Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

[JLZ]

Isn't the FM a good source?

If one or several people living in the next street spoke to doorknocking police and said, the postie delivered at 9.45am, wouldn't that establish her time in Benaroon Drive? It'd be easy to verify where she was, she's a potential witness, her timing would be of paramount importance because her usual delivery time is 10-10.30 am.
My postie usually comes between 10 am - 11am, but on occasion has come at 8.30am or as late as, 2.30pm.

BBM Yes she would be, and her account of the morning is detailed and helpful, but I don't remember her giving actual times about that part of the morning.

Maybe they have verified the time postie was at Benaroon, but for some reason it hasn't been released. If the car heard by the Crabbs wasn't postie, there's an unaccounted-for person driving up that end of the street in a stop-start fashion; there's a good chance that person took William, as opposed to some alternative hypotheses such as that he was taken in a northerly direction initially on foot.

 

[interested64]

I hear what your saying but i think savage is a better liar than what we’d like to believe. Truth is savage may not have even been home when heather left or just got home as she was leaving n that’s why the time stuck in his mind. He may have come back from his walk realised the postie came early n was pissed off. His behaviour is unpredictable. I think he likes everyone to think he’s just your average friendly next door neighbour but there’s stuff that runs deep there and that has shown itself more and more of late. No body in the street saw anything out of the ordinary. Why? Because nothing was out of the ordinary. Whoever took William lived in that street and that’s why nothing looked suspicious

yes maybe he did leave earlier to get the mail before he went away,he may not of wanted heather getting it as she may not want to show herself collecting mail..didnt GJ ask about something being covered in the back of a car..i also dont believe he got lost at all

 

[KateM]

What about the high pitched scream fm heard minutes after realising William was missing. The scream was heard whilst she was looking in an area where the grass was long. Fm also says the scream was high pitched and “muffled”, which would be the case if after the scream wt mouth may have been covered with a persons hand to prevent any further sound. IF it was wt she heard scream that morning then that would suggest he was taken from the area he was playing and taken up the trail through the forest and perhaps past the cemetery. I wonder if that trail is visible from the Crabbs or Miller’s house as they were in their backyards when all this happened?

Is that the scream she failed to mention in the 60 Minutes interview?

 

[interested64]

Sounds to me like PS stirred things up in that street. I have no idea what he's capable of but he deserved scrutiny. He's lived there for 12 yrs and on that particular day got lost on a walk he'd taken nearly every day? The 2 hours after he saw the suit is unaccounted for too?

Did PS witness something crucial but he's too ashamed to reveal it now because he didn't when WT was taken. Was he too concerned about the postie, the AVO and police involvement?
Hit and runs happen frequently, a cover up for a small child isn't an outlandish idea, but why did WT run down to PS's area in the first place? Did WT have a ball outside on that day and it rolled down the road?

The other candidates are the handyman who turns up unannounced, they've done a job there before and were in the area so popped round. This person could've taken WT without anyone knowing. Those handymen who've worked there or associate with known paedophiles who also do handman work, they're probably the most likely, imo.

and we know el creepy guy Abbott in the caravan had earlier threatened a witness about his previous case..

 

[JLZ]

But have they actually said that she did the deliveries that day?? Or have I missed that??
She could have been off sick and someone else filled in, for example, etc etc....

I was thinking the other way around, since I thought she wasn't working that street any more, that perhaps the new regular was sick and PS's victim filled in as an emergency. But like you I don't know whether it's the same postie in question, who was harassed by PS and also delivered to Benaroon that day.

 

[JLZ]

and we know el creepy guy Abbott in the caravan had earlier threatened a witness about his previous case..

Was that someone present or someone he'd confessed/boasted to?

 

[interested64]

Was that someone present or someone he'd confessed/boasted to?

someone he confessed to i think it was

 

[Chrissy74]

QUOTE="JLZ, post: 15868793, member: 117137"]Was that someone present or someone he'd confessed/boasted to?[/QUOTE]
That’s right I do recall reading that. Abbott is in his early 80’s now isn’t he? How much hurt can he inflict on another at that age. Maybe he has connections.. and if it was Abbott then how would he have known William was there that morning and that there were moments when he was playing out of sight of his fm? To me that’s saying Abbott was informed of the potential to abduct and not be seen or get caught

 

[JLZ]

someone he confessed to i think it was

Seems to make a difference, but that's just my feeling. Anyway if FA is responsible, he's kept his mouth shut this time apparently. But perhaps he learned his lesson.

I don't think PS has been threatened. That if he was withholding something for that reason, GJ's pressure would have broken through his silence. And when would he have been threatened? Wouldn't it have taken more than a moment stopping before taking off with William to make it credible?--but then (edit: if it was later) how to explain PS not having done something about the abduction right away? Where is FA now anyway, isn't he in gaol?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I’m trying to keep an open mind and look at the possibilities from every angle but they somehow all seem to lead back to Paul Savage. I don’t believe for a second that William was snatched by a random person who just happened to be there at that precise time n decided to take a chance. This was planned. Someone watched and waited for the perfect moment when no one else was around. They would have known Judy Wilson wasn’t home they would have known the Millers were away they would have had some idea who was at work and who was at home that day. And I don’t believe that heather left for bingo that morning at 10:37 because both she and Paul would have heard some sort of commotion coming from right across the street.. the only car that exited the street that morning the same time as the disappearance was apparently heathers. I just doesn’t add up to me

Imagine, PS saw the postie something doing, he knew about in advance or didn't know. Because "he loved her", he wouldn't say a word perhaps. Nobody knows, why postie was visiting the same address 2 days before. If there hadn't been a missing or abducted child days after the visit, it wouldn't be important of course.

 

[Chrissy74]

BBM Yes she would be, and her account of the morning is detailed and helpful, but I don't remember her giving actual times about that part of the morning.

Maybe they have verified the time postie was at Benaroon, but for some reason it hasn't been released. If the car heard by the Crabbs wasn't postie, there's an unaccounted-for person driving up that end of the street in a stop-start fashion; there's a good chance that person took William, as opposed to some alternative hypotheses such as that he was taken in a northerly direction initially on foot.

What about if the car that the Crabbs say they heard drive up no 48 driveway then do a u turn was the same car fm saw that morning that drove into next doors driveway reverse and drive back out. The 2 accounts of a car doing almost identical things may very well have been just the 1 car at the one time which may have been closer to 9:30? That just seems to make more sense to me

 

[Blues Clues]

sounded exactly like the postman. There's the rub, there are vehicles that sound like the postie's. There's often a discrepancy with what we hear and what is true, I've heard vehicles drive up my road and swore it was one of the neighbours, but on inspection it wasn't, it just 'sounded' like their vehicle.

The postie would be easy to eliminate, they delivered mail in other streets before FGM's part of the street, there would be dozens or more people that would've seen the postie, not just heard the sound of the vehicle. Unless, there's a suggestion the postie waited somewhere to enter the street after 10am?

It's been established by the police, the postie came into the street BEFORE 10 am. Whether it was 10 minutes or more earlier, we don't as yet know, if it were important, we'd hear about it, imo.

That's right 'sounded' exactly like the postman.

It could have been another vehicle or it could have been the postie - anything's possible. The fact the officer-in-charge of the case, Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert, said he thought the postie should be investigated as recently as Aug 2018, suggests the postie had not being eliminated to his satisfaction.
Detective Sgt Beacroft thought it was far fetched and yet she is using the time they heard the car 10.05am as the time William was taken. If the postie had been eliminated 100% would she say she thought the idea was far fetched or would she say 'no it couldn't have been the posties car'?

 

[interested64]

QUOTE="JLZ, post: 15868793, member: 117137"]Was that someone present or someone he'd confessed/boasted to?

That’s right I do recall reading that. Abbott is in his early 80’s now isn’t he? How much hurt can he inflict on another at that age. Maybe he has connections.. and if it was Abbott then how would he have known William was there that morning and that there were moments when he was playing out of sight of his fm? To me that’s saying Abbott was informed of the potential to abduct and not be seen or get caught[/QUOTE]
i have wondered if he came with GO that morning,but to me i have always thought 2 in a car for grabbing a boy fast,or the car would have had to of been in the street longer by the time the driver got out etc

 

[JLZ]

What about if the car that the Crabbs say they heard drive up no 48 driveway then do a u turn was the same car fm saw that morning that drove into next doors driveway reverse and drive back out. The 2 accounts of a car doing almost identical things may very well have been just the 1 car at the one time which may have been closer to 9:30? That just seems to make more sense to me

I've read varying accounts of FFC's time for that car, either about 9 or close to 10:30. You'd think she'd remember if it was 9:30-ish as that was when she was taking photographs. If it was shortly before William vanished which she later mistakenly assumed was just before 10:30, it could have been the same car IMO, except that the Millers' driveway isn't gravel. However the sound might have come from the loose edge of the road?

 

[drsleuth]

“The NSW government has announced it will not support reforms that could have paved the way for a retrial of the man accused of murdering three Bowraville children, in what the family member of a victim has described as a "kick in the guts".”

“One family member, Michelle Jarrett, said a similar reward announced in 2016 in relation to the William Tyrrell disappearance had not helped that case.
"Has it done anything for William Tyrrell? Why not $3 million? If we went to court they would split them [the cases] up then, but when it's time for a reward they put it into one," the aunt of Evelyn Greenup, said.”
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/na...orms-for-bowraville-case-20200226-p544nj.html

Those poor families, they will never give up

 

[JLZ]

Imagine, PS saw the postie something doing, he knew about in advance or didn't know. Because "he loved her", he wouldn't say a word perhaps. Nobody knows, why postie was visiting the same address 2 days before. If there hadn't been a missing or abducted child days after the visit, it wouldn't be important of course.

I'd be more suspicious if he'd afterwards formed a close relationship with postie (blackmail).

 

[Chrissy74]

That's right 'sounded' exactly like the postman.

It could have been another vehicle or it could have been the postie - anything's possible. The fact the officer-in-charge of the case, Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert, said he thought the postie should be investigated as recently as Aug 2018, suggests the postie had not being eliminated to his satisfaction.
Detective Sgt Beacroft thought it was far fetched and yet she is using the time they heard the car 10.05am as the time William was taken. If the postie had been eliminated 100% would she say she thought the idea was far fetched or would she say 'no it couldn't have been the posties car'?

I agree. I’m surprised postie wasn’t on the top of the list to begin with seeing that the posties car was mentioned as being heard that morning by more than one witness in their testimony. For sure that’s a red flag and I mentioned my thoughts on that in earlier posts. What do we know about the postie? Not much. Only that she was afraid of ps and had an avo on him but then I was shocked when ps says to GJ as heard on one of the taped conversations that postie said she was in love with him. Is he delusional or was there some truth to it? Maybe she like to play mind games who knows. Going on times though if fm tells William to go see if daddy’s home and ff texted fm when he was 5min away then I would put the time wt went missing closer to 10:20/10:30 latest. It wouldn’t make sense that fm would expect William to be waiting any longer than a few minutes for dad to arrive home. So that’s a very small timeframe to take William and very few people with that opportunity

 

[Blues Clues]

What about if the car that the Crabbs say they heard drive up no 48 driveway then do a u turn was the same car fm saw that morning that drove into next doors driveway reverse and drive back out. The 2 accounts of a car doing almost identical things may very well have been just the 1 car at the one time which may have been closer to 9:30? That just seems to make more sense to me

It was 9.00am when the FFC saw the car drive past and turn in the neighbours drive.
The Crabbs arrived home 9.30-9.35am.

Couldn't have been the same car. However it's possible the person driving the car at 9.00 came back maybe even in a different car.

 

[Chrissy74]

I've read varying accounts of FFC's time for that car, either about 9 or close to 10:30. You'd think she'd remember if it was 9:30-ish as that was when she was taking photographs. If it was shortly before William vanished which she later mistakenly assumed was just before 10:30, it could have been the same car IMO, except that the Millers' driveway isn't gravel. However the sound might have come from the loose edge of the road?

Quite possibly. Amazing how the Crabbs recall hearing a car, not just any car but one that sounded like the postie AND that it sounded like it was driving on gravel and did a u turn and whatever else, because they were outside of course in their backyard BUT didn’t hear the kids playing and didn’t hear anyone open or close a door but heard the gravel.. seems strange to me how everyone in this picture has selective memory

 

[JLZ]

It was 9.00am when the FFC saw the car drive past and turn in the neighbours drive.
The Crabbs arrived home 9.30-9.35am.

Couldn't have been the same car. However it's possible the person driving the car at 9.00 came back maybe even in a different car.

BBM, did she say that at the inquest though or is that from an early article? It would have been about the same time as MFC left for his internet thing and I don't believe that link was ever made, just that the kids were riding bikes in the driveway, which possibly they did more than once that morning.