Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[SouthAussie]

The Australian Federal Police (AFP) are the Australian equivalent to the FBI, and interestingly performs the same hybrid law enforcement and intelligence functions. The FBI is a hybrid law enforcement and intelligence agency - but is primarily known for their law enforcement function.
What is the Australian equivalent of the FBI? - Quora.

The solid relationship between the AFP and the FBI continues to be an important one as both organisations face the challenges that security and transnational crime activities bring in the 21st Century.
AFP’s partnership with the FBI has practical outcomes from pursuing and investigating terrorists, to the global hunt for online child sex offenders as well as cooperative initiatives focusing on professional development, training and technology exchanges.
http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/AUFPPlatypus/2008/6.pdf

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Yes agree Wex .... This case, and others here in Aus that remain unsolved, makes me wonder if Australia needs its own version of the FBI ...??

I have followed some recent cases in the US where they have called the FBI in very early, and have had amazing results, and the Police Departments involved have been amazed at what technology the FBI has access to etc....

I understand that the FBI cannot solve every case, but I do wonder if Australian Policing needs to "up the ante" and form an elite squad and be given latest resources to assist in resolving crime...

JMO

In Australia, the AFP fills this role.

 

[SLouTh]

I know Australia has an AFP ...... but personally I do not believe they are in the same "league" as the FBI ....
Yes they concentrate on terror and international online sex offenders etc
But in my opinion they rarely put officers on the ground to assist with cases like William's ...
Personally I believe they under resourced and could be improved..
JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Well it didn't work very well. Obviously people that did see something didn't get that message. 'Possible abduction' and 'anything suspicious in the area' may have made people get on the blower and actually report what they saw instead of sitting around waiting for someone to ask them.

I won't keep on replying ..... you are entitled to your opinion. But, if you look, you will find that the police were asking about suspicious activity.

Exactly one week after William disappeared, road blocks were set up and police were asking if people had seen suspicious cars in the area when William disappeared.

One week is not too long for people to remember. And that is besides the police door-knocking the street immediately to see if residents knew anything. And asking locals to hold onto their CCTV for that day.

I cannot believe that of the hundreds of locals who went out to search for William, that if one or several of them knew something they wouldn't have come forward to say "I saw a car screaming out of the area" "I saw a stranger in town". In fact, I think that some did, didn't they? (Except for Mr Chapman )

I think we may be forgetting things that happened very early in the piece. Or perhaps it easier at this late juncture to point fingers at police inadequacy rather than look at the people who didn't come forward regardless of how many times the police called for information, from less than 3 hours after William's disappearance to every year afterwards.


20 September 2014
Equally as clueless about William's disappearance as is family, police Superintendent Paul Fehon said 'someone, somewhere' must know something about where William is.
'There must be someone out there who knows something about William’s unexplained disappearance,' he said.

On Friday, police moved their inquiries onto the region's roads to stop and quiz motorists whether they'd seen any suspicious vehicles the time that William went missing.

A number of tips, including reports that a 'well-dressed, well-spoken' man stopped at a local shop on Friday morning to ask directions to Batar Creek Road, which leads to Benaroon Drive where William was last seen, have uncovered nothing.

Supt Fehon ... 'We are following every possible avenue of inquiry that is being provided to us, be it CCTV, be it information regarding persons that may have been in the area, and we're asking the public if they know of anything to provide that information to Crime Stoppers,' he said.

William Tyrell's family makes public plea 8 days after he went missing | Daily Mail Online

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I know Australia has an AFP ...... but personally I do not believe they are in the same "league" as the FBI ....
Yes they concentrate on terror and international online sex offenders etc
But in my opinion they rarely put officers on the ground to assist with cases like William's ...
Personally I believe they under resourced and could be improved..
JMO

I think in US the FBI have certain crimes that are their responsibility. For example, kidnapping, presumably because it crosses state borders. But unless there was a telephone call or note from the kidnappers, they aren't called in when a child goes missing. So even if we DID have an FBI, chances are they wouldn't have been called in to look for WT.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think in US the FBI have certain crimes that are their responsibility. For example, kidnapping, presumably because it crosses state borders. But unless there was a telephone call or note from the kidnappers, they aren't called in when a child goes missing. So even if we DID have an FBI, chances are they wouldn't have been called in to look for WT.

Yes, the FBI assist with across-state-border kidnappings, when requested.
The AFP commented with regard to William's disappearance when they investigated and arrested local child sex abusers.


AFP Assistant Commissioner Lesa Gale said the cases were not linked, however, she was unable to say if the men were in the town of 1000 people when William went missing.
https://7news.com.au/news/court-jus...-biggest-child-abuse-ring-uncovered-c-1080855

 

[SLouTh]

I think in US the FBI have certain crimes that are their responsibility. For example, kidnapping, presumably because it crosses state borders. But unless there was a telephone call or note from the kidnappers, they aren't called in when a child goes missing. So even if we DID have an FBI, chances are they wouldn't have been called in to look for WT.

With all due respect, this is just one example of a recent US case where the FBI were called in to assist with a missing child case ....

Recent case - "King Hill" FBI assisted Child reported missing - Babysitter Charged with Murder

Press Conference here... Even if you only start listening at the 4.20 mark....

Deceased/Not Found - PA - King Hill, 2, stepfather said that boy was with babysitter, Philadelphia, 7 Jul 2020 *arrest*

Thread here: /www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/pa-king-hill-2-stepfather-said-that-boy-was-with-babysitter-philadelphia-7-jul-2020-arrest.531318/

My previous comments on the FBI were all my personal opinion as stated .... It would be a boring world if we all held the same opinion...

Edit - difficulty with link

 

[Deleted member 102539]

20 September 2014
Equally as clueless about William's disappearance as is family, police Superintendent Paul Fehon said 'someone, somewhere' must know something about where William is.
'There must be someone out there who knows something about William’s unexplained disappearance,' he said.

On Friday, police moved their inquiries onto the region's roads to stop and quiz motorists whether they'd seen any suspicious vehicles the time that William went missing.

A number of tips, including reports that a 'well-dressed, well-spoken' man stopped at a local shop on Friday morning to ask directions to Batar Creek Road, which leads to Benaroon Drive where William was last seen, have uncovered nothing.

Supt Fehon ... 'We are following every possible avenue of inquiry that is being provided to us, be it CCTV, be it information regarding persons that may have been in the area, and we're asking the public if they know of anything to provide that information to Crime Stoppers,' he said.

William Tyrell's family makes public plea 8 days after he went missing | Daily Mail Online

bbm

I'm curious to know, if ever was said, how old this well-dressed, well-spoken man seemed to be, who appeared at the shop?
-.-
I for my part find somehow remarkable, that I never heard of an unknown well-dressed/neatly dressed man, but only in case William (2014) and in case Khandalyce P. (suitcase with her remains found near Wynarka, 2015).
Man spotted in Wynarka with suitcase carrying skeletal remains of girl | Daily Mail Online
Superintendent Bray said it was highly unlikely that the young victim was missing NSW toddler William Tyrrell, who vanished from his home last September.
-.-
'Six to eight weeks ago, local women were out walking about 8am when they saw an elderly male walking towards the highway and across the railway line,' Superintendent Bray said.

'They didn't recognise this person as a local and they haven't seen him since. That person was about 60 years of age, average height, lightly built and neatly dressed and cleaned cut.

'We have no description of the clothes he was wearing but he was carrying a dark-coloured suitcase in one hand and he was carrying as supposed to wheeling it.
-.-
ETA: WHY wasn't used a sketch, to search for this man, in both cases, William and Khandalyce?

 

[SouthAussie]

bbm

I'm curious to know, if ever was said, how old this well-dressed, well-spoken man seemed to be, who appeared at the shop?
-.-
I for my part find somehow remarkable, that I never heard of an unknown well-dressed/neatly dressed man, but only in case William (2014) and in case Khandalyce P. (suitcase with her remains found near Wynarka, 2015).
Man spotted in Wynarka with suitcase carrying skeletal remains of girl | Daily Mail Online
Superintendent Bray said it was highly unlikely that the young victim was missing NSW toddler William Tyrrell, who vanished from his home last September.
-.-
'Six to eight weeks ago, local women were out walking about 8am when they saw an elderly male walking towards the highway and across the railway line,' Superintendent Bray said.

'They didn't recognise this person as a local and they haven't seen him since. That person was about 60 years of age, average height, lightly built and neatly dressed and cleaned cut.

'We have no description of the clothes he was wearing but he was carrying a dark-coloured suitcase in one hand and he was carrying as supposed to wheeling it.
-.-
ETA: WHY wasn't used a sketch, to search for this man, in both cases, William and Khandalyce?

Didn't they find the well dressed man, spoke with him, and said he wasn't involved? Pretty sure there is a link about it way back in the threads.

I think the man was with his wife IIRC.

 

[Warshawski]

Blue Clues,

Did the task force hear the recording of the phone call between the protected witness and FA and make contact with the protected witness before he went to visit FA?

I think so

Did the protected witness visit FA and receive the piece of paper with two names on it before or after FA was arrested and taken in for questioning in Nov 2019?

After, there was a phone conversation that was played in court from 19/2/2020, the protected witness than arranged to visit FA , where FA gave him 2 names on a piece of paper which he gave to police

The impression I got was that this protected witness was working with the police?

Some of my thoughts:

(why is this witness protected when so many others have been named & visible ?)

* this protected witness is / was someone close to FA
* this protected witness is / was trusted by FA
* this protected witness is / was habitually in regular contact with FA
* this protected witness may’ve started to have doubts about FA
* police may’ve convinced this person ( do we know it’s a Male) to gather some information
* how / what did this person present to FA that resulted in the provision of ‘names’
* was this person being ‘played’ by FA in his providing 2 names on a bit of paper to give to police ??
* do we know what names were provided (TJ & GO ??)
* where does MP fit in to this as I can imagine him taking a birthday card to FA.
* what’s with the triangulation that appears between MP, DP & FA ?

And most importantly, where is William ? Surely he deserves justice ..

 

[Warshawski]

The reason for the Tamworth trip--did that have to do with a trailer belonging to protected witness's wife's son, not a son of FA? And was that in the wife's blue Subaru? It seems to be unclear whether it happened before or after William's disappearance, but likely after? I'm wondering whether, if FA pinched the Subaru for use in the abduction of William, he might have wanted to go along for the Tamworth trip to provide an innocent reason for his prints or DNA being in the car. I haven't seen it mentioned that that was one of the cars he regularly borrowed.

Hi JLZ .. for sure any number of people have same types, models, colours etc of cars, but there seems commonality in this enquiry:
White - Stationwagon or Ute
Grey - Sedan - dark grey, green-grey (depending on ‘light’ IMO could be easily describing the same colour)
Blue - Subaru x 2 perhaps. Did FA travel to Tamworth in a blue Subaru ?
I believe Kellie Lee (who’s parents lived near Mr Chapman & who’s little boy had a Spider-Man suit) drove a blue Subaru

Red / shades of - seen at ..? Was it the sawmill & elsewhere ..

And then there’s all the Cast ....I get lost with who said, did, to who & what, was where & when etc!
I can only imagine the convoluted ‘mapping’ on the Investigators’ Whiteboard!

Just praying for their Guidance & Success.

 

[Warshawski]

Yes the initials are becoming overwhelming.

Everything is overwhelming !
So confusing & just so overwhelmingly disappointing & sad for me.
I struggle with the Oft-thought that ‘humans’ are the superior species when there’s continual instances of disregard & disrespect for our fellow beings.
We need a re-set for sure

 

[Warshawski]

Get Smart,
I'd be interested to see any articles too. IMO it's quite strange the sighting wasn't given any publicity. Maybe the mystery driver was recognisable to locals or police and had already been eliminated as a person of interest, but I couldn't find any news reports even just mentioning that the witnesses had appeared at the inquest. I did two posts in thread 54 (post 251 and post 616) but they're not much help, sorry - there were no replies back then about articles or reports.

Perhaps one of the private witnesses ?

 

[Eloise]

I know Australia has an AFP ...... but personally I do not believe they are in the same "league" as the FBI ....
Yes they concentrate on terror and international online sex offenders etc
But in my opinion they rarely put officers on the ground to assist with cases like William's ...
Personally I believe they under resourced and could be improved..
JMO

With all due respect, this is just one example of a recent US case where the FBI were called in to assist with a missing child case ....

Recent case - "King Hill" FBI assisted Child reported missing - Babysitter Charged with Murder

Press Conference here... Even if you only start listening at the 4.20 mark....

Deceased/Not Found - PA - King Hill, 2, stepfather said that boy was with babysitter, Philadelphia, 7 Jul 2020 *arrest*

Thread here: /www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/pa-king-hill-2-stepfather-said-that-boy-was-with-babysitter-philadelphia-7-jul-2020-arrest.531318/

My previous comments on the FBI were all my personal opinion as stated .... It would be a boring world if we all held the same opinion...

Edit - difficulty with link

You can't compare the US and Australian policing situations. Australian police, other than the AFP, are all state police run by state governments. American police are mostly run by cities and counties with varying levels of funding, and it's unsurprising they call in outside agencies from their state and federal governments to help. Australian state police forces are all well-equipped and well-resourced with many specialist units that are highly trained and experienced.

The issues caused by decentralised US policing are covered here: What the World Could Teach America About Policing

 

[Warshawski]

This does again make me question the police process here. I understand they don't want to panic people but how much vital information did not come out earlier because people were under the impression William was missing and not abducted. Perhaps if the panic button was hit a bit earlier then we would have had a different result. What would be the harm in going down the road of possible abduction after say 3 hours of searching? Memories would be a lot fresher and information more accurate.

I’m with you Wex. .....time is of the essence always.

IMO immediately a little child is reported missing ( when there’s no immediate suggestion of parental abduction) it should be broadcast on media for everyone to be on the alert for anything that may be relevant.
Some people’s memory was tweaked a week, a month, a year or more after & made their knowledge known to investigators - how many others didn’t do that or dismissed their thoughts due to the time lapse / not sure etc.

In hindsight, I would think perhaps the initial enquiries would now be handled differently. .. but having grown up in a small country town, I can sort of understand the approach ...’far too trusting in the genuine’ is a challenge in those places.

I can see that William’s FP’s would no doubt have felt so safe & comfortable in Kendall, fresh country air, relaxed environment, much more garden space then back home in Sydney - space that the kids loved to explore (& should have been safe to do so)

 

[SLouTh]

You can't compare the US and Australian policing situations. Australian police, other than the AFP, are all state police run by state governments. American police are mostly run by cities and counties with varying levels of funding, and it's unsurprising they call in outside agencies from their state and federal governments to help. Australian state police forces are all well-equipped and well-resourced with many specialist units that are highly trained and experienced.

The issues caused by decentralised US policing are covered here: What the World Could Teach America About Policing

Like I said. it was just my opinion.... maybe, we can now change the subject? And get back to sleuthing William's case?

 

[Warshawski]

Wexford,

I'm not sure whether you're saying police should have asked for information hours earlier than they did? If so, fair enough.

I think they must have asked sometime during the first day or night, if this post is the original and the date was Australian (not Facebook/US time):

View attachment 256359

- screenshot of "Please share: Have you see three-year-old William Tyrrell?" NSW Police Force, Facebook public page photos, 12 Sep 2014 (I think a direct link won't work, but for me an internet search for "nsw police force facebook have you seen william tyrrell" produces a link at the top of results).

Thanks Stormbird. Good to know it made it to FaceBook. Was it on radio & TV immediately I wonder as many people aren’t glued to Facebook ( me included)

One thing that caught my attention was the description of William - Brown hair & hazel eyes ..

if I recall ( no doubt incorrectly) RC recounted little boy in back of car with blonde hair ? . maybe not ... maybe only the driver had blonde hair up in a bun ?? it’s all so confusing ..

 

[Warshawski]

is this headline true or just sensationalism?
did the boys really see his body?

Boy, 3, says he saw a SUITCASE with missing toddler William Tyrrell inside - and knew who killed him | Daily Mail Online

Hey Bear, I believe the Boys were shown a Suitcase by ‘someone’ who told them it contained the body of William.
I think this has been presented at the inquest by adult, but pretty sure names suppressed children, possibly in care etc)

 

[Warshawski]

With all due respect, this is just one example of a recent US case where the FBI were called in to assist with a missing child case ....

Recent case - "King Hill" FBI assisted Child reported missing - Babysitter Charged with Murder

Press Conference here... Even if you only start listening at the 4.20 mark....

Deceased/Not Found - PA - King Hill, 2, stepfather said that boy was with babysitter, Philadelphia, 7 Jul 2020 *arrest*

Thread here: /www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/pa-king-hill-2-stepfather-said-that-boy-was-with-babysitter-philadelphia-7-jul-2020-arrest.531318/

My previous comments on the FBI were all my personal opinion as stated .... It would be a boring world if we all held the same opinion...

Edit - difficulty with link

all I can say is ‘something was missed by someone’ ... be that a witness or one charged with extricating every bit of potentially useful information from those along the way.....
Otherwise there would be answers... all just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thanks Stormbird. Good to know it made it to FaceBook. Was it on radio & TV immediately I wonder as many people aren’t glued to Facebook ( me included)

One thing that caught my attention was the description of William - Brown hair & hazel eyes ..

if I recall ( no doubt incorrectly) RC recounted little boy in back of car with blonde hair ? . maybe not ... maybe only the driver had blonde hair up in a bun ?? it’s all so confusing ..

I remember only the driver having blonde hair.