Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #78

[iiiii's]

I have managed to find this old post about “Steve” and his evidence ..
If anyone wants a refresh.???

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

Thanks Doc.

The link showing this witness evidence which Dr Sleuth posted, has some really interesting information. What interests me is the police questioning FA in 2013/14 about a child approach at John's River. It's circumstantial but kind of points to a suspicion I had about him from the TK situation. Was he active in the John's River area at the time TK got lost? It seems police suspected he was and he was also familiar with the area. MOO

 

[SLouTh]

The link showing this witness evidence which Dr Sleuth posted, has some really interesting information. What interests me is the police questioning FA in 2013/14 about a child approach at John's River. It's circumstantial but kind of points to a suspicion I had about him from the TK situation. Was he active in the John's River area at the time TK got lost? It seems police suspected he was and he was also familiar with the area. MOO

There is more information in this post by Doc Sleuth, regarding FA in John’s River.
From Iris N‘s evidence at the inquest…

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

 

[SLouTh]

I'm wondering if anyone who attended this tranche noticed the FFC's reactions to FA and DP? Was there any recognition in her that either was the driver of the teal car? I imagine that if she had a strong reaction to recognition of a car, then she would have an even stronger reaction to someone she recognised driving the car the day WT disappeared. MOO

I wasn’t there so I don’t know what FM’s reaction was …. But a great point!

However, if she did recognise either of them, as the driver, would the Police have gone down their most recent track with such gusto??? (FM as the POI )

We have evidence to support that FA has no alibi for that day …. And was allegedly not at his abode that day. (per DP‘s evidence)
However we have no evidence that puts FA in Kendall (or Benaroon) that day ..

GO, however, was in Kendall that morning, as he paid his advertising at the Kendall Community Center…… (Speculation only - Was FA travelling with GO in his car with him to Kendall that morning??? Could that at least place FA in Kendall ????? )

DP alleges he was home all day fixing a bus….. but does he have an alibi… ???
And yet, point to point cameras show his car was out at 14:07pm …

IMO

 

[drsleuth]

I'm wondering if anyone who attended this tranche noticed the FFC's reactions to FA and DP? Was there any recognition in her that either was the driver of the teal car? I imagine that if she had a strong reaction to recognition of a car, then she would have an even stronger reaction to someone she recognised driving the car the day WT disappeared. MOO

I don't re-call iiii, it's very hard to watch the court room, listen & try & write everything down as it's said. I wish I did take more notice.....

FA was very tiny in a small box on the screen, very hard to see really

I do re-call the FFC crying & sobbing when the witness ( "Tanya" ) was talking about what she was told, about what FA said the suitcase.

In those last two days @ Taree ( I wasn't there for the Mon 16/3/20 ) there was soooo much info coming out that it's a wonder our heads weren't spinning, I really had no time to digest the info before the next witness ( there were 9 witnesses the past 2 days )

After this I needed a break from this case for awhile.

I do wonder what course the inquest had of taken if we sat for the thur & Fri as was planned. Would we have heard from FA I wonder?

 

[drsleuth]

The link showing this witness evidence which Dr Sleuth posted, has some really interesting information. What interests me is the police questioning FA in 2013/14 about a child approach at John's River. It's circumstantial but kind of points to a suspicion I had about him from the TK situation. Was he active in the John's River area at the time TK got lost? It seems police suspected he was and he was also familiar with the area. MOO

Can you remind me who TK is ( I think I remember it's a kid who went missing & what dates are you talking about? ) ?

 

[SLouTh]

Can you remind me who TK is ( I think I remember it's a kid who went missing & what dates are you talking about? ) ?

It was in May, 2013.
Yes the child that went missing but was found.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/johns-river-community-never-gave-up-on-missing-toddler-tyler-kennedy/news-story/b316623b04aa7206fbbbc68d69c0556c

 

[SLouTh]

It was in May, 2013.
Yes the child that went missing but was found.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/johns-river-community-never-gave-up-on-missing-toddler-tyler-kennedy/news-story/b316623b04aa7206fbbbc68d69c0556c

Abbott was living in the Kendall area, in 2014……
But unsure about 2013????

Frank Abbott, who was charged with the sexual abuse of an eight-year-old girl, then acquitted, was living in the Kendall area on the NSW Mid North Coast in September 2014 when William, 3, disappeared from his foster-grandmother's front yard in the town.

Pastor helped paedophile get bail, William Tyrrell inquest told

A person of interest in the disappearance of the boy says there are "mitigating circumstances" around his conviction for the sexual abuse of several children.

www.smh.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

I do wonder if FA gave evidence in closed court, just doesn't make sense that he was able to x exam who ever he wanted.

The coroner said many times , that he would have a chance to talk ( or words to that effect )

I think you are correct here Doc, and that FA has given some evidence in a closed court…..

Sept 6, 2019.

The Australian reported that the inquiry into the disappearance of William Tyrrell has taken secret prison testimony from Frank Abbott.

And they used the word “testimony” again …

Abbott was living rough in 2014, and police responded to his testimony by conducting a rapid search of an old sawmill near where he once made his home.

I don’t think the word “testimony” would be used if the information came from a Police “Statement” ……


The full search of the Herrons Creek Property, in June 2020, was after the “rapid search” and after the 3rd tranche of the inquest….


Now that focus has returned, with police and SES volunteers launching a four-day search of bushland near Herons Creek, on the New South Wales north coast, on Monday.

Police questioned him last year and at least two searches made of his property

Links:

Why William Tyrrell investigators are looking at Frank Abbott

A person of interest in the disappearance of Australian boy William Tyrrell is back in the spotlight, with investigators focusing their attention on hitch-hiking paedophile Frank Abbott.

www.dailymail.co.uk

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/murder-mystery-link-to-william-tyrrell-case/news-story/42b6d39ca43b28f759b68a5ac38520f3

 

[SLouTh]

Can any one confirm the dates that RP was the Caretaker of the Kendall Showgrounds????

Was that in 2014???? (Or had he moved to Wauchope by then???)

Just thinking, if RP was living at the Kendall Showgrounds as a Caretaker in 2014, and he did pick up FA on the 11th (as per DP’s testimony at the inquest) is there a chance that FA stayed the night at Ray’s place?? That could put FA awfully close to Benaroon Drive, on the morning of the 12th??? (If he was at Kendall Showgrounds)

IMO

 

[drsleuth]

Can any one confirm the dates that RP was the Caretaker of the Kendall Showgrounds????

Was that in 2014???? (Or had he moved to Wauchope by then???)

Just thinking, if RP was living at the Kendall Showgrounds as a Caretaker in 2014, and he did pick up FA on the 11th (as per DP’s testimony at the inquest) is there a chance that FA stayed the night at Ray’s place?? That could put FA awfully close to Benaroon Drive, on the morning of the 12th??? (If he was at Kendall Showgrounds)

IMO

Are you talking about Ron or Ray Porter?

Ron Porter was the care taker at the show ground at some time.

I'll have to check my notes ( don't have time atm ) to see when that was, but I'm sure Ron wasn't in 2014, as he was deceased.

 

[SLouTh]

Are you talking about Ron or Ray Porter?

Ron Porter was the care taker at the show ground at some time.

I'll have to check my notes ( don't have time atm ) to see when that was, but I'm sure Ron wasn't in 2014, as he was deceased.

No Ray…..
( but it was organised for him, by a family member on the show committee IIRC??? )


The inquest was also told that Porter only ever spoke of two friends - one of whom was 'Frank', the other 'Phil'.

An acquaintance of Abbott and Porter's, Iris Northam, told the inquest that Porter had previously lived at the Kendall showground.

'Ray would often take Frank (Abbott) into Kew for a coffee,' she said.

'Sometimes Ray would drive Frank in from Heron's Creek and other times he would just meet him there.'

All eyes on 'dirty old man': Bombshell twist in William Tyrrell probe

When the inquest into Australia's best known missing child, William Tyrrell, resumes next week, many questions are expected to centre around one man - Frank Abbott.

www.dailymail.co.uk

EDIT to add:

I think it was Ron that arranged for Ray to be the caretaker …. IIRC?? Ron was the one on the committee or something to do with the show grounds …

 

[Couldbe]

JMO – We know that the FM phoned BS about the washing machine at 9.03am… he didn’t answer and she then left a message on his voicemail and then 7 minutes later, GO phoned on the FGM’s landline:

Eerie comments William Tyrrell's foster mum made after he vanished
“CCTV from the Kendall Tennis Club showed the foster father's car passing just before 9am.

Back at the Benaroon Drive house, the foster mother made a call at 9.03am to the washing machine repairman Bill Spedding.

At 9.10am, handyman Geoff Owen rang regarding repairs to the house's verandah.

This left 27 minutes until the alleged taking of the final photo of William, alive and shoeless in his red and blue costume, on the verandah.

The photo was taken at 9.37am, with the inquest originally hearing from Mr Craddock that 'that is a time that we can be certain'.

However, computer and data software analysis before the inquest later prompted questions about that time stamp too.

A forensics report by the company Xways said the photo was 'created 12/09/2014 07:39:54' but also said it bore the 'corrected time: 12/09/2014 09:37:44'.”
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

JMO – In considering that: FA and GO may have been there initially to rob FGM (Or Miller's house) … that didn’t occur.

It didn't work in the initial stage (Because the FM and FGM were with the children bike-riding and FM Mummy monstering).

But there was a later opportunity for one of them to pounce when William was roaring down the side of the house, and they abducted him.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

It has been suggested that the real purpose of GO’s phone call at 9.10am was an attempt to lure the adults back into the house, thereby leaving the children unattended.

If we look at the timeline from 9.03am:

… allowing say allow 3 minutes for the call to BS … it would then be 9.06am.
… 4 minutes later, they were unable to hear the phone ringing at 9.10am, because they were all preparing for the bike-riding.
… allowing say 3 mins to put the helmets on the children, and then 15 allowing minutes for the actual bike-riding, and then another 4 minutes to finalise and put the bikes away, that left … by 9.35 am (Only a few minutes later) the children were drawing, FGM engrossed in reading her newspaper and the FGM had procured her camera and began taking photos. Morning tea was apparently fitted in there somewhere as well.

...... Trying to squeeze in the events of the FM, FGM, William and his sister is problematic in my opinion, so did the FM tell the truth about what occurred that fateful morning?

 

[Detective Willy]

The timeline is what disturbs me the most + the conflicting stories + important information that was initially witheld - this is why the FM has publicly been outed by Police "as the sole person of interest" IMO.

Police would have surely had FA high on their suspect list at some stage in the investigation and the fact that they are recommending charges against the FM says a lot to me.

If Police had any doubts about FA possible involvement they would not have spent the last few years down this road IMO.

 

[iiiii's]

No Ray…..
( but it was organised for him, by a family member on the show committee IIRC??? )


The inquest was also told that Porter only ever spoke of two friends - one of whom was 'Frank', the other 'Phil'.

An acquaintance of Abbott and Porter's, Iris Northam, told the inquest that Porter had previously lived at the Kendall showground.

'Ray would often take Frank (Abbott) into Kew for a coffee,' she said.

'Sometimes Ray would drive Frank in from Heron's Creek and other times he would just meet him there.'

All eyes on 'dirty old man': Bombshell twist in William Tyrrell probe

When the inquest into Australia's best known missing child, William Tyrrell, resumes next week, many questions are expected to centre around one man - Frank Abbott.

www.dailymail.co.uk

EDIT to add:

I think it was Ron that arranged for Ray to be the caretaker …. IIRC?? Ron was the one on the committee or something to do with the show grounds …

I had remembered something about RP living in a caravan at the showground so that proximity and possibly FA staying at that location has always stayed with me, and apparently chicken man (can't remember his name) used to stay their as well. Wonder if any connection has been found between FA and chicken man.

 

[SLouTh]

The timeline is what disturbs me the most + the conflicting stories + important information that was initially witheld - this is why the FM has publicly been outed by Police "as the sole person of interest" IMO.

Police would have surely had FA high on their suspect list at some stage in the investigation and the fact that they are recommending charges against the FM says a lot to me.

If Police had any doubts about FA possible involvement they would not have spent the last few years down this road IMO.

Could this have been a “Police Strategy” playing out in the media ???

Like a “reverse sting operation” ??? to try and elicit some sort of ”brag” from the real offender… ???

Starting with the Police releasing that statement about not believing the FM‘s recollection of the 2 cars??? (If they were actually involved in the disappearance of William ??? )

The “strategy” could have had a two fold effect, in that the Police were seen to be fully investigating the Fosters, in full view of the public …

Honestly, sometimes it’s very difficult to believe the Police, with media campaigns and strategies …. And what we learn to be the truth afterwards…
Why did they “pull” the 7 Doco on Abbott from air if they were truely focussed on FM?? It would have assisted them having the public focus elsewhere…. while they quietly continued to investigate FM …

And we also have to remember Police are human, and do make mistakes …. But if they can prove their theory with some evidence I will also believe that … But so far, there is no evidence of anything ….

All IMO

 

[Detective Willy]

The Police have not had to present any evidence of anything to the general public.

The only thing that matters right now is the file that the DPP has sitting on their desk. Plus what the coroner has IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

The link showing this witness evidence which Dr Sleuth posted, has some really interesting information. What interests me is the police questioning FA in 2013/14 about a child approach at John's River. It's circumstantial but kind of points to a suspicion I had about him from the TK situation. Was he active in the John's River area at the time TK got lost? It seems police suspected he was and he was also familiar with the area. MOO

From the inquest ... "You know you weren't liked in Johns River - all the kids were warned to stay away from you," Janice Tissisiz told Abbott. Link

Also, a man (PT) who formerly owned the John's River general store testified that FA came up to him when he heard the police had seized Tony Jones' car. FA said to PT that he knew the police would get TJ. PT didn't know why FA said that to him, as he had never discussed William's case with him. PT has known FA since the early 1990s. Link

Also .... Jan Anderson met convicted paedophile Frank Abbott when she was running the general store across the road from where he lived at Johns River.
She told the inquest after the toddler disappeared, he used to "talk quite a bit about William Tyrrell going missing." Link

And .... In 1996, three days after Ms Cox went missing, the Northams dropped into Johns River and noticed Abbott sporting large scratches on his arm. Link

It sounds as if FA has a long association with John's River.

imo

 

[drsleuth]

From the inquest ... "You know you weren't liked in Johns River - all the kids were warned to stay away from you," Janice Tissisiz told Abbott. Link

Also, a man (PK) who owned the John's River general store testified the FA came up to him when he heard the police had seized Tony Jones' car. FA said to PK that he knew the police would get TJ. PK didn't know why FA said that to him, as he had never discussed William's case with him. PK has known FA since the early 1990s. Link

It sounds as if FA has a long association with John's River.

imo

The bit about the walking frame is not correct. Btw the witnesses name is Patrick Teeling

FA on x exam

FA : You said I ran up to you at Kew.

PT : You did.

FA : I have a walking stick, how could I run?

PT : With your stick!

 

[SouthAussie]

The bit about the walking frame is not correct. Btw the witnesses name is Patrick Teeling

FA on x exam

FA : You said I ran up to you at Kew.

PT : You did.

FA : I have a walking stick, how could I run?

PT : With your stick!

It sounds as if FA may have moved (back) to John's River after William disappeared.

Jan Anderson met convicted paedophile Frank Abbott when she was running the general store across the road from where he lived at Johns River.
She told the inquest after the toddler disappeared, he used to "talk quite a bit about William Tyrrell going missing." Link

I wonder why he moved to Heron's Creek in the first place. Due to TK's disappearance (then found) in John's River? Or some other matter he was evading?

imo

 

[drsleuth]

It sounds as if FA may have moved (back) to John's River after William disappeared?

Jan Anderson met convicted paedophile Frank Abbott when she was running the general store across the road from where he lived at Johns River.
She told the inquest after the toddler disappeared, he used to "talk quite a bit about William Tyrrell going missing." Link

Jan Anderson knew FA when her & Col had the general store @ John's River in the early 1990's ( he allegedly stole from them - but they couldn't prove it - FA stayed away from the shop for 3/12 after this) where FA lived across the road from them, he did odd jobs for them & bragged about the murder he had been acquitted of .

Craddock : Was there a point ( I assume FA ) moved from John's River?

JA : Yeah, before we sold the shop he moved to Herron's creek -they had a donut shop in Taree than another general store ( Top Takeaway ) @ Wauchope in 2008( where FA says he was that morning ) - they closed the shop in 2/2015

They had no contact with FA for a while .

Craddock : How did that contact with FA recommence?

JA : His daughter lived in Wauchope & he just turned up at shop & helped.

Craddock : Let me see if we can get the time period. Top Takeaway in 2008 approx. Husband used to take FA with him when he went to buy stock ( fruit & vege )

Coroner : Even after he stole money?

JA : Well yeah we couldn't proove it.

Coroner : You didn't cut ties with him?

JA : Didn't see him while moved to Taree ( Donut shop )

JA or CA or Daughter used to give FA lifts home or drop him near Herron's Creek

FA's X exam

What year did you leave John's River & go to Taree?

JA : After 2002, probably 2004/2005

FA : I put it to you that's not correct. 2011 living in shed. I never went to Herron's creek till 2012

JA : We went from John's river to Taree



I've included the bits that relate to dates etc