Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[beubeubeu]

Impressive summary of the "facts." Thank you!
I had gotten frustrated by the lack of consistency across reports, and I wondered if it was related to multiple language translations.

It doesnt get better in German and Austrian sources.
But just cause its in German doesnt mean that author relied on other German language sources. Relying on time is also iffy cause many have some later edits or its uncertain if they were edited or not.
Its just a mess and unexplainable just with language, cause numbers and hours vary so much.

IMO, that's the reality of social media: firestorms of rumour, speculation, 2nd hand emotions and fierce opinions. No interest in facts. No interest in admitting 'I wasn't actually there, so I don't really know what happened'.

Its not a matter of anybodys opinion when a huge news source publish an article which says that x thing happened at 0:30 AM or who called who.
We have languages and words that we can use. If its uncertain, its possible to state "sometime between hour x and y" or "after midnight".
No need to admit that authors werent actually there, there is no such expectations from a news source to only have journalists who were on the spot as something happened to write news articles. Only reporters can do that, occasionally.

Also, if the dead person were a male friend, IMO the response would be very different.

JMO

I dont think so.
The coverage would be likely much weaker cause vast majority of hikers are men so story about men would be less likely judged as front page news worthy.
With similar coverage reactions likely would be similar, but mixed couples of climbers are getting much more attention.
In 2018 Elisabeth Revol left her male companion on Nanga Parbat and tried to descend but she would die there too if it didnt happened to be that there were two climbers on another mountain (K2), adjusted to the altitude, willing and capable to go and try to get her. It also happened that Pakistani army was able to send helicopter to get them from K2 to Nanga Parbat where they could climb (for hours) to reach her. She wasnt able to move anymore when they got to her. They were able to get her down, she survived.
Similarly big coverage in media, and lots of passionate discussions.
Thomas here has like 50:50 sympathy vs. vilification.
She had it like 30:70 that she murdered her companion despite of needing rescue herself.
Most these events dont cause that much emotional reaction from people cause people just dont know about it. Or theyre getting the news, but there is nothing to discuss apart from going straight to sharing what people think and feel about climbing mountains in general, not about the specific event.

 

[RedHaus]

Thomas P. is not charged cause he left her behind.
Hes charged cause he's on the video surveillance, not moving in any direction since 8:50 PM

This!

I believe there was premeditation and TP did not know about the CCTV trained on the mountain. His movements are data.

This has nothing to do with the widely accepted survival tactic on mountains twice as tall as this Austrian peak.

He did not leave KG behind to survive. TP waited until 3:30am, ~5 hours after he left KG, to call for help for her, not himself.

He got caught with clear evidence, IMO.

And his defense is likely scrambling to explain these data -- ignorance? his own hypothermia? blaming KG herself?

IMO.
ET: fix format

 

[Charlot123]

But its not what happened. He didn't leave her to summit.
We cant be sure, but looking at the timeline... if he actually DID leave her to summit the moment she wasnt able to walk farther and wend down the other way to the exact same spot where he called emergency the second time... it likely would be still possible for helicopter to go for her.

There is no implication that he wanted to be a guide and no implication that he was guiding anyone. I think they mean it more in a way that he ended up as a guide in a way that anyone who knows the area/circumstances/topic/whatever best ends up as a guide for their companions.

Thats no way to become a guide. Allowing her to go in snowboarding boots, starting after dawn would more likely ban him from becoming a certified guide ever than work in his favor.

Years experience in climbing high mountains + courses + climbing training + skiing training + several theoretical and practical courses (gear, climbing techniques, geology of Alps and so on) + internship with other certified guides + several exams.
Pretty sure (but not absolutely sure) that any guiding related legal offences are closing that path completely. So a person cant become an alpine guide or stay alpine guide if they will commit climbing-related negligence.

It was -8*C not -20*C.
-20*C was the approx. temp experienced near the peak with the frost and wind combined.

No way.

And I mean "no way" in a way that any of that would help him to became a guide in reality. He very well might have these theoretical visions and goals in his mind, but snowboarding down the mountain may count as "innovative" for someone who knows the mountain, summited few times, learned the terrain and weather from the exact area, and who does that by themselves not for a companion of such person, and definitely not for a companion of a person who doesnt know the mountain.

Btw. Im still combing through these articles and there is nothing clear about that snowboarding down plan. Its not clear from where it came from. Was it Kerstin who shared that with someone? On her social media possibly? To a friend? Ot is it his claim? Or somebodys "best guess"?
Cause what she had was splitboard, so snowboard that can also be split into a pair of skis. But as Im now thinking - it doesnt clearly imply that she had an intention of some wild ride down the slope straight from the peak, could be and likely was intended just for some part of their trail down...

You see, this case looks so bad that in my mind, the question lies between “did he plan her to die?” or “was he so egotistical that he planned an extremely dangerous winter ascent on a mountain he had already been to, for own thrill but with a total novice in mountain climbing, but being self-conceited, he simply didn’t think of his partner at and ultimately abandoned her in a very bad situation? Was she even alive when he left her alone?”

And yes, you are right, there is the question of “what happened in the mountain between 8:50 pm and 10:30 pm? Why did he wave off the first helicopter at 10:30 pm and only called at 12:30 am?” And his cellphone issues.

IMHO, it looks like “gross negligent manslaughter” case, but whether “premeditated” or “not”, I don’t know.

Do you have any idea why he behaved so horribly? There is no rational explanation to it.

 

[RedHaus]

Im still combing through these articles and there is nothing clear about that snowboarding down plan. Its not clear from where it came from.

I called this out up thread from a Climbing magazine article an OP posted - page 2 perhaps?

The author did some deep digging in LE, SARs and Court records to find nuggets such as this. He also interviewed several alpine climbing experts and guides. Worth a read.

p.s. according to that article it was only KG who wore snowboarding boots and carried a snowboard, and planned to descend by skiing down the other side.

ET: fix formatting

 

[Charlot123]

Okay, I give up.
This is crazy.
Some sources say that they were first seen stuck below the peak sometime around 20:50 (8:50 PM)
But then another shows time stamped ss from surveillance, showing them at the spot at 19:30 (7:30 PM)
And some claim they stopped climbing after 22:00 (10:00 PM)
View attachment 630205

EVERYTHING related to the actual hours of events is so around the place that I cant understand how it could get so mixed up.
So a guy whos 36 or 39
Who has moderate or excellent Alpine climbing experience
Had his girlfriend start feeling unwell sometime between noon and 10 PM
Had his gf stuck below the peak and unable to move sometime between 7:30 PM and 10 PM
Called rescue services and beg for help sometime between "30ish mins later", 0:30 AM and 2:00 AM
Was or wasnt repeatedly called by rescue services before that
His call for help either wasnt verbally expressed during the call, wasnt understood or got ignored.
They either had some sort of camp below the summit or they didnt
In which or without which he stayed for sometime between 30 mins and 6 hours before going up without her
Then either he wasnt able to get an rescue services on call or they werent able to conntact him cause he kept ignoring these calls
Helicopter either flew to their rescue sometime before midnight or it just happened to pass the mountain
During that flight people in helicopter either saw the couple turn their heads away or they didnt
Then Thomas P. called for help again sometime around 2:30 or 3:30 AM
Heli either flew there again before that happened, or tried to do so after that call or havent tried to do so cause weather was too bad
And then rescue team climbed to Kerstin but as they got to her around 8,9,10 OR 11 AM, she already froze
The only consistent info could be that she wasnt sheltered or covered from the elements in any way... but its not cause there is also a mention of some sort of camp here and there

Excellent coverage I must say.
Something happened.
Kristen died.
Her boyfriend either acted like a cold blooded, sociopathic murderer or like a boyfriend who tried to get help for her.
And it either seems crazy and unjust that theyre charging him with anything, or crazy and unjust that they arent charging him with first degree murder.

I get how some details may vary, but what on Earth were those people's sources that the timeline looks like they all made it relying on random hour generator?
Ive tried to group links, like which source says what, but its just so all around the place its ridiculous.

Edit: btw, cherry on top - two articles claim it happened in 2024, not 2025.

I would like to know two things, and I don’t know where to find them yet.

- his alpine climbing experience - is it logged anywhere?

- what do other people who went into the mountains with him say about him? (This may be known only at court).

- also, in the US, sometimes we know about additional motives (e.g., insurance) before the trial, but I doubt it will be the case.

 

[justtrish]

Could the time discrepancies be due to maybe reporting in UTC and trying to change it to local time or maybe people writing the articles not realizing it needed to be changed and others changing it? I know some security cameras show UTC. I recall in the Morphew case so much was UTC and needed to be changed to the local time.

 

[Charlot123]

Yeah. The problem is that exact same thing gets people to achieve their challenging goals like 99% of the time and it's very hard to tell a difference between pushing through moment of weakness and pushing through warning signs that it's getting bad. Its hard to have that level of self awareness in circumstances that are almost always different (in some way/s) than previous experiences.

Same thing. As you go through all the tragic outcomes or what ended up with search for a person or required some form of rescue you can see/learn that it applies to almost all these events. But as you go through the totality of these quick hikes, majority of them ends up mostly okay.
Which is great - that they end up okay. And would be pretty good if tese people had the mindset of I took a risk, I came out of it okay so Im very happy about it, but I wont be doing that in the future or to the very least shut up about it and keep my own irresponsible preferences to myself. But no. Those people tend to immediately start to act like they proved all these chickens who brag about appropriate gear/clothing/supplies WRONG and they start preaching themselves to the holy heavens. To who? Not to the people who insist on the importance of having proper gear and supplies - cause they wont agree or wont listen. They tend to "educate" those who dont know, who never climbed or took a serious hike yet or dont know the area.
And the moment somebody gets hurt, theyre first to jump straight into "oh, they should've known better".

What would you charge a folk who left their teammate to die on Mount Everest with? There is 0% of chance that staying with an injured/sick companion on the slope of Mount Everest can save their life. Any successful rescue missions on such high mountains were successful only cause the teammates left their companions - securing them as well from wind, cold and snow as possible (if it was possible) and notifying other people that were able to climb up and help.

Thomas P. is not charged cause he left her behind.
Hes charged cause he's on the video surveillance, not moving in any direction since 8:50 PM, not trying to call for help despite of having phone reception, not weaving for help to helicopter and not using the gear that he had to protect her from cold.

It absolutely should be a new trend and I hope people will be getting charged as now we have technology and at least in some cases it becomes possible to verify that something doesnt add up in some stories and its not all "what happens in the mountains, stays in the mountains".
Its scary in the aspect of possibly charging people who did nothing wrong, but that kinda applies to everything.
And at least some people tend to control themselves better and make much better judgement while aware that there may be consequences. With sheer numbers. More people survive traffic accidents and heart attacks on the streets if witnesses can be punished for minding their own business and not trying to call an ambulance or do CPR than if it relies solely on their will to do it.

Not related to Plamberger’s decision, his is something special.

In general: are we seeing “the factor of numbers” in the mountains? 40-50 years ago, alpinists were a smaller bunch, highly trained, aware of other climbers around the world. In that time, it was a normal move to try and help someone in dire straights, there are many examples to it. Surely one should try to save lives when one can?

Yet something changed today, and I think it is not people becoming that different. Rather, the sport itself became both more widespread and more expensive. (Also: people ascending up on the Everest, seeing bodies lying around, not removed for decades, either understand how easy it is to die and are in survival mode, or maybe, it is also “with the money I paid, I want to get to the summit” mentality.) I think more pressure has to be on the Nepalese mountain climbing commercial companies and helicopter rescuing ones, too, for better safety algorithms. Also, in each case when one group abandons their member and another decides to help him, the thinking process of both has to be discussed. (I recently witnessed discussions about another highly publicized death in Pamir, and the people split between: “I don’t understand her rush” and “the poor guy who tried to help her and died”; IMHO, the level or preparedness of the tourist company had to be more in the focus.)

 

[acutename]

It seems there is a certain type of active outdoors person who enjoys dragging those less capable (inexperienced, unfit, too young) into dangerous situations. Why? Perhaps to prove their superiority or control. Perhaps as a “punishment” for perceived misbehaviour. Perhaps to play out a “saviour complex “ I heard someone refer to it as “assault by nature.”

He may not have intended to kill her, but I’m sure he knew she’d essentially be at his mercy at some point during the climb.

curious if he did winter climbing before. The pictures of him climbing are summer pictures. Winter is just unforgiving IMO.

 

[acutename]

Possible theories:

- Thomas is so self-absorbed that he didn’t even pay much attention to Kerstin’s preparedness, just didn’t think of her at all. He had already ascended Grossglockner before and was fixated on what “he” needed. It culminated in leaving Kerstin alone when she became a “burden” in the mountains as his goal was to summit.

- a different, scary possibility. As an uncertified guide, Thomas had to guide other people. Did he, perhaps, slowly increase the risk level with each new person? Was it a very special kind of thrill that he pushed? Culminating in: the “maximum risk with minimally prepared person”? If Kerstin summited successfully, would his new climb with her, or someone else, be even more risky?

- or did he simply took Kerstin along because he needed to lead a certain amount of groups in the mountains to get credited as the official “group guide”?

Let us think about it. Plamberger was an “experienced” climber, and a guide, but not a certified one. The highest official certifications are IFMGA or AMGA. I looked through them. Was Thomas trying to get “credits” to eventually become a certified guide, to make money on his hobby? And did one of the requirements include “experience with leading groups”?

I looked up the requirements of becoming an alpine mountain guide in Austria.

It is a little bit vague but trainings are spread over years. I wonder if “leading groups” is what he was pursuing? Two people make a group.

Becoming A Mountain Guide | Susi Süßmeier | Part 1

‘The most beautiful job in the world? To be out in the mountains. To do what others pay money for, and earn money in the process. Sounds like a dream, doesn't it? But what do you have to do for it? And does the fun really come without a down side?‘ In part 1 of this 4-part series, certified...

us.mountain-equipment.com

Lastly, I looked into “mountain climbing Oscars”, and please correct me if I wrong but here is how I understood it. In the time when oxygen is allowed to climb, climbing gets physically less stressful. So the emphasis shifts towards “innovative”, “style, spirit, creativity and technical difficulty”.

Piolets d'Or - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So maybe Thomas was emulating “increased technical difficulty” (starting later, summiting at night, in winter, - 20C for a purpose,to make it “technically difficult”?). Was snowboarding down meant to be “innovative”? And the “girlfriend” was also a “group” because “technically difficult climbing in a group” was needed for him to get another credit for guide accreditation?

I would like to know if she was an accomplished snow boarder. Snowboarding or skiing down seems like fun and efficient but that mountain looks like a bear and its not you know- groomed- you could fly off a cliff of go into a crevasse and flat out die pretty easily. There are all these dare devil ski videos that are either shot by experienced teams that make it look easy or they are not and that is another area of danger that kills people every year. Were these two wearing helmets?

 

[RedHaus]

Below is the Climbing.com article @Charlot123 posted on page 2, and where I saw the 'KG planned to snowboard her descent' information.

Given the depth of research this author did, including LE and court records, and interviews with alpine experts, I choose to lean on his timeline.

18-01-25

6:45am - start their climb up and over Grossglockner summit (3,770m/12,370ft)

1:30pm - arrived at the “Breakfast Spot”, a key 'turnaround spot' (3,550m/11,319ft). They are ~220m/1,000ft from summit.

10:30pm - nine hours later they're still climbing (TP's defense does not explain what they did for 9 hours of climbing)

Note: at this point wind speeds are cresting 46 mph and temperatures at -4°F

10:30pm or 10:50pm (LE and TP's defense time accounts differ) - an alpine police helicopter flew over and shone its lights on them, TP made no signs of distress, and the couple continued

Note: The prosecution notes alpine rescue services made “several attempts” to contact TP after the police helicopter flew over him, to which he did not respond, though he had service and received the calls. TP says his phone was on 'vibrate'.

12:35pm - Rescuers received a return call from TP but accounts of what was said on this call differ. LE says the conversation was “unclear” and TP then put his phone back into his pocket on silent. TP says “he was convinced the mountain police officer was aware... rescue was urgently needed.”

TP and KG are located on a snow ramp 30m/100ft below the Grossglockner summit.

2:00am - TP leaves KG. He says they decided their best option was for him to summit and descend to a hut for help.

3:30am - TP makes a 2nd call to rescue.

Note: On this call, TP informed them that he’d had to leave KG behind, “suggested sending another helicopter” to get her. But by now, the storms were so bad a helicopter rescue was out of the question. When rescuers arrived at KG's location on foot the following morning, they found her frozen to death.

Climber Faces Homicide Charges After His Partner Dies. When Does a Bad Decision Become a Crime?

A 36-year-old Austrian climber could be jailed for up to three years after leaving his girlfriend to die on the nation's highest peak.

www.climbing.com

ET: adjust formatting and fix typos

 

[RedHaus]

I am sickened by the tragedy of KG's death.

I wonder when she died?

Was KG deceased at 2am when TP left her?

Is that why TP did not remove KG's pack, find her wind shelter, put her in a bivvy, and / or wrap her with thermal blankets he had? Because she'd died?

I posit, KG may have died by 2am, IMO.

ETA: clarity

 

[beubeubeu]

And his defense is likely scrambling to explain these data -- ignorance? his own hypothermia? blaming KG herself?

How ignorant can a person be after years of climbing? Even with some sort of immense persistence to avoid and resist all the knowledge and experience a person HAS to gain by their own actions and words/actions of other people + what it seems pretty active social media presence as passionate Alpine climber?
I can buy that ignorant can go climbing once, twice or maybe even thrice disregarding all possible safety precautions and voices and reason and still be okay cause of incredible luck. Any more its just beyond all possible odds.

And from where that hypothermia would came from and where it would fade away and why?
Cause guy whos not sick (and he wasnt), not injured (he wasnt) with good clothing and shoes wont get hypothermia after 12 hour hike in just few degrees below 0 celsius unless idk, some random dude on his way back from groccery store with a plan to chill at home after dinner, kidnapped straight from the street and forced to hike and climb a mountain.
Apart from some loony scenario like that, with unexpecting, unprepared and tired after a long day of work guy its very unlikely that it could happen.
-8*C and -20*C experienced its how it dropped during the night and including the wind exposition close to the peak. It wasnt that rough before.
And if it did happen, and if he was indeed hypotermic and confused at the time she couldnt go farther - it would keep getting worse and worse. Best case scenario at 3PM his body would be purple-blue color and he would be barely able to move. Getting warmer would hurt like hell and he would be very much in need of medical attention.

How could he blame her more than he does claiming that they were so equal that they stayed equal even as she was just lying there, unable to move? That she mentally forced him? Sure. Good luck for his legal team to look at other examples of climbers mentally forced to change their climbing ways to more reckless by newbie climbing gf.

 

[Charlot123]

I am sickened by the tragedy of KG's death.

I wonder when she died?

Was KG deceased at 2am when TP left her?

Is that why TP did not remove KG's pack, find her wind shelter, put her in a bivvy, and / or wrap her with thermal blankets he had? Because she'd died?

I posit, KG may have died by 2am, IMO.

ETA: clarity

It definitely looks so. Alternatively, she was not dead yet but close to it and Plamberger left her like this to accelerate the process. No calls till 3:30 am seems to point at it as well.

 

[Charlot123]

I have a question to anyone who ever climbed in the Austrian Alps.

What are the rules about the registration for the climb? Before the ascent, do climbers register all of the group, their names and their phone numbers, somewhere? In a logbook or a website?

Here is what I have noticed. The first rescue helicopter flew above them at 10:30 (10:50 per other sources) and Thomas waved it off. Then the pilots tried to get in touch with Thomas via his phone but he did not answer. So the rescue team knew his phone number, meaning, he left it somewhere (theoretically, people climbing up almost 4 kilometers, should leave their information somewhere; for all of them).

But Kerstin Gurtner, another climber, should have registered herself somewhere, too. Right? Likely left her phone number.

Did the helicopter crew attempt to contact her? (Logically, they should have). Did she answer her phone? At any time?

Or did Thomas register only himself and a "group"? Did anyone have her cellphone number?

I find it unlikely that she didn't take the phone with her. She had Apple watch, too. Did the crew have her information?

So depending on the situation, there may be versions:

- Thomas registered himself and a "group" and left one contact number (possible). Then he waved off 10:30 rescue helicopter and did not answer the phone.

- He left their both names and numbers. Logically, the crew had to attempt hers, too... what then? Did Kerstin never answer? When was her last phone contact with anyone?

- If the crew had her number, then what happened between 2 and3:30? Did Thomas leave Kerstin's phone with her? Or did he take it with him?

- There is a chance that she had only Apple watch and planned to use cellphone as remote, but the connection was bad for the watch in the mountains. But then, it is a very bad decisions made prior to the climb, and I wonder if Thomas misinformed her.

 

[sunspun]

All good questions. From what I've read Thomas trekked to the summit, apparently to seek help by descending the other side. And I have no idea if that has any validating logic as a suitable plan.

My suspicion, perhaps from his arrest, is that he summitted to attain his goal, choosing not to descend from their location ~150 feet below the summit for more immediate help for Kerstin.

Oh that's a terrible thought, but I'm afraid I think that sounds like what he did. Which makes his role in her death much worse, imo. At the very least, he's guilty of being inconsiderate of her while she was in a life or death situation.

But maybe he didn't realize what bad shape she was in, or how risky it was for her to stay there where she was.

But seems like he should have, being the more experienced climber.

 

[beubeubeu]

Do you have any idea why he behaved so horribly? There is no rational explanation to it.

I dont. Either he was making sure she wont get out of this alive or info that we have is wrong and incomplete.

p.s. according to that article it was only KG who wore snowboarding boots and carried a snowboard, and planned to descend by skiing down the other side.

Oh yeah, right. thats the thing that all sources agreed on: that it was only her.
There is no mention of ski poles. If she also had ski poles, it may be as "innocent" as considering to split the splitboard and walk down in skis at parts of the trail where its possible and may be more convenient.
But we dont know how it looks like and how she thought it looks like/will look like then.

I would totally consider taking splitboard instead of skis (cause smaller and easy/possible to carry) if I expected that I might be too tired to walk reasonable pace on the not-very-steep way back. But Im no snowboarder or skiier, so no matter what I couldnt possibly consider actually skiing/snowboarding way down anything.

I would like to know two things, and I don’t know where to find them yet.

- his alpine climbing experience - is it logged anywhere?

Yes, he is on the most popular app related to most popular sport smartwatches, but its set to private and other profiles are now deleted or also set to private.

Not related to Plamberger’s decision, his is something special.

In general: are we seeing “the factor of numbers” in the mountains? 40-50 years ago, alpinists were a smaller bunch, highly trained, aware of other climbers around the world. In that time, it was a normal move to try and help someone in dire straights, there are many examples to it. Surely one should try to save lives when one can?

I dont know, but I dont think so.
40-50 years ago we only had highely redacted stories from those who managed to came back and lots of controversies if one or another climber really succeeded or faked his summiting. Gear was horrible and much heavier, rescue possibilities were scarce. Also my impression is only as accurate as my random choice of books was (so not very, rather random) but 50 years ago and earlier majority of climbers were kinda rich elite so there was also a social factor to it.
Now theoretically if someone is in ultra great physical shape and REALLY wants to climb Mount Everest, they can save every penny, sell everything, ask for donations, get bit of sponsorship maybe and if theyre really persistent they can. In 1975 much much much lower chances of that, in some countries essentially no chance.
(...)
Waters down to: I think thats combination of many factors, "numbers" being just one of them.

Below is the Climbing.com article @Charlot123 posted on page 2, and where I saw the 'KG planned to snowboard her descent' information.

Given the depth of research this author did, including LE and court records, and interviews with alpine experts, I choose to lean on his timeline.

Im not going back to the articles, but I stumbled on almost exact same thing in German

10:30pm - nine hours later they're still climbing (TP's defense does not explain what they did for 9 hours of climbing)

If it was indeed 10:30PM or 10:50PM that they were "still climbing" then why anyone was trying to call them? It may be stressfull to see climbers that time of night but hardly enough to search for their car, number and consider rescue mission if theyre still climbing.

Anyways.

Who in however right or wrong mind would even agree to go there with someone wearing snowboarding boots?
Theyre not that great with longtime cold insulation, not particularly waterproof and theyre horrible, painful to walk long distances.

 

[beubeubeu]

This is even better, most detailed overview.

And this guy is skiing way down...

 

[ItalyReader]

12:35pm - Rescuers received a return call from TP but accounts of what was said on this call differ.

Minor typo - I believe the article says 12:35 am instead of pm

I’m also very interested in the communications via cellphone and helicopter - how were they triggered, how did they have his number (did he call first or was he registered etc), what is policy for observing hikers’ progress on the mountain and reacting/activating rescue resources.

I do believe calls would have been extremely difficult due to wind, extremely low temps and frozen fingers, etc. Not an excuse, but an element.

I’m also wondering about possible multiple factors in her cause of death. If she died of exposure, would an autopsy be able to reveal other pre-death states such as hypoxia or edema (cerebral/pulmonary)?

 

[Charlot123]

.

Also, if the dead person were a male friend, IMO the response would be very different.

JMO

Possibly you are right, but it should not be so.

Men are biologically wired for fast, perhaps impulsive, responses (especially the ones with "slow version" of MAO, "the warrior gene"). So i always assume that for very young men, especially in peer groups, it is easier to get in trouble without planning it. But by 35, "nesting instinct" in men definitely picks up. So, one would expect "wiser" decisions for sure at this age and view Thomas Plamberger as a mindless egotist either way.

I would probably sooner see the pattern of "manipulative" relationship if a guy tried to pull such a stint with his inexperienced BF, btw. So obviously the same word 100% applies to Thomas/Kerstin. He manipulated her into something very dangerous and totally unknown to her.

Also: if the same situation happened to two male friends, I'd ask about the other guy's phone much sooner. "Hey, how come the rescuers did not call the other man's cellphone? Didn't Thomas leave it for alternative contact before getting up? He did not? Didn't he respect the autonomy of the other climber? Oh, the other guy had it on him and never answered? Since what time?" I am surprised that I didn't ask "what happened to Kerstin's phone?" sooner.

Thomas defense is "equal partnership", but the case reeks of utter deprivation of Kerstin's autonomy. What partnership? He drags an altitude-untrained woman on the highest peak of his country in winter night and leaves her there like a broken doll. (BTW, if any man hid a woman's cell phone in the house, he'd end up in jail for robbing her of the only way to call for help.)

It is interesting that i am thinking of her cell phone on page 5. I would have asked these questions much sooner if the deceased were a man.

 

[Mauritius]

One thing I can think the defense might try to say--perhaps the phone wouldn't function if it was in an external pocket, due to it being so cold, so it behaved as if it were off (happened to me once, at sea level, in 0 degree weather in Boston!).
Could also explain why he didn't call for help.

Not sure this sort of defense would hold up, but it

"unless he was also hypothermic and delusional."

That would be my guess. I am shocked that charges are being filed against him, what a colossal waste of resources. Mountain climbing is incredibly dangerous, IMO.

I hear you, and thinking through this I think the charges are because he claimed he called for rescue when they say it was not clear, so rescue needed to defend and respond that his call was not clear and in so doing they confirmed a rescue effort timeline: The helicopter sent and turned away (or not waived to by the climbers?) , followed by and coupled with his later call that he claimed was for rescue (thus blaming rescue for not saving her) while they claim he was ambiguous in the call, then was not answering their repeated follow up calls where they tried to confirm rescue needed etc.

So, through this odd interaction timeline with rescue (where obv rescue had been needed) he was WELL on the radar of rescue services, and when he maybe implied they didn’t do enough after he called, and they then certainly wanted to clarify they not only DID send helicopter before he called, then tried to call him repeatedly etc… and in the process of their righteous indignation and confirming their timeline of how they did attempt rescue and did everything right … the timeline caught somebody’s notice that it was unusual, normal would be him repeatedly calling rescue back!, there might be something wrong here, even criminal negligence in his part.

Had he just answered the follow up calls, his mistakes and this death would have been treated as an accident and maybe a lesson on being more prepared, but there would not be charges imo.