Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #50

[drsleuth]

DrSleuth, did you notice whether PS has aversion to using William's name? It's looking that way to me from the tweets.

Yeah he mainly called him " the boy" "the kid" "little fella" " bugger " etc. I can't recall him actually calling him William......

 

[drsleuth]

Lia Harris
The Crown asked Det Sgt Beacroft about what she said to Jubelin while Savage was out of the room. She said she told Jubelin she didn’t think Savage was responsible for William’s disappearance. She also said she didn’t think he saw the Spider-Man suit the day before he reported it

 

[Freddo Frog]

from your link

Further delaying the hearing was the fact an assistant commissioner needed to sign a statement about secret evidence, the court heard.
Finding such a senior officer without a conflict of interest to Jubelin was taking time, Mr Bhalla said, describing the roadblock as an "unusual situation".

This is probably a very dumb question.
Is that anyone of the NSW Police assistant commissioners that can sign the required statement? Or is there just one NSW Police assistant commissioner that was/is able or responsible for signing documents to do with secret evidence?

I know the matter has been resolved, but a quick look through the organisational structure of the NSWPS shows me that there would be very few branches that Jubelin would not have had professional relations with in one manner or the other throughout his career. I wonder if it was more of a "I don't want any part of it" from hierarchy? But yes, you would think that there would be someone who could sign off, even it was the Commissioner himself.

Organisational Structure - NSW Police Public Site

 

[Freddo Frog]

Tweet by Jamie McKinnell @jamie86:

Part of what police are attempting to non-pub is a "covert strategy", but the court is told many police techniques are known to the public. Court is referred to a Qld Supreme Court judgment referencing Daniel Morcombe's killer Cowan - brought down by a "Mr Big" sting operation.

If the suppression is related to a covert strategy that is going to lead to an arrest in WT's case then I would rather wait and hear about it during that person's trial, not before I guess.

 

[peekinandy]

If the suppression is related to a covert strategy that is going to lead to an arrest in WT's case then I would rather wait and hear about it during that person's trial, not before I guess.

Maybe there's nothing in them. I can't imagine Jubes wanting to ruin it for William?

By nothing I don't mean nothing - but maybe nothing that will hurt the case?

 

[drsleuth]

This is an old article describing this interview that is now being played as "deeply troubling"

Details of ‘deeply troubling’ police grilling of Tyrrell person of interest

From August 20, 20197

Detectives probing the disappearance of toddler William Tyrrell were unusually fixated on a pensioner living across the road, it has emerged.

Detectives probing the disappearance of William Tyrrell were so fixated on a pensioner living metres from where the toddler went missing that they mapped his daily early morning walk.

On an aerial map of the stroll taken by Paul Savage each day, including the one on which William vanished, police charted his steps in a dotted red line.

The walk taken by Mr Savage, then aged 70 on September 12, 2014, shows he left his house — marked on the map with a giant red arrow — on Benaroon Drive, Kendall, opposite William’s foster grandmother’s home, and then went up a fire trail.

The detailed graphic showing Mr Savage’s journey around the village of Benaroon Drive in the tiny NSW Mid North Coast town of Kendall, presented at the Tyrrell inquest today, was almost like a scene out of the TV show Midsomer Murders.

 

[Freddo Frog]

Maybe there's nothing in them. I can't imagine Jubes wanting to ruin it for William?

By nothing I don't mean nothing - but maybe nothing that will hurt the case?

That, too, I was just trying to consider other ideas.

 

[drsleuth]

I think it's lunch break now, should be back 2pm

 

[Freddo Frog]

Mr Jubelin, 57, who is one of Australia’s best known homicide detectives, has been accused of misconduct in his handling of the investigation into the disappearance of a three-year-old foster child, William Tyrrell.

Senior police believe he may have been abducted by a paedophile, or a paedophile ring.

Police now say the case against Mr Jubelin, who led the investigation for four years, must be heard in secret, lest it derail the work being done to find William.

NSW Police still believe that William can be found, or else that the perpetrator can be brought to justice.

Counsel for the Commissioner, Rod Bhalla, agreed in court that his application for total secrecy was “deeply unfortunate.”

“It is not a happy state of affairs, but we are where we are,” Mr Bhalla said.

“The commissioner doesn’t take lightly on the principle of open justice. It is an important principle. But it is necessary (to close the court) in this case.”

The court was told that the public may well be “outraged” by the level of child sex activity in the community, but this was no reason to suppress the statistics.

Gary Jubelin trial: Public would be ‘outraged’ to know how many sex offenders in the community
NoCookies | The Australian

Bolded by me - I wonder if this is just the reporter's addition to the article or if it was stated at Jubelin's trial. I thought there was a statement at one time saying it was opportunistic and not a paedophile/ring abduction, or has that been opinions couched as fact by reporters? It can be so hard to keep up with at times.

 

[Freddo Frog]

if he was involved - maybe he'd be less inclined to report it? just a hunch - MOO

edit to add - just so he doesn't call more attention to himself perhaps?

That was my first thought when I read about it this morning, and then the same as your edited add.

Just a general question in case I missed it, when was the plant of the costume made? If it was in 2017, when Savage supposedly became a suspect, wouldn't it have been a bit grotty and torn if it was meant to be William's, who disappeared years earlier? I wonder if they 'aged' it to look like it had been there a while ago.

 

[peekinandy]

That was my first thought when I read about it this morning, and then the same as your edited add.

Just a general question in case I missed it, when was the plant of the costume made? If it was in 2017, when Savage supposedly became a suspect, wouldn't it have been a bit grotty and torn if it was meant to be William's, who disappeared years earlier? I wonder if they 'aged' it to look like it had been there a while ago.

I imagine they would have aged it?? I can't remember the dates but someone will

edit to add - July 2017

 

[drsleuth]

That was my first thought when I read about it this morning, and then the same as your edited add.

Just a general question in case I missed it, when was the plant of the costume made? If it was in 2017, when Savage supposedly became a suspect, wouldn't it have been a bit grotty and torn if it was meant to be William's, who disappeared years earlier? I wonder if they 'aged' it to look like it had been there a while ago.

BBM : 26th July 2017, which was before PS had any "formal" interview.

He had given 2 statements : 25/9/2014
16/03/2016

Formal interviews were 16/08/2017 ( the video interview with Jubes, approx 4hrs long )
12/09/2017 Video walkthru interview with Laura Beacroft

 

[JLZ]

That was my first thought when I read about it this morning, and then the same as your edited add.

Just a general question in case I missed it, when was the plant of the costume made? If it was in 2017, when Savage supposedly became a suspect, wouldn't it have been a bit grotty and torn if it was meant to be William's, who disappeared years earlier? I wonder if they 'aged' it to look like it had been there a while ago.

July 2017 according to ABC article today. I agree, it had to look like it wasn't an obvious hoax.

 

[peekinandy]

deleted

 

[Freddo Frog]

To see if it was a habit maybe? Or only something new he has taken up (suspecting his house is bugged)? I have to say, it isn't that uncommon for a chap his age to listen loudly to talkback. My FIL does it. Jones and Hadley for all the world to hear (even if they don't want to).

In the early stages of my dad's alzheimers he often played the radio loud to 'drown out the voices' in his head. Didn't someone suggest PS has dementia or something?

 

[sosocurious]

Lia Harris
Jubelin asks Savage about a camera he found in a tree near his house. Savage told him he found the camera, took it off the tree and took it inside his house. He kept it there until police came some days later and he gave it to them. Jubelin is asking him why he did that.

“Did you think to let police know you’d taken one of our cameras?” Jubelin asks.

How long before or after the spiderman suit was planted along the walking track did PS find the camera in the tree?

 

[Freddo Frog]

Just a few thoughts based on some of the posts here...

If you know that a child had been abducted in an area near your house and you saw trail cameras fixed to trees in an area where that child could possibly have gone missing, would you not leave them alone, knowing they were there to try and find him or evidence?

The seeming aversion to calling William by his first name by PS is troubling to me. It sounds like he is trying to disassociate himself with William. On on the other hand, if he has some kind of cognitive issue then I could understand him not remembering (keep in mind I am not sure if he has alzheimers or the like). EDIT TO ADD - the reference to him as a 'bugger' is what caused me to question him, even though I know it is something many people of his generation used to refer to 'naughty' or 'unfortunate' kids; "I feel sorry for the poor bugger" or "That's the little bugger who stole my milk bottle."

HS leaving soon after William went missing and passing him on to someone else (my apologies, there was a new poster who posted that theory upthread and I cannot recall their name) could be plausible. If PS was annoyed by his alleged rebuffing of 'friendship' by the FGM and the noise the children were making, that COULD signal some kind of motivation to act on William.

I am still not 100% sold on PS being the perpetrator yet, but heck, this information coming out from Jubelin's trial is very hard to discount and is not looking good for him. I still want to know why the focus was on Spedding for so long and not on PS. Tactics? Birds of a feather? Change of focus?

 

[drsleuth]

Did he find the camera in the tree before the spiderman suit was planted along the walking track?

Not sure Soso ?

Good observation skills to see a camera in bushes / trees.

Shame he was not more observant on the morning of the 12/9/2014

 

[drsleuth]

In the early stages of my dad's alzheimers he often played the radio loud to 'drown out the voices' in his head. Didn't someone suggest PS has dementia or something?

There has been no mention of PS having any disease of the mind ( ie dementia ,Alzheimer's disease ) . Only, his legal team saying his memory now is not as good as it was 5yrs ago.

 

[Chrissy74]

BBM : PS may come across to some as an aged , frail, grieving & forgetful widow.

IMO he is anything but. He is rat cunning & plays his cards well

Just from what I observed of him in Taree over 3-4 days.

There is a reason why Jubes ( & Laura ) are interested in him IMO

I completely agree with you.. His scent is covered in RAT.... I also can’t help my occasional frustration over some of Sargent Beecrofts comments/opinions.... That she didn’t believe PS had something to do with WT disappearance that morning and was obviously apprehensive about GJ doing his job whichever way he saw fit and that in her opinion RC should be considered a reliable witness as he was known for being a likeable trustworthy man in the Kendall community. Me’s thinks that RC testimony is up Batar Creek Rd so to speak.. what normal person in their right mind with such time ticking crucial information wouldn’t walk straight into the police department and offload but no not RC he believed that the police were eventually going to make their way over to him and request from him the details of his supposed sighting.. oh yeh but should the police take their precious time in paying him a visit that’s not a worry coz he’ll just pass the word on from person to person in hope the wind blows it straight through police doors.. too many elderly with too much time on their hands and too many pedophiles..