Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[beubeubeu]

It would be very strange if Kerstin hasnt used her phone at all IF she had it on her.
One of the sources claimed that heli at 7:10 saw faint or slight (hovewer it was phrased) signs of life, which may or may not be accurate.

Oh, and arent we conveniently for Thomas all forgetting that it was mentioned in at least two (I have memory but I dont have receipts) that Thomas works in healthcare?
Nursing home was mentioned? Or something like that.
Also first aid courses are mandatory to get even a drivers licence in Austria (I just recalled that they generally are in Europe and checked).

Lookin great. Just awesome. I dont know how this guy could possibly give me more rage strokes, but Im sure he will if/as more will come out.

Hes no random dude who just happened to climb slight more than Kerstin who seem to do just few climbs.
And hes not only experienced climber but hes highely experienced climber.
And not only that, hes highely experienced with this specific mountain.
He changed details in his story.
He lied.
And hes no random dude who worked as a clerk, waiter, programmer or cook so it might happened to be that he never witnessed a person in medical emergency and could understandably freak out or make an unfortunate decisions.
People who work in healthcare, childcare, nursing care are either changing the way of their career to something less demanding or, almost all able to endure immense pressure and are not losing their sanity over extreme circumstances cause they're experiencing it every day.

Any of these decisions he've made could be explained in so many ways. Even a combo of a few could be explained.
But all that combined, the totality of this quit suggesting me ill will. Now it screams murder.

 

[ex-stat]

The more I read about this the more I'm shocked at his negligence. Re the phone calls, I don't understand why on earth someone wouldn't phone back after half an hour, an hour, if no rescue had showed up in such a dire situation. Or even phoning before he left her to get an update. The first thing I'd do in this situation having contact with rescue is to put my phone on the loudest setting possible (outdoor setting) in order not to miss calls, not put it on silent which seems nuts.

- Also when leaving someone, I would put them in the available pouch they had, wrap them in the blanket, take off their backpack and snow skies and try to shelter them as much as possible from the wind.

- The lack of phone calls is truly crazy. This was obviously a severe emergency situation - the extreme weather, at night, and the fact she could not walk/move any further, being trapped in the place that they were for that length of time. It's inconceivable to think that during this he didn't phone for a few hours when he must've known just how bad the situation was. I would've phoned before I left her, stressed just how bad the situation was, and checked for updates. Not put my phone on silent which just is insane given the situation. Why on earth would you do that?

- The timeline is just horrible. So many missed opportunities to get help.

- I wonder if he was angry with his climb being affected/interrupted and that influenced his decisions. A kind of stubborn anger.

- I can't imagine leaving someone alone in the dark in those conditions in that state. He sounds ultra experienced so surely he would've recognised the gravity of the situation and the potential risks that they were facing?

- Not using the emergency blankets or pouch is shocking and I can't see ANY reasonable explanation for that at all.

- Why on earth wait three whole hours in this situation without calling anyone? (12:35am to 3:30am).

- If they'd sought help at 10:50pm when the helicopter was looking for them it may well have had a different outcome. I can't imagine just sitting there in that weather, not moving, and not realising how dire things were.

- Did he ever phone her to see how she was while he was descending?

- If someone couldn't move/carry on for even half an hour I'd be seriously concerned in those conditions.

- The people in the article who left their friend 'to die' on Everest thought that he was dead and even poked him in the eye to check responses. That's a completely different situation to this.

- It just doesn't seem likely that he didn't recognise the seriousness of the situation, especially given his experience. It's the lack of trying to seek help for that length of time that really gets to me. Given that it took them about nine hours to travel about 150m they must've been struggling severely for a long time. Why, just why, did he not phone when he left her? I can't imagine being in this emergency situation and not answering/ignoring calls from helpers. Why do nothing?

- The whole thing is just shocking and sad. A tragedy that could've been avoided. Awful. RIP.

 

[beubeubeu]

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... what are the odds that its not a duck?

 

[Charlot123]

I can’t figure out how to translate the captions to English- any tips?

Sure.

First, push on YouTube to get to YouTube site with the movie.

Activate CC. Then, next to CC sign to the right of it, there is a control sign. (Looks like a “ball-bearing screw”, no better word in my vocabulary for it.) Hit it, choose Closed Captions and choose “auto translate.”

 

[Charlot123]

My eyes hurt so I really dont want to do this frame by frame, but this is the progress seen via Luckner's cam:

View attachment 631067

18:10 vs 22:30, so 30 mins before heli showed up.
This is how much they've climbed.

View attachment 631069

For better context, bigger picture.
That red dot is how much progress theyve made in FOUR HOURS and TWENTY MINUTES.
Thats 260 minutes.

View attachment 631070

For Thomas that still meant everything is fine.
Well enough to ignore the heli.
Thanks to cams and excellent weather data we know that visibility at some hours went non-existent, then it cleared slightly for a bit so heli went there later.

And that red line visible here may be the first heli that passed them earlier:

View attachment 631071

I can’t guess what he planned to do, but one of the explanations for their poor progress could be trying to make a movie? Everyone seems to make a movie about own ascent, perhaps they were trying to do the same as they went up and hence, were distracted and slow?

 

[RedHaus]

Ehm... how confident we are that it was just Thomas and Kerstin and not more people, some of which at some point decided to try go down... or started going down after something happened?

ETA: RSBM
Excellent question! While not mentioned anywhere in public documents (or even SM for that matter), what if the climb started as a foursome or six pack? And the others bailed at the Breakfast Place.

 

[JennieM]

The more I read about this the more I'm shocked at his negligence. Re the phone calls, I don't understand why on earth someone wouldn't phone back after half an hour, an hour, if no rescue had showed up in such a dire situation. Or even phoning before he left her to get an update. The first thing I'd do in this situation having contact with rescue is to put my phone on the loudest setting possible (outdoor setting) in order not to miss calls, not put it on silent which seems nuts.

- Also when leaving someone, I would put them in the available pouch they had, wrap them in the blanket, take off their backpack and snow skies and try to shelter them as much as possible from the wind.

- The lack of phone calls is truly crazy. This was obviously a severe emergency situation - the extreme weather, at night, and the fact she could not walk/move any further, being trapped in the place that they were for that length of time. It's inconceivable to think that during this he didn't phone for a few hours when he must've known just how bad the situation was. I would've phoned before I left her, stressed just how bad the situation was, and checked for updates. Not put my phone on silent which just is insane given the situation. Why on earth would you do that?

- The timeline is just horrible. So many missed opportunities to get help.

- I wonder if he was angry with his climb being affected/interrupted and that influenced his decisions. A kind of stubborn anger.

- I can't imagine leaving someone alone in the dark in those conditions in that state. He sounds ultra experienced so surely he would've recognised the gravity of the situation and the potential risks that they were facing?

- Not using the emergency blankets or pouch is shocking and I can't see ANY reasonable explanation for that at all.

- Why on earth wait three whole hours in this situation without calling anyone? (12:35am to 3:30am).

- If they'd sought help at 10:50pm when the helicopter was looking for them it may well have had a different outcome. I can't imagine just sitting there in that weather, not moving, and not realising how dire things were.

- Did he ever phone her to see how she was while he was descending?

- If someone couldn't move/carry on for even half an hour I'd be seriously concerned in those conditions.

- The people in the article who left their friend 'to die' on Everest thought that he was dead and even poked him in the eye to check responses. That's a completely different situation to this.

- It just doesn't seem likely that he didn't recognise the seriousness of the situation, especially given his experience. It's the lack of trying to seek help for that length of time that really gets to me. Given that it took them about nine hours to travel about 150m they must've been struggling severely for a long time. Why, just why, did he not phone when he left her? I can't imagine being in this emergency situation and not answering/ignoring calls from helpers. Why do nothing?

- The whole thing is just shocking and sad. A tragedy that could've been avoided. Awful. RIP.

Do you think it is just negligence or was there malicious intent?

 

[Mauig’ma]

Do you think it is just negligence or was there malicious intent?

I think both

 

[Charlot123]

The more I read about this the more I'm shocked at his negligence. Re the phone calls, I don't understand why on earth someone wouldn't phone back after half an hour, an hour, if no rescue had showed up in such a dire situation. Or even phoning before he left her to get an update. The first thing I'd do in this situation having contact with rescue is to put my phone on the loudest setting possible (outdoor setting) in order not to miss calls, not put it on silent which seems nuts.

- Also when leaving someone, I would put them in the available pouch they had, wrap them in the blanket, take off their backpack and snow skies and try to shelter them as much as possible from the wind.

- The lack of phone calls is truly crazy. This was obviously a severe emergency situation - the extreme weather, at night, and the fact she could not walk/move any further, being trapped in the place that they were for that length of time. It's inconceivable to think that during this he didn't phone for a few hours when he must've known just how bad the situation was. I would've phoned before I left her, stressed just how bad the situation was, and checked for updates. Not put my phone on silent which just is insane given the situation. Why on earth would you do that?

- The timeline is just horrible. So many missed opportunities to get help.

- I wonder if he was angry with his climb being affected/interrupted and that influenced his decisions. A kind of stubborn anger.

- I can't imagine leaving someone alone in the dark in those conditions in that state. He sounds ultra experienced so surely he would've recognised the gravity of the situation and the potential risks that they were facing?

- Not using the emergency blankets or pouch is shocking and I can't see ANY reasonable explanation for that at all.

- Why on earth wait three whole hours in this situation without calling anyone? (12:35am to 3:30am).

- If they'd sought help at 10:50pm when the helicopter was looking for them it may well have had a different outcome. I can't imagine just sitting there in that weather, not moving, and not realising how dire things were.

- Did he ever phone her to see how she was while he was descending?

- If someone couldn't move/carry on for even half an hour I'd be seriously concerned in those conditions.

- The people in the article who left their friend 'to die' on Everest thought that he was dead and even poked him in the eye to check responses. That's a completely different situation to this.

- It just doesn't seem likely that he didn't recognise the seriousness of the situation, especially given his experience. It's the lack of trying to seek help for that length of time that really gets to me. Given that it took them about nine hours to travel about 150m they must've been struggling severely for a long time. Why, just why, did he not phone when he left her? I can't imagine being in this emergency situation and not answering/ignoring calls from helpers. Why do nothing?

- The whole thing is just shocking and sad. A tragedy that could've been avoided. Awful. RIP.

Everest and other mountains have their issues, too. They are harder to interpret. One famed alpinists criticized Thomas, but when I decided to read about his own life, I opened a Pandora’s box. But at least, we are dealing with much smarter people and certain leadership qualities.

 

[Charlot123]

That thing is visible there only once, at 4:00 PM, on that day, it doesnt show up any other day or any other time of that day.

I cant see a person anywhere.

RSBM

So if you look at this “odd chemtrail” and trace it to the “base” which is probably a rock on the mountain and then trace down the slope, you’ll see a head of a lying person - the shape and size at least. I see it. It is on the mountain slope, 1-2 stones down from the chemtrail base. I blew it up. Chemtrail - trace down - base that is a stone lying on the mountain - next stone to the left - the third one is a head and I think I see the upper part of a tall body.

 

[Charlot123]

It would be very strange if Kerstin hasnt used her phone at all IF she had it on her.
One of the sources claimed that heli at 7:10 saw faint or slight (hovewer it was phrased) signs of life, which may or may not be accurate.

Oh, and arent we conveniently for Thomas all forgetting that it was mentioned in at least two (I have memory but I dont have receipts) that Thomas works in healthcare?
Nursing home was mentioned? Or something like that.
Also first aid courses are mandatory to get even a drivers licence in Austria (I just recalled that they generally are in Europe and checked).

Lookin great. Just awesome. I dont know how this guy could possibly give me more rage strokes, but Im sure he will if/as more will come out.

Hes no random dude who just happened to climb slight more than Kerstin who seem to do just few climbs.
And hes not only experienced climber but hes highely experienced climber.
And not only that, hes highely experienced with this specific mountain.
He changed details in his story.
He lied.
And hes no random dude who worked as a clerk, waiter, programmer or cook so it might happened to be that he never witnessed a person in medical emergency and could understandably freak out or make an unfortunate decisions.
People who work in healthcare, childcare, nursing care are either changing the way of their career to something less demanding or, almost all able to endure immense pressure and are not losing their sanity over extreme circumstances cause they're experiencing it every day.

Any of these decisions he've made could be explained in so many ways. Even a combo of a few could be explained.
But all that combined, the totality of this quit suggesting me ill will. Now it screams murder.

Anyone planning to be a professional guide takes a lot of medical courses.

If he works in the medical field, then one potential defense, “I panicked”, won’t work. He had seen comatose (or worse) people!

Also, a huge difference between K who was not moving and frostbitten and hypothermic and him being fine makes one wonder. It just can’t be so if both were not moving.

Is it possible that he left her earlier and just left two headlights on? And later, came back? If you look at webcam, at 10-10:30 the helicopter had to light up the whole mountain to look for them. Were they even seen where the headlights were? So one headlight doesn’t move and later, fades out. And the other, moves around in a small radius? Is this what we see?

 

[RedHaus]

- The whole thing is just shocking and sad. A tragedy that could've been avoided. Awful. RIP.

RSBM
Well done!
Sounds like you just wrote the opening statement by prosecution for his upcoming February trial. I just wish they were able to charge TP with first degree murder, as I believe this was intentional.

IMO.

 

[Queen of the Winter Night]

Fantastic finds with the trailcams!

The more we discover, the more I am confused on how they used their time up on the mountain. I am extremely curious to hear TP's version of events on the hours and hours they spent doing almost nothing.

 

[RedHaus]

RSBM

So if you look at this “odd chemtrail” and trace it to the “base” which is probably a rock on the mountain and then trace down the slope, you’ll see a head of a lying person - the shape and size at least. I see it. It is on the mountain slope, 1-2 stones down from the chemtrail base. I blew it up. Chemtrail - trace down - base that is a stone lying on the mountain - next stone to the left - the third one is a head and I think I see the upper part of a tall body.

I don't see what you see.

But I'll share I spent months searching HD images that Yellowstone SAR took from a helicopter when searching for Austin King after he vanished from the Eagle Peak summit September, 2024.

I, like OPs here on WS, during the months after AK summitted in horrific conditions, thought we saw heads, sleeping bags, climbing poles, bear bags hanging from trees, and bodies, etc.

Several of us even submitted our suspicions to SAR's email address. But one by one our perceptions were dismissed by each other and expert mountaineers sleuthing with us.

The reason was scale. For instance, what I thought might be a head turned out to be 10 foot wide boulder. The other is light. Colors and light reflections can distort images.

You need to have something nearby you can relate size to. Especially with the distance we're dealing with between Glossglockner and these CCTVs.

So unfortunately I suspect what you may be seeing as a head, is a big 'ol rock.

I think @beubeubeu is correct. That plume may be an oddly positioned contrail.

IMO.
ET: fix typos

 

[LadyL]

Widok z Lucknerhaus:

18:00 - nothing

View attachment 631052

18:10 - light visible

View attachment 631053

18:20

View attachment 631054

18:30 - clouds over the top.
18:40 - clouds

19:00 - ???

View attachment 631055

So there were other climbers there at such time and with such weather?
Two people going down?

19:30 - theyre descending

View attachment 631057

At 20:00 theyre not visible from Lucknerhouse cam:

View attachment 631058

BUT THEY ARE ON ADLER'S HUT CAM:

View attachment 631059

Thats not random light, these are people going down. Similar lights are visible down the mountain not long after sundown on other days.
Whos that? Were there questioned by cops?
Does that mean that there was other pair of people also trying to climb Grossglockner via Studlgrat who also decided to try such an overwhelming climb, also went up too late but at some point decided to descend.

Ehm... how confident we are that it was just Thomas and Kerstin and not more people, some of which at some point decided to try go down... or started going down after something happened?

That's 9:00 PM / 21:00, zoomed:

View attachment 631063

oh wow I wanna hear from these other mountaineers!

 

[Charlot123]

I don't see what you see.

But I'll share I spent months searching HD images that Yellowstone SAR took from a helicopter when searching for Austin King after he vanished from the Eagle Peak summit September, 2024.

I, like OPs here on WS, during the months after AK summitted in horrific conditions, thought we saw heads, sleeping bags, climbing poles, bear bags hanging from trees, and bodies, etc.

Several of us even submitted our suspicions to SAR's email address. But one by one our perceptions were dismissed by each other and expert mountaineers sleuthing with us.

The reason was scale. For instance, what I thought might be a head turned out to be 10 foot wide boulder. The other is light. Colors and light reflections can distort images.

You need to have something nearby you can relate size to. Especially with the distance we're dealing with between Glossglockner and these CCTVs.

So unfortunately I suspect what you may be seeing as a head, is a big 'ol rock.

I think @beubeubeu is correct. That plume may be an oddly positioned contrail.

IMO.
ET: fix typos

Contrail, you are right, sorry for my mistake!

I think that the initial photo is "sharpened"; i enhance photos as well. When it happens, it often produces contours of lighter color outlining objects. Hence i see "the head and the shoulders" that really are two smaller boulders.

Agree about scales.

 

[beubeubeu]

I can’t guess what he planned to do, but one of the explanations for their poor progress could be trying to make a movie? Everyone seems to make a movie about own ascent, perhaps they were trying to do the same as they went up and hence, were distracted and slow?

Can it really?
Sure, making videos, even taking pictures (if you want to have them as good as possible) is time consuming, but how much of a delay may be explained this way? One hour? Two hours? It would ten times better movie if he turned back and either explained why it was necessary or had that + another attempt, with earlier start and better weather.
What use anyone can really have of a video that shows dangerous, reckless, unnecessary life threatening climbing pushed forward? Other climbers and climbing enthusiasts wouldnt be thrilled seeing that. If anything, they would get angry that he gives them a bad rep.

Even stuff as "crazy" as urban climbing has to have a skill and reasoning withing the crazyness of this activity itself to really catch up with people longtime. Otherwise people are jest getting scared and angry, they dont stick around.

ETA: RSBM
Excellent question! While not mentioned anywhere in public documents (or even SM for that matter), what if the climb started as a foursome or six pack? And the others bailed at the Breakfast Place.

I dont think that they bailed at the Breakfast spot. It wouldnt took them that long to descend from there I think. Unless they werent there as "early" as 1:30 PM, but how many totally crazy climbers we can expect to be there on that day specifically, choosing the longest hardest route in January?
It (IMO of course, all IMO) would have to be people who went up earlier, got stuck and descended from somewhere higher - and maybe not that much higher, but higher nonetheless, or members of same group.

RSBM

So if you look at this “odd chemtrail” and trace it to the “base” which is probably a rock on the mountain and then trace down the slope, you’ll see a head of a lying person - the shape and size at least. I see it. It is on the mountain slope, 1-2 stones down from the chemtrail base. I blew it up. Chemtrail - trace down - base that is a stone lying on the mountain - next stone to the left - the third one is a head and I think I see the upper part of a tall body.

That "head" is a size of a human. Possibly bigger. Its not high res enough to really spot a person, especially that route is mostly hidden behind these stones, on the northern slope.

Also, a huge difference between K who was not moving and frostbitten and hypothermic and him being fine makes one wonder. It just can’t be so if both were not moving.

Shoes are enough to make such difference. Snowboarding shoes arent made to keep feet warm for 12+hours, and experiencing pain (highely expected from climbing in them) would make Kerstin more prone to cold and exhaustion.

Is it possible that he left her earlier and just left two headlights on? And later, came back? If you look at webcam, at 10-10:30 the helicopter had to light up the whole mountain to look for them. Were they even seen where the headlights were? So one headlight doesn’t move and later, fades out. And the other, moves around in a small radius? Is this what we see?

I dont think so. That kind of scheme would be too risky. And would require him being not only aware of the surveillance but analyzing and understanding it so well to be able to use that while messing up with lights during the climb...
Not totally, absolutely impossible but a rabbithole without solid reason to consider that it may be the case.
Allegedly they were seen. And they had to be somewhere there cause Kerstin was 100% found 50m below the summit.
Seeing/not seeing the headlights or one of them doesnt mean it wasnt there, too many stones everywhere, some expert level analysis with much better data would be required to really tell.
Im not even trying to do that.

BUT
Thomas's story is that he didnt tried to alert the second heli, which clearly went there FOR them cause the climb was going well.
Surveillance's story disagrees. We can see how they were slowly progressing up... between 18:10 and... basically 21:00.

Between 21:00 and 22:00 it doesnt seem like theyve progressed much.

And on the second cam we can see - thats same moment, both pics from 22:00 but different cams.
22:30 - next to no progress. But not only compared to 22:00 - also compared to 21:00

Thomas claims that he hasnt tried to alert the heli cause they kept climbing.
And maybe they did, maybe that part was super challenging - how THAT makes in unworthy to call for help thats just below them its not that relevant in this context.
He claims that Kerstin started feeling unwell as heli left.
So 23:30? And he doesnt call or try to call for an hour waiting for what?
Impared judgement? Okay, maybe. But then he calls. Not as weather cleared, as weather got worse.
Maybe that was the point when he got scared. Okay, lets consider that for a sec.
He calls and claims that as he learns that they cant send a heli again cause weather is too bad.
I can understand turning phone on silent while climbing, cause in such circumstances the last thing you would want WHILE CLIMBING would be to get distracted by sudden ringtone and to have it use your battery, sure.

BUT.
He claims that they decided to keep moving to not get colder. After the call. But that call was at 00:35
BUT they were barely moving for over 3 hours at this point.
And at another point in time he claims that he, pardon me again, "Kerstin urged him to go" right after that call... to climb up, descend and CALL. While at no point he was trying to call again or waiting for calls, phone on silent right away or all the time.

So basically, with everything that can be even slightly verifiable, his claims are not supported by surveillance.

 

[beubeubeu]

And lets not forget that in case Kerstin would be able to keep climbing and he wasnt actively trying to kill her while climbing up... his plan was still, for at least - how many hours? 9? 10? Even more?
It could NOT be obvious at 2:30 PM that they WONT make it to the summit before the sundown. So he had to keep in mind that they will have to descend in the dark. And it was snowing at times. So he couldnt know if there even will be some footsteps to follow through that crazy path between Gross and Klein.

This:

This is how it looks like, in JUNE.

And to get to that, you have to descend through this, cause this is how normal route to Grossglockner looks like - in JUNE.

Further way go down looks like:

All these pics are ss from this video.

No split second decision, no last line of despair to save their lives at point of no return and no frozen brain cause it was not what he decided to go for after midnight.
He knew how it looks like, he knew how it may look like, he knew that she didnt. He decided theyre gonna go for it at night, in windy January many hours before midnight and before the heli.

Who would push for that while facing just some possible money loss with having to pay for the heli?
Nobody? Few loons? Sure as hell more people would go for it if going through that may mean that theyre gonna get away with more than money.
But at that point the risk of not paying for the rescue would kinda go away right? Cause according to his own statements he went to get help for Kerstin.
Pretty understandable why he wasnt picking up calls or calling while going through that. But why he havent tried to call as soon as he got down the stony, dangerous parts? Why not on the way? Why only as he got to the hut?

 

[Little Jack]

I dont understand the logic of "going on ahead to get help" if he had already contacted rescuers and they said they couldnt send the helicopter again.

Soooo... hes going ahead for what reason? To call them again and see if they can send helicopter yet? He already had cell service there so what is he even going ahead for?

You obviously need to hunker down in this situation and try to keep each other warm and wait for rescue. Leaving her to get help which had already been contacted makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[3llecia]

I dont understand the logic of "going on ahead to get help" if he had already contacted rescuers and they said they couldnt send the helicopter again.

Soooo... hes going ahead for what reason? To call them again and see if they can send helicopter yet? He already had cell service there so what is he even going ahead for?

You obviously need to hunker down in this situation and try to keep each other warm and wait for rescue. Leaving her to get help which had already been contacted makes no sense whatsoever.

The only thing I would say is that certain people react without reason when confronted with danger or life and death. Especially when they think they’re in control of a situation that suddenly changes. Some people can’t resist the urge to act, even if they should.

If he was acting in good faith, I can imagine the choice comes down to whether he thinks himself useful by staying or going:

The idea of “doing nothing” by staying, and potentially dying too, or else watching her die slowly without trying something else.

Or

The idea of “doing something” by going, and saving his own life while somehow trying undo whatever led to her life being at risk.

Based on what I’m reading, the choices made leading up to this point sound overconfident at best, malicious at worst. Regardless of intent, I think one person prioritised themself consistently throughout the ordeal. But were they dumb egotistic choices or immoral egotistic choices?

Thanks for those here sharing their climbing insights too, helps naive people like me to understand what’s involved.