushland, surrounding (Mr Savage’s) property, and within the residence, on this person’s property.”
She said Mr Savage had found one of the cameras in the bush, and returned it to police.

NoCookies | The Australian
Gary Jubelin trial: Spider-Man costume a test in William Tyrrell hunt
FEBRUARY 4, 2020
 
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