Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[SLouTh]

I would like to know peoples thoughts on the latest info/statements released on what you think now???

Perhaps if you share your thoughts on the info.... others may follow suit? Not really sure what what you mean as very little is "new" info, especially if one has followed the case and inquest etc ...

 

[sleepinoz]

NoCookies | The Australian


Looks like you all missed this from today's various William Tyrrell media articles.

Not missed - just not permitted because it's paywalled.

If you want to talk about it paraphrase as we can't quote it.

 

[stormbird]

And this from a Daily Telegraph Article

Hospital records reveal Mr Porter was at Port Macquarie for dialysis between 9am and 3pm that day and there are no traffic cameras on the main route between his home and the hospital.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
Sorry the Article is Paywalled ... I will try and paraphrase any other interesting parts as well ...

P.S. The Coroner has also released traffic camera photos of Ray's Car ...(but not published as yet in the article) .... but none were captured on the day William disappeared...

Thanks, SLouTh.
From what you said (I can't see the article), but please feel free to ignore all these questions:

- Ray was doing dialysis in Post Macquarie (presumably hooked up to a machine in hospital) from 9am to 3pm "that day": does it say that it was 12 Sep 2014, and whether he missed any appointments later?
- Does it say what a "traffic camera" is, or where Ray lived? (I'm thinking there must have been lots of cameras on the route, regardless of where Ray lived or which hospital he was going to.)
- Does it say whether Ray went to and from the hospital in his car, and if so whether anybody else was with him?
- Does it say where the traffic cameras show Ray's car to be, and when?

 

[stormbird]

A tweet by The Australian which allowed me to see a sample of yesterday's article by Caroline Overington.

Does anybody know of a tweeted link for yesterday's Daily Telegraph article by Perry Duffin?

 

[stormbird]

@SLouTh,
Just an update to my earlier post: I found access to the Perry Duffin article, so please disregard my questions. I'll try to do a paraphrase post later.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

NoCookies | The Australian


Looks like you all missed this from today's various William Tyrrell media articles.

Looks like there was more, that was missed .....

William Tyrrell: Frank Abbott's phone conversations with a priest revealed | Daily Mail Online

Other evidence that can be shared with the public today includes:

• An investigator's note written by police this year, which claimed William Tyrrell's foster father had 'ignored advice' from police to remain at William's foster grandmother's house during the search for the boy. The foster dad was seen by Senior Constable Rowley on the nearby fire trail, the note alleged.
• 
  
• Diary entries have been released where Paul Savage recalls discovering a Spiderman suit on his morning walk. The suit was not William's and had been planted there in a police operation.

In Savage's diary entry for July 27 2017, he apparently wrote in block letters: 'Went for my walk again but I found a Spiderman outfit as I walked up the hill. It was about the right size for William. Hope it helps the police find the little bloke. The next week, on August 3, he writes about ringing police and reports that they turned up within an hour to speak to him.

 

[SLouTh]

I don't think we missed the article ..... Just didn't know how to link it as it was 'subscriber'.... and the entry to the article was via Caroline's Fb page ..... and still is for those that want to read it.... as a "free read" ....

However what is strange is that the article has been revised and shortened and has the title has changed ........ from when it was first published ......

First Title -
"William Tyrrell investigation: sensitive NSW police documents released"

The main topics of the very long article are as follows ....

• A photograph showing, for the first time, the bright white spider on the back of the Spider-Man suit William was wearing when he went missing;

• a statement that suggests that William’s foster father, who cannot be named, ignored instructions from NSW Police not to leave the house at Benaroon Drive in Kendall on the morning of the boy’s disappearance;

• a statement that suggests that police were unable to find anyone to corroborate evidence given by William’s foster mother, who likewise cannot be named, who has told police that she saw two strange cars in the street on the morning of William’s disappearance;

• a statement that suggests that a near-neighbour from Benaroon Drive, Paul Savage, was unable to account for all his movements on the morning of William’s disappearance;

• a statement that suggests that Mr Savage removed a bush camera from a tree near where William disappeared, and did not tell police;

• transcripts of several phone conservations between a local sex offender, Mr Frank Abbott, and his parish priest;

• an examination of the evidence given by an elderly neighbour, Mr Ronald Chapman, who insists that he saw William in the back of a car being driven erratically down his street.

There is no suggestion that William’s foster parents, or Mr Savage were involved in his abduction. They have previously been ruled out as suspects.


New Title -
Police eye on William Tyrrell’s foster carers
and a small excerpt from the article

Dozens of sensitive documents related to the case were released by the NSW Coroner on Tuesday in a last-ditch effort to encourage witnesses to come forward.

The documents show senior police returning in February this year to a fire trail where William’s foster father was seen by police on September 12, 2014, the day the boy vanished.

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[SLouTh]

And there is another part about the Police Covert Operation when they hid the spiderman suit in the bush ..... in the Telegraph Article ....yesterday ....

Another local man saw the suit after savage told him about it on his walk..... (Which I don't believe we have heard about before.....)

Paraphrasing.....

From the reports released from the Coroner it states:

Mr Savage, in July 2017, set out on his morning bushwalk in the dense scrub that surrounds the mid-north coast hamlet.

Next to the dirt track, among the leaves, police documents allege he stopped and bent over near scrunched up blue and red material - it was a Spider-Man suit nearly identical to the one worn by William when he vanished three years prior.

Savage kept walking and ran into another local, John Casimir. They chatted, Mr Savage waved his hands about and Mr Casimir walked down toward the suit - he would later tell police it would like a blue “piece of rag”.

Neither man knew it had been planted by a specialist covert police team who were monitoring Mr Savage to feed information back to Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin.

Edit - sorry copied wrong link ...... We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[SLouTh]

I wonder how long it will take the media to 'drip feed" all of the new information released from the Coroner?????
One article states "dozens" and one states 'troves" of information was released in order to help the case....

Including:
Multiple phone conversations between Abbott and M Parish
Photos of Ray Porters Car
And who knows what other new information????

 

[SLouTh]

NoCookies | The Australian


Looks like you all missed this from today's various William Tyrrell media articles.

Regarding the bolded text in the quote ... we knew Ronald Chapman had visitors that day... they were his sisters from memory ......

Edit = Typo

 

[SLouTh]

Thanks, SLouTh.
From what you said (I can't see the article), but please feel free to ignore all these questions:

- Ray was doing dialysis in Post Macquarie (presumably hooked up to a machine in hospital) from 9am to 3pm "that day": does it say that it was 12 Sep 2014, and whether he missed any appointments later?
- Does it say what a "traffic camera" is, or where Ray lived? (I'm thinking there must have been lots of cameras on the route, regardless of where Ray lived or which hospital he was going to.)
- Does it say whether Ray went to and from the hospital in his car, and if so whether anybody else was with him?
- Does it say where the traffic cameras show Ray's car to be, and when?

Hi Stormy,

Sadly it doesn't say very much in the article .....But hopefully we may hear more about this.... It does mention the traffic cameras.... a little....

It does say that other documents include traffic camera images of a white Holden Commodore station wagon belonging to Wauchope man Raymond Porter.

The traffic camera images reveal Mr Porter’s car was moving around the region on the days before and after William vanished but September 12 - the day William vanished - the car did not appear on any traffic cameras.

Hospital records reveal Mr Porter was at Port Macquarie for dialysis between 9am and 3pm that day and there are no traffic cameras on the main route between his home and the hospital.

 

[SLouTh]

Regarding the bolded text in the quote ... we knew Ronald Chapman had visitors that day... they were his sisters from memory ......

Edit = Typo

My mistake it was his niece and her husband ..... from Podcast Where's William - No Closer

 

[stormbird]

Hi Stormy,

Sadly it doesn't say very much in the article .....But hopefully we may hear more about this.... It does mention the traffic cameras.... a little....

It does say that other documents include traffic camera images of a white Holden Commodore station wagon belonging to Wauchope man Raymond Porter.

The traffic camera images reveal Mr Porter’s car was moving around the region on the days before and after William vanished but September 12 - the day William vanished - the car did not appear on any traffic cameras.

Hospital records reveal Mr Porter was at Port Macquarie for dialysis between 9am and 3pm that day and there are no traffic cameras on the main route between his home and the hospital.

Thanks, SLouTh. I'll just add (from "Coroner releases trove of William Tyrrell documents", Perry Duffin, paywalled):

- On the day that PS said he first saw the planted Spider-Man suit (which was the second day of walking near it), PS stopped and nudged it with his foot and went straight home; the covert police saw him run down his driveway and take out his mobile phone. Plain clothes police arrived an hour later and PS took them to see the suit.

- In post 208 SLouTh said "Another local man saw the suit after savage told him about it on his walk" (the first day). IMO that isn't quite what was said in the article, though fair enough if that's what SLouth interprets it to mean. IMO the article says that on the first day PS saw the fabric on the ground, kept walking, ran into the man (who was presumably walking the opposite way), they stopped for a chat - PS waving his hands around - then continued their walks and the other man went past the suit. It doesn't mention what the man and PS talked about. It does say that the man later discussed the suit with police, but it doesn't say when or whether he called them, or whether he saw it that day.

- The map below shows the locations (circled) of the traffic cameras which are said to have captured images of Ray P's vehicle in the days before and after William went missing: there are four locations, all of them on the Pacific Highway. I re-created the map from the article, and the base map with all the camera locations is by a Facebook community, "NSW Speed Camera Locations" using Google My Maps, and their homepage shows a key to the map symbols. On the map below, the cameras circled are "average speed enforcement cameras" (in the article called "point-to-point cameras"), which in NSW are supposed to monitor only "heavy vehicles and trailers with a Gross Vehicle Mass greater than 4.5 tonnes" (PDF fact sheet). So... did Ray own a heavy vehicle or trailer? Or do the heavy-vehicle-only cameras actually photograph cars too?

 

[Sprockett7701]

Happy 9th Birthday dear William, 6 years without your loved ones & not knowing where or what happened to you

Thinking of all who love William x

Gosh, 6 yrs already, time flys in the most dreadful ways...always here for you William.

 

[Morrisa]

White station wagon....and photo of Ray Porter

William Tyrrell abduction: Probe after dying man's confession | Daily Mail Online

 

[stormbird]

The Daily Mail article linked above shows images of a car being captured by highway cameras. So, unless there are other types of highway cameras or the images are not believable, the images were captured and stored (for years?) by "point-to-point" cameras. But we've been told repeatedly that those cameras only monitor heavy vehicles. For example:

- Point to point cameras won't be used to monitor cars in NSW, Feb 2018
"Member for Dubbo and Police Minister Troy Grant said the use of the cameras was discussed but it was decided the positioning of existing cameras wasn't appropriate for usage with cars."

- NSW pressured to extend point-to-point speed cameras, Nov 2016
"NSW remains the only Australian state not using existing point-to-point speed camera technology to catch cars breaking the limit, despite a soaring road toll and having signed a national commitment to do so more than five years ago."

I don't care whether cars are photographed by point-to-point cameras or not. There are so many other types of cameras, what difference does it make. And if the point-to-point images are able to help police in this case, then good. But (a) I hate being lied to; and (b) are the images even legal?

 

[JLZ]

The Daily Mail article linked above shows images of a car being captured by highway cameras. So, unless there are other types of highway cameras or the images are not believable, the images were captured and stored (for years?) by "point-to-point" cameras. But we've been told repeatedly that those cameras only monitor heavy vehicles. For example:

- Point to point cameras won't be used to monitor cars in NSW, Feb 2018
"Member for Dubbo and Police Minister Troy Grant said the use of the cameras was discussed but it was decided the positioning of existing cameras wasn't appropriate for usage with cars."

- NSW pressured to extend point-to-point speed cameras, Nov 2016
"NSW remains the only Australian state not using existing point-to-point speed camera technology to catch cars breaking the limit, despite a soaring road toll and having signed a national commitment to do so more than five years ago."

I don't care whether cars are photographed by point-to-point cameras or not. There are so many other types of cameras, what difference does it make. And if the point-to-point images are able to help police in this case, then good. But (a) I hate being lied to; and (b) are the images even legal?

I'd never heard of this technology, but I am inferring that although the cameras are photographing non-selectively, the images are not used to calculate and take legal action upon the average speed of ordinary cars--only of trucks. A single image isn't capturing the speed; the process involves matching up of vehicles at separate place and time points and taking an average speed from that. And then going ahead with law enforcement steps. So based on my limited information I don't see any lying here.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

The Daily Mail article linked above shows images of a car being captured by highway cameras. So, unless there are other types of highway cameras or the images are not believable, the images were captured and stored (for years?) by "point-to-point" cameras. But we've been told repeatedly that those cameras only monitor heavy vehicles. For example:

- Point to point cameras won't be used to monitor cars in NSW, Feb 2018
"Member for Dubbo and Police Minister Troy Grant said the use of the cameras was discussed but it was decided the positioning of existing cameras wasn't appropriate for usage with cars."

- NSW pressured to extend point-to-point speed cameras, Nov 2016
"NSW remains the only Australian state not using existing point-to-point speed camera technology to catch cars breaking the limit, despite a soaring road toll and having signed a national commitment to do so more than five years ago."

I don't care whether cars are photographed by point-to-point cameras or not. There are so many other types of cameras, what difference does it make. And if the point-to-point images are able to help police in this case, then good. But (a) I hate being lied to; and (b) are the images even legal?

What about "red light" cameras? Maybe they are too recent?

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks, SLouTh. I'll just add (from "Coroner releases trove of William Tyrrell documents", Perry Duffin, paywalled):

- On the day that PS said he first saw the planted Spider-Man suit (which was the second day of walking near it), PS stopped and nudged it with his foot and went straight home; the covert police saw him run down his driveway and take out his mobile phone. Plain clothes police arrived an hour later and PS took them to see the suit.

- In post 208 SLouTh said "Another local man saw the suit after savage told him about it on his walk" (the first day). IMO that isn't quite what was said in the article, though fair enough if that's what SLouth interprets it to mean. IMO the article says that on the first day PS saw the fabric on the ground, kept walking, ran into the man (who was presumably walking the opposite way), they stopped for a chat - PS waving his hands around - then continued their walks and the other man went past the suit. It doesn't mention what the man and PS talked about. It does say that the man later discussed the suit with police, but it doesn't say when or whether he called them, or whether he saw it that day.
.....

Would be interesting to know whether or not this other fellow went home and immediately phoned police about seeing the Spiderman costume, imo.

 

[drsleuth]

The Daily Mail article linked above shows images of a car being captured by highway cameras. So, unless there are other types of highway cameras or the images are not believable, the images were captured and stored (for years?) by "point-to-point" cameras. But we've been told repeatedly that those cameras only monitor heavy vehicles. For example:

- Point to point cameras won't be used to monitor cars in NSW, Feb 2018
"Member for Dubbo and Police Minister Troy Grant said the use of the cameras was discussed but it was decided the positioning of existing cameras wasn't appropriate for usage with cars."

- NSW pressured to extend point-to-point speed cameras, Nov 2016
"NSW remains the only Australian state not using existing point-to-point speed camera technology to catch cars breaking the limit, despite a soaring road toll and having signed a national commitment to do so more than five years ago."

I don't care whether cars are photographed by point-to-point cameras or not. There are so many other types of cameras, what difference does it make. And if the point-to-point images are able to help police in this case, then good. But (a) I hate being lied to; and (b) are the images even legal?

Point to point cameras certainly are used by NSW police to identify cars.

Another case I follow, it was shown in court how many times a suspect went up & down the hwy many times in one day.