Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[Ghostwheel]

RSBM
Oh, rest assured that is not missing information.

Article after article and interview after interview with alpine experts familiar with the case, posted across these 20 pages, cite a consistent fact: TP and KG had Emergency Thermal Blankets AND a Bivvy Wrap that were NOT deployed to save KG. Further, some reporting states TP took that equipment with him when he left KG.

Follow me here. They had blankets and a bivvy wrap that were not deployed. But do we have evidence that no other ones were deployed and went missing in the winds? Do we have evidence that what they left with is what he returned with? Did he make a statement that said he forgot? Point me there (I have read and read and cannot find it, so I could just be missing it) and I can check that off my list. Otherwise to me, he could have had x blankets and a bivvy and she could have had x blankets and a bivvy, and he returned with his and hers are gone. I say "could have". I don't know and I'd like to.

When the prosecutors says "forgetting to cover her with the emergency blankets", whose words are those? If they are Thomas', then sure, negligence. If not, if Thomas were to insist he DID cover her, and no one believes him because any coverings are gone, that is different and leaves a question. To me, at least.

 

[Charlot123]

I have a couple of questions. Is phone coverage 100% and 100% of the time for all phones/brands on that mtn? I go traveling with my friend. One place I have coverage. .25 miles down the road or up a hill I don't, but she does. And when I don't have coverage, my phone drains like no one's business. I keep mine on energy saving mode, which is silent, so I get more life out of it. Did either phone run out of power?

Second question. Have we seen Thomas' statement, the whole thing? Like where he said he left her without cover? Or maybe he left her and she said she'd said she'd get herself covered? Or he had covered her and the cover blew away (because they can if someone is freezing and feels hot and uncovers themselves)

If there was some kind of sign of life at 5:10am, did she have an apple watch or the like? Is that in an article anywhere?

Is it possible this was her trip? Her idea? He might have told her snow boots and split board bad and she was going to do it anyway? That when she was getting tired or close to exhaustion, she figured she'd just "push through it" and he didn't notice until it was too late? I haven't seen anything that makes that not possible. If someone insists they will continue without the other person, what are the choices? Call for emergency help when there is not yet an emergency? Postulating an alternative scenario. I've known people like that. Do stupid things and no one can stop them. Does anything 100% rule this out?

I'm trying to sort this in my mind. Some things are missing.

@Ghostwheel

I have traveled to Bavaria in 2024 and we also went to Salzburg.

The answer is yes, amazing coverage for both AT@T and T-mobile that once split off Deutschetelecom. T-mobile is the cheapest one for this reason.

But, for Austrian residents, with their local carriers they use, the coverage is great on that mountain. And in Alps.
So pay attention, in Thomas's statement, nowhere Mr. Jelinek his lawyer says that Thomas didn't answer because he had poor connection. He says, he didn't feel the vibration of the phone and later blames the rescuers. But poor connection is not ever mentioned.

 

[Sjöberg]

What challenges this hypothesis is one media report stating she was still showing signs of life at 5:10AM. But how is this even possible? No one was with her at that time, and the rescue team did not arrive until after 10AM.

If there was some kind of sign of life at 5:10am, did she have an apple watch or the like? Is that in an article anywhere?

I, too, feel like if the 5:10 (very specific!) timestamp excists, then it is likely something digital: a smartwatch, maybe trying to use her phone (of she had it, I have a feeling she did not). But could also be movement detected from some camera (we don't know, if the rescuers were keeping an eye on her via some non-public camera or similar).

 

[RedHaus]

When the prosecutors says "forgetting to cover her with the emergency blankets", whose words are those? If they are Thomas', then sure, negligence. If not, if Thomas were to insist he DID cover her, and no one believes him because any coverings are gone, that is different and leaves a question. To me, at least.

Of course we, the public, have no access to TP's own words about what happened.

Only people TP's told, LE, prosecutors, his lawyers know his full story. And I suspect none of those people know the truth. IMO, the only person who knew the truth was KG. TP's words alone may not help, as they can not be fully substantiated.

So, we must rely on what has been publicly reported by MSM, climbing media outlets, and interviews with local alpine experts who know more than we do.

Of all that, the video statements by Peter Suntinger, a local mountaineering guide who has climbed Glossglockner over 200 times, posted ^^, are compelling.

He stated without ambiguity that the emergency equipment that could have protected KG from wind and cold was NOT deployed. And that the moment TP left KG it was her death sentence.

No one here will be able to produce TP's own words, as you've requested. But even if someone did, I'd tend to believe LE and other experts more than TP. IMO.

ET: fix format and grammar.

 

[Ghostwheel]

@Ghostwheel

I have traveled to Bavaria in 2024 and we also went to Salzburg.

The answer is yes, amazing coverage for both AT@T and T-mobile that once split off Deutschetelecom. T-mobile is the cheapest one for this reason.

But, for Austrian residents, with their local carriers they use, the coverage is great on that mountain. And in Alps.
So pay attention, in Thomas's statement, nowhere Mr. Jelinek his lawyer says that Thomas didn't answer because he had poor connection. He says, he didn't feel the vibration of the phone and later blames the rescuers. But poor connection is not ever mentioned.

Thank you. I was curious because there are lots of places in the US that have spotty coverage. Or one day there is coverage and the next day not so much. I lose coverage a lot. Some of that is my particular phone, some is not.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Of course we, the public, have no access to TP's own words about what happened.

Only people TP's told, LE, prosecutors, his lawyers know his full story. And I suspect none of those people know the truth. IMO, the only person who knew the truth was KG. TP's words alone may not help, as they can not be fully substantiated.

So, we must rely on what has been publicly reported by MSM, climbing media outlets, and interviews with local alpine experts who know more than we do.

Of all that, the video statements by Peter Suntinger, a local mountaineering guide who has climbed Glossglockner over 200 times, posted ^^, are compelling.

He stated without ambiguity that the emergency equipment that could have protected KG from wind and cold was NOT deployed. And that the moment TP left KG it was her death sentence.

No one here will be able to produce TP's own words, as you've requested. But even if someone did, I'd tend to believe LE and other experts more than TP. IMO.

ET: fix format and grammar.

Thank you. I saw those, but he wasn't there, so how does he know that there were not some deployed that blew away? All he can say would be she had none when they found her unless he has other information I cannot find. It's like if you put a cover on your car and it blows away, but you have a spare cover in your garage, does that mean you never put the original cover on your car? I'm sure it will eventually come out. I was hoping there was a definitive answer out there, but I have not found one just yet.

 

[georgiajean]

Thank you. I saw those, but he wasn't there, so how does he know that there were not some deployed that blew away? All he can say would be she had none when they found her unless he has other information I cannot find. It's like if you put a cover on your car and it blows away, but you have a spare cover in your garage, does that mean you never put the original cover on your car? I'm sure it will eventually come out. I was hoping there was a definitive answer out there, but I have not found one just yet.

You bring up an interesting point. I would think that if someone was in a Biv Sac, that would not blow off?
She was found with her backpack and split board still on her back. Everything I have heard says that he would have taken this off of her and wrapped her up---that having the backpack and board still on her made it harder for her, not easier. That she would have been losing more heat through that. But I do not know.

 

[planet]

RSBM
Oh, rest assured that is not missing information.

Article after article and interview after interview with alpine experts familiar with the case, posted across these 20 pages, cite a consistent fact: TP and KG had Emergency Thermal Blankets AND a Bivvy Wrap that were NOT deployed to save KG. Further, some reporting states TP took that equipment with him when he left KG.

This more strongly suggests to me that she was already dead or close to death (in his judgement). It's not that he left the equipment behind and failed to cover her out of haste, a lapse in judgement, selfishness, or deliberate cruelty. It suggests that he took the equipment with him because he gauged she no longer needed it.

I believe it would be a very rational and sensible decision for anyone whose climbing partner had died to (1) leave and (2) take the equipment. TP may have found himself in an "Oh !" situation through a combination of judgement errors, KG's inexperience, her flu, and events we just don't know about it. If she died, and he decided quite reasonably to take the equipment and save himself, then tell rescuers that she had already died, the events as we know them might make more sense. However, his claim that she was alive, yet he abandoned her (instead of staying with her while calling for rescue), and he took the equipment (instead of wrapping her in it), does not pass the sniff test. It sets off our radar that something isn't right in his account.

 

[RedHaus]

Thank you. I saw those, but he wasn't there, so how does he know that there were not some deployed that blew away? All he can say would be she had none when they found her unless he has other information I cannot find. It's like if you put a cover on your car and it blows away, but you have a spare cover in your garage, does that mean you never put the original cover on your car? I'm sure it will eventually come out. I was hoping there was a definitive answer out there, but I have not found one just yet.

I understand your question. It seems the only way you will get a satisfactory answer is to follow TP's trial, read the trial transcript, and/or get a copy of his deposition by the prosecution. Clearly the prosecution is satisfied with their findings enough to charge TP did not cover KG. That is outlined from MSM reporting, on p1 of this thread.

Further, what I can say from my life experience, is that a very experienced, successful, and respected mountaineering guide who is local to Grossglockner, like Peter, would not risk his reputation by telling something false. So it is clear to me he KNOWS it is fact that they did not deploy any life saving thermal blankets or bivvy wrap.

IMO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

You bring up an interesting point. I would think that if someone was in a Biv Sac, that would not blow off?
She was found with her backpack and split board still on her back. Everything I have heard says that he would have taken this off of her and wrapped her up---that having the backpack and board still on her made it harder for her, not easier. That she would have been losing more heat through that. But I do not know.

Yes, that part about the backpack and board is bothersome. Unless she said she could get herself wrapped up, but even then, I wouldn't leave someone until I knew they were safe, under normal conditions. Under freezing conditions at that altitude, I have no idea what I would do. But as to coverings, as in blankets, if you are still conscious and physically freezing to death, people sometimes feel hot and remove layers. It's so hard for me to believe a person would leave anyone unprotected, I would just like to know for sure.

 

[georgiajean]

The actual press release from TP's lawyer. „Situation war aussichtslos“: Partner von toter Bergsteigerin meldet sich zu Wort

I believe they are going after the search and rescue to cast doubt on the prosecution's case. Unless the prosecution has recordings of the phone calls, that doubt may work. But I don't know how Austrian SAR works. In US, there are always recordings.

 

[RedHaus]

It's so hard for me to believe a person would leave anyone unprotected, I would just like to know for sure.

RSBM
Yes, evil is very hard to comprehend and accept. And so is a malignant narcissist.

As @planet, myself and OP's have opined, perhaps KG was already deceased when TP abandoned her. That helps make sense of this tragedy.

 

[georgiajean]

Yes, that part about the backpack and board is bothersome. Unless she said she could get herself wrapped up, but even then, I wouldn't leave someone until I knew they were safe, under normal conditions. Under freezing conditions at that altitude, I have no idea what I would do. But as to coverings, as in blankets, if you are still conscious and physically freezing to death, people sometimes feel hot and remove layers. It's so hard for me to believe a person would leave anyone unprotected, I would just like to know for sure.

It is very true that hypothermia causes odd behaviors, and since she was left alone from 2 am to 10 am, a lot could have happened in those 8 hours. TP does not dispute that he waved the helicopter away at 10:30 pm. It is said that he "forgot" to wrap her up.
We will know when the trial occurs what the prosecution has for evidence. It is very rare for them to press these charges in these circumstances, so I have read. That leads me to believe they have rock solid evidence for all 9 of the listed mistakes.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I understand your question. It seems the only way you will get a satisfactory answer is to follow TP's trial, read the trial transcript, and/or get a copy of his deposition by the prosecution. Clearly the prosecution is satisfied with their findings enough to charge TP did not cover KG. That is outlined from MSM reporting, on p1 of this thread.

Further, what I can say from my life experience, is that a very experienced, successful, and respected mountaineering guide who is local to Grossglockner, like Peter, would not risk his reputation by telling something false. So it is clear to me he KNOWS it is fact that they did not deploy any life saving thermal blankets or bivvy wrap.

IMO.

You are probably correct that I need to see what comes out in trial. In reading around, I see there was a statement out there at one point, but it seems to have been pulled when he was charged. Maybe I can find it.

And I acknowledge we have different life experiences. Expert or no are only as good as what they know or have been told. And what people get told are often spins on the actual words.

Again, I'm not saying Thomas didn't do wrongs things. I am just trying to figure out which wrong things, how wrong, and what can be learned from this. I'm not seeing someone intending on leading his girlfriend to her death. But maybe I'm seeing someone who should never be a partner for another climber again. JMO. I'm still figuring out the mountaineers rules, as they seem to matter.

Thank you.

 

[RedHaus]

I'm still figuring out the mountaineers rules, as they seem to matter.

Indeed. We all are going down that path to make sense of this case.

But one mountaineering rule we now know, especially for a peak of this 'modest' size (relative to K2 or Everest) is that a mountaineer DOES NOT abandon their partner or team member.

As Peter Suntiger, the local guide, said in his interview posted ^^, he ONLY, leaves a partner if he knows he'll return in an hour or that rescue will arrive in an hour.

TP failed at that rule exponentially.

 

[georgiajean]

Regarding "faint signs of life"

https://www.reddit.com/r/alpinism/comments/1i616r6/young_woman_freezes_to_death_on_the_gro

Due to the wind, the helicopter could only reach an altitude of about 3,200 meters, where it dropped off the rescue team, who then continued on foot toward the summit. It took six rescuers five hours to reach the woman. According to the latest reports, the woman showed faint signs of life when the helicopter initially took off.

 

[georgiajean]

It is worth noting that translation of articles may contribute to misinformation. In this article, both climbers are said to have had skis/snowboards. So all our conjecture about why he didn't have skis may be for naught.

Eiseskälte wurde für Flachgauerin zur Todesfalle

Neues rund um das Kälte-Drama am Großglockner: Die Todesursache der Salzburgerin steht nun auch offiziell fest. Die Polizei ermittelt weiter gegen ...

www.bing.com

 

[Ghostwheel]

Indeed. We all are going down that path to make sense of this case.

But one mountaineering rule we now know, especially for a peak of this 'modest' size (relative to K2 or Everest) is that a mountaineer DOES NOT abandon their partner or team member.

As Peter Suntiger, the local guide, said in his interview posted ^^, he ONLY, leaves a partner if he knows he'll return in an hour or that rescue will arrive in an hour.

TP failed at that rule exponentially.

I am given to understand an exception to this rule is in the extreme conditions of the "death zone" on very high mountains. In these circumstances, the human body cannot survive for long, cognitive function is impaired, and attempting a difficult rescue may jeopardize the lives of the rescuers as well. But I would suppose a "death zone" might depend as much on the weather or situation as the elevation. Just a guess though. It makes sense. No point in everyone dying, because then there is no chance of help. But then I must assume Peter Suntiger never was in that position, or more likely would make SURE he was not put in that position.

 

[Greenestdays]

I, too, feel like if the 5:10 (very specific!) timestamp excists, then it is likely something digital: a smartwatch, maybe trying to use her phone (of she had it, I have a feeling she did not). But could also be movement detected from some camera (we don't know, if the rescuers were keeping an eye on her via some non-public camera or similar).

Maybe the heli had a thermal camera and there was still a heat signal?

I’m thinking about the quick exit by him after he decided to leave her. Could it be that during the 1,5h that he was sitting with K, he was having a meal (possibly had a primus and some food/drink to heat up). So he warmed himself up, ate and rested and climbed the rest of the way in good time? Absolute conjecture of course, but somehow he had the energy to get down safely after everything and that adds another layer of suspicion for me.

 

[planet]

TP's trial is set for February 19, 2026 at Innsbruck Regional Court.