Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

[Tinker Taylor]

Though, we are speaking of a young child here. A little girl who tried to explain what she saw in the best words she could find.

William was watching for daddy, ran to a vehicle that resembled daddy's new vehicle.

His sister may have been unsure if that was daddy's vehicle (being a little older) so hung back.

I remember the words 'William was lifted by his shoulders and placed in the vehicle'. Who was it who said that... Jubes or foster mum? Someone who had an idea of what may have happened IMO.

Well, I looked at both vehicles and they are similar enough to fool a 3yo IMO. Sister may have been further away, when William ran up to the car. The expression "lifted by his shoulders" is a funny thing for an adult to say, you would think maybe by the upper arms or under the arms. Was it sister who saw him taken and it was her description of how he was lifted? Was this the "fawn-coloured four-wheel drive", seen tearing down a street by the man waiting for a delivery? It would be interesting to see if Mr Chapman has been shown 4wd models and colours and asked to identify a similar vehicle.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

double again!

what happens is the first does not get posted and when you press send again, it sends two.

 

[bearbear]

I am just wondering how we know PS's bro was all packed up and ready to go home? I don't believe we have been told the details of PS's phone conversation with his bro early that day. Is it not possible he may have said he's not quite sure yet if/when he will be released to go home by his doc, but perhaps PS said he'd come anyway? The conversation really could've been anything. And we found out during this trial IIRC, that there in fact was a later phonecall that same day, I think around 4pm if I'm not mistaken? Maybe the bro got out, maybe he had to stay another day or so, maybe he had other offers to pick him up and take him home, etc. imo.

plus it may have just been a casual arrangement, a
'maybe, not sure yet, dont wait around for me if im not there'plan and he was sidetracked by all the excitement in the street, possibly enjoying being amongst it

 

[peekinandy]

Well, I looked at both vehicles and they are similar enough to fool a 3yo IMO. Sister may have been further away, when William ran up to the car. The expression "lifted by his shoulders" is a funny thing for an adult to say, you would think maybe by the upper arms or under the arms. Was it sister who saw him taken and it was her description of how he was lifted? Was this the "fawn-coloured four-wheel drive", seen tearing down a street by the man waiting for a delivery? It would be interesting to see if Mr Chapman has been shown 4wd models and colours and asked to identify a similar vehicle.

But his FF's car is green/grey isn't it? Do we know who saw the fawn coloured one? I heard it very early on... you'd think if someone saw the fawn vehicle they would have been asked to testify? or is that coming?

edit to add - given it's a new car, I wonder what colour FF's car was previously?

 

[Tinker Taylor]

But his FF's car is green/grey isn't it? Do we know who saw the fawn coloured one? I heard it very early on... you'd think if someone saw the fawn vehicle they would have been asked to testify? or is that coming?

edit to add - given it's a new car, I wonder what colour FF's car was previously?

I'd like to know what type and colour vehicle Ms Toller drives.

 

[peekinandy]

O/T - the trial for Robert Durst is about to begin in the USA. If you love a good true crime doco & haven't seen 'the Jinx - the life and deaths of Robert Durst' it regularly pops up in the 'top 10' for this genre. Is fascinating! Can be viewed on youtube. There is an article on nine news about it - can't copy it for some reason

 

[interested64]

I am just wondering how we know PS's bro was all packed up and ready to go home? I don't believe we have been told the details of PS's phone conversation with his bro early that day. Is it not possible he may have said he's not quite sure yet if/when he will be released to go home by his doc, but perhaps PS said he'd come anyway? The conversation really could've been anything. And we found out during this trial IIRC, that there in fact was a later phonecall that same day, I think around 4pm if I'm not mistaken? Maybe the bro got out, maybe he had to stay another day or so, maybe he had other offers to pick him up and take him home, etc. imo.

Didnt he say he was packing his bags while listening to music

 

[peekinandy]

Something that worries me - is if PS was so distracted by the activity in the street, why did he look for a little while, then go home have a cup of tea... then no-one knows what he did for the next two hours? It's a bit strange...
edit typo

 

[bearbear]

what a nightmare!...
Jubelin told the court this week the full ramifications of William’s disappearance weren’t initially appreciated before he started.

“I was concerned the highest profile investigation in the state didn’t have an investigation plan five months down the track,” he said.

“A plan outlines the circumstances of which the crime occurred, strategy and directions and how the investigation should be approached.”

More than 1000 “products”, bits of information generated from listening devices, intelligence or other research, hadn’t been reviewed either, he said.

This information backlog became an ongoing issue for the investigation

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[Karinna]

dbm

 

[Karinna]

Well, I looked at both vehicles and they are similar enough to fool a 3yo IMO. Sister may have been further away, when William ran up to the car. The expression "lifted by his shoulders" is a funny thing for an adult to say, you would think maybe by the upper arms or under the arms. Was it sister who saw him taken and it was her description of how he was lifted? Was this the "fawn-coloured four-wheel drive", seen tearing down a street by the man waiting for a delivery? It would be interesting to see if Mr Chapman has been shown 4wd models and colours and asked to identify a similar vehicle.

FFC had a "vision"
(quote)
In an interview released by NSW police, William's foster mum says: "I had a vision in my head. I don't know why, but I had a vision in my head, somebody... I can't explain it. Somebody reached over, and I sort of feel like they've sort of gone 'clump' on his shoulders, picked him up and moved him on. Because to me that's the only way I can explain for him not to be there..."
"He wasn't just roaring. He was roaring at someone." What happened on the day William Tyrrell disappeared.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The problem I have with PS being a POI is that it took three years for him to even appear on their radar..
surely if he was a viable suspect, there would have been red flags raised a lot earlier.
I hope he is not being made a scapegoat, to me the “ evidence” against him seems flimsy at best.

This is an unusual investigation though, it's not a domestic or crime syndicate type of situation. A 3 yr old boy visiting FGM is taken in broad daylight, someone is responsible, a passerby (in a dead end street?), a neighbour/friend, a person entering street for a specific reason but left with William, it's open for a wide net to be thrown. There's no body for forensics, this is an enormous task to undertake. The Beaumont children haven't been found after all these years.

Jubelin has looked at it from every angle he can, he says it was opportunistic, he's gone over the records kept, rechecking accounts and when something doesn't add up or make sense, it needs further investigation.
Once he began talking to PS, it became clear something was amiss, giving up wasn't an option for Jubelin. There are red flags with PS, imo. We've gone through them of what we know, there's more we don't know, he's a cagey person and in Jubelin's opinion, irrational. It could've been an accident and covered up.
If William is deceased and his remains are found, was it close or far, was the site significant to the perp? It will close the net on whoever is responsible, imo.

 

[peekinandy]

This is an unusual investigation though, it's not a domestic or crime syndicate type of situation. A 3 yr old boy visiting FGM is taken in broad daylight, someone is responsible, a passerby (in a dead end street?), a neighbour/friend, a person entering street for a specific reason but left with William, it's open for a wide net to be thrown. There's no body for forensics, this is an enormous task to undertake. The Beaumont children haven't been found after all these years.

Jubelin has looked at it from every angle he can, he says it was opportunistic, he's gone over the records kept, rechecking accounts and when something doesn't add up or make sense, it needs further investigation.
Once he began talking to PS, it became clear something was amiss, giving up wasn't an option for Jubelin. There are red flags with PS, imo. We've gone through them of what we know, there's more we don't know, he's a cagey person and in Jubelin's opinion, irrational. It could've been an accident and covered up.
If William is deceased and his remains are found, was it close or far, was the site significant to the perp? It will close the net on whoever is responsible, imo.

We are only getting Jubelin's opinion to a certain point... we don't know what happened after the recordings

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'd like to know what type and colour vehicle Ms Toller drives.

Her work or private vehicle?

 

[Karinna]

This is an unusual investigation though, it's not a domestic or crime syndicate type of situation. A 3 yr old boy visiting FGM is taken in broad daylight, someone is responsible, a passerby (in a dead end street?), a neighbour/friend, a person entering street for a specific reason but left with William, it's open for a wide net to be thrown. There's no body for forensics, this is an enormous task to undertake. The Beaumont children haven't been found after all these years.

Jubelin has looked at it from every angle he can, he says it was opportunistic, he's gone over the records kept, rechecking accounts and when something doesn't add up or make sense, it needs further investigation.
Once he began talking to PS, it became clear something was amiss, giving up wasn't an option for Jubelin. There are red flags with PS, imo. We've gone through them of what we know, there's more we don't know, he's a cagey person and in Jubelin's opinion, irrational. It could've been an accident and covered up.
If William is deceased and his remains are found, was it close or far, was the site significant to the perp? It will close the net on whoever is responsible, imo.

GJ had said in court himself there is nothing to go on with this case, no Forensics, and no witnesses that seen what happened.
And accusing an elderly man a few years after the fact didn't go anywhere either. Who is making the allegations against PS being the character he has been accused of being? And on what grounds? We have read PS was mentally unhinged and has some issues about mental illness. Is that a professional medical opinion?
And GJ in investigating PS has claimed mental issues with PS as well. So under that circumstance he is telling PS he is a liar. Really? If the man has some form of dementia/mental illness can anyone accuse him of being a liar when he is not acting in a normal capacity? A person that is mentally unwell can't be held responsible for their actions under those circumstances, because they have diminished capacity. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Her work or private vehicle?

Mail contractors usually have a vehicle that does for both.

 

[peekinandy]

GJ had said in court himself there is nothing to go on with this case, no Forensics, and no witnesses that seen what happened.
And accusing an elderly man a few years after the fact didn't go anywhere either. Who is making the allegations against PS being the character he has been accused of being? And on what grounds? We have read PS was mentally unhinged and has some issues about mental illness. Is that a professional medical opinion?
And GJ in investigating PS has claimed mental issues with PS as well. So under that circumstance he is telling PS he is a liar. Really? If the man has some form of dementia/mental illness can anyone accuse him of being a liar when he is not acting in a normal capacity? A person that is mentally unwell can't be held responsible for their actions under those circumstances, because they have diminished capacity. You can't have it both ways.

It's very very difficult to get off on an insanity charge - other than that, mental ill health just doesn't cut it...

edit to add - that was quite americanised lol. But you'd have to be seriously unwell mentally to get off - in other words. He doesn't seem to be seriously mentally unwell... like psychotic - to me. Agree he needs a psych evaluation.. but...

edit to add again psychotic is not the same as delusional. Delusions can manifest with a personality disorder IMO

 

[deugirtni]

double again!

what happens is the first does not get posted and when you press send again, it sends two.

It's because WS seems to often be terribly terribly lagged and slow lately. Don't press 'enter/send' twice. It just takes a bit for it to go. If it's possible for you to open up another browser page, you could check to see if it posted. imo.

 

[Whàngarei]

Do you mean connections between PS and others?

Yes

 

[Whàngarei]

Something that worries me - is if PS was so distracted by the activity in the street, why did he look for a little while, then go home have a cup of tea... then no-one knows what he did for the next two hours? It's a bit strange...
edit typo

For all we know he lay down and had a sleep.