Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[LadyL]

Can it really?
Sure, making videos, even taking pictures (if you want to have them as good as possible) is time consuming, but how much of a delay may be explained this way? One hour? Two hours? It would ten times better movie if he turned back and either explained why it was necessary or had that + another attempt, with earlier start and better weather.
What use anyone can really have of a video that shows dangerous, reckless, unnecessary life threatening climbing pushed forward? Other climbers and climbing enthusiasts wouldnt be thrilled seeing that. If anything, they would get angry that he gives them a bad rep.

Even stuff as "crazy" as urban climbing has to have a skill and reasoning withing the crazyness of this activity itself to really catch up with people longtime. Otherwise people are jest getting scared and angry, they dont stick around.

I dont think that they bailed at the Breakfast spot. It wouldnt took them that long to descend from there I think. Unless they werent there as "early" as 1:30 PM, but how many totally crazy climbers we can expect to be there on that day specifically, choosing the longest hardest route in January?
It (IMO of course, all IMO) would have to be people who went up earlier, got stuck and descended from somewhere higher - and maybe not that much higher, but higher nonetheless, or members of same group.

That "head" is a size of a human. Possibly bigger. Its not high res enough to really spot a person, especially that route is mostly hidden behind these stones, on the northern slope.

Shoes are enough to make such difference. Snowboarding shoes arent made to keep feet warm for 12+hours, and experiencing pain (highely expected from climbing in them) would make Kerstin more prone to cold and exhaustion.

I dont think so. That kind of scheme would be too risky. And would require him being not only aware of the surveillance but analyzing and understanding it so well to be able to use that while messing up with lights during the climb...
Not totally, absolutely impossible but a rabbithole without solid reason to consider that it may be the case.
Allegedly they were seen. And they had to be somewhere there cause Kerstin was 100% found 50m below the summit.
Seeing/not seeing the headlights or one of them doesnt mean it wasnt there, too many stones everywhere, some expert level analysis with much better data would be required to really tell.
Im not even trying to do that.

BUT
Thomas's story is that he didnt tried to alert the second heli, which clearly went there FOR them cause the climb was going well.
Surveillance's story disagrees. We can see how they were slowly progressing up... between 18:10 and... basically 21:00.

View attachment 631239

Between 21:00 and 22:00 it doesnt seem like theyve progressed much.

View attachment 631244

And on the second cam we can see - thats same moment, both pics from 22:00 but different cams.
22:30 - next to no progress. But not only compared to 22:00 - also compared to 21:00

View attachment 631245

Thomas claims that he hasnt tried to alert the heli cause they kept climbing.
And maybe they did, maybe that part was super challenging - how THAT makes in unworthy to call for help thats just below them its not that relevant in this context.
He claims that Kerstin started feeling unwell as heli left.
So 23:30? And he doesnt call or try to call for an hour waiting for what?
Impared judgement? Okay, maybe. But then he calls. Not as weather cleared, as weather got worse.
Maybe that was the point when he got scared. Okay, lets consider that for a sec.
He calls and claims that as he learns that they cant send a heli again cause weather is too bad.
I can understand turning phone on silent while climbing, cause in such circumstances the last thing you would want WHILE CLIMBING would be to get distracted by sudden ringtone and to have it use your battery, sure.

BUT.
He claims that they decided to keep moving to not get colder. After the call. But that call was at 00:35
BUT they were barely moving for over 3 hours at this point.
And at another point in time he claims that he, pardon me again, "Kerstin urged him to go" right after that call... to climb up, descend and CALL. While at no point he was trying to call again or waiting for calls, phone on silent right away or all the time.

So basically, with everything that can be even slightly verifiable, his claims are not supported by surveillance.

I don't see any light at 2030 hours.

thank you for these excellent posts!

 

[sunspun]

Possibly I'm not thinking about this correctly, but wouldn't it have been better for him if she HAD already died before he left her? I mean, if that's what he told authorities afterward?

I think it makes him look better if he said he stayed with her, because she was having so much trouble that she could no longer move, until she eventually died. Then he left her, of course. With the plan to alert authorities of her whereabouts once he was safely down.

 

[RedHaus]

Possibly I'm not thinking about this correctly, but wouldn't it have been better for him if she HAD already died before he left her? I mean, if that's what he told authorities afterward?

I think it makes him look better if he said he stayed with her, because she was having so much trouble that she could no longer move, until she eventually died. Then he left her, of course. With the plan to alert authorities of her whereabouts once he was safely down.

In a way, yes.

If KG had died by 2:00am and TP left to save himself, and he told authorities that, he would not have to explain why he didn't call (or recall) for help for KG between 2:00am and 3:30am.

But IMO, he'd still need to explain everything else, including why the Bivvy and Thermal Blankets weren't used to try and keep KG from dying of hypothermia. And why no frantic calls for help.

That to me is the most damning inaction.

 

[LadyL]

Possibly I'm not thinking about this correctly, but wouldn't it have been better for him if she HAD already died before he left her? I mean, if that's what he told authorities afterward?

I think it makes him look better if he said he stayed with her, because she was having so much trouble that she could no longer move, until she eventually died. Then he left her, of course. With the plan to alert authorities of her whereabouts once he was safely down.

but didn't he ask for rescue? not retrieval? I'm not sure that's just what I read we need to know exactly what he said to them

 

[LadyL]

In a way, yes.

If KG had died by 2:00am and TP left to save himself, and he told authorities that, he would not have to explain why he didn't call (or recall) for help for KG between 2:00am and 3:30am.

But IMO, he'd still need to explain everything else, including why the Bivvy and Thermal Blankets weren't used to try and keep KG from dying of hypothermia. And why no frantic calls for help.

That to me is the most damning inaction.

and not waving at the helicopters or answering his phone earlier
it's all damning IMO

 

[beubeubeu]

Also, Kerstin had been doing rock climbing, with ropes and gear, since at least 2020.

No, she wasnt.
Unless youre referring to something else than Lamsenspitze through Brudertunnel in September 2020 where she wears a helmet.
Thats "B" on a scale of Alps difficulty (C if the trail is wet and not in good, summer conditions). So thats "moderate".
Many people climb that without anything, since its mostly challenging hike + 450m of climbing along metal wires and through metal steps.
On these climbing/hiking websites its recommended to wear a helmet and hip belt to pin yourself to the metal wires along the way so in case of slipping you wont fall. Thats far from climbing with ropes and is just another example of her being responsible and well prepared.

Most of it in dry weather conditions, but at least one high snowy peak before starting climbing with TP.

Snowy peak where? I see Watzmann and Grosses Wiesbachhor, both hard hiking trails. No "rock climbing" but hiking with small parts of these routes being these metal steps in stone, holding onto a thick metal wire. Both climbed in the most reasonable time of the year, dressed appropriately.

I don't see any light at 2030 hours.

Cause through one cam there is no light at 20:30

But there is a light, even bit more than expected lights on Adler's cam:

 

[beubeubeu]

Possibly I'm not thinking about this correctly, but wouldn't it have been better for him if she HAD already died before he left her? I mean, if that's what he told authorities afterward?

I think it makes him look better if he said he stayed with her, because she was having so much trouble that she could no longer move, until she eventually died. Then he left her, of course. With the plan to alert authorities of her whereabouts once he was safely down.

No. That would very strongly indicate that he ignored very bad situation for quite a bit.
23:00 all good, we werere climbing, no rescue needed, and about 2 hours later shes dead. Nope.
That would totally fly if the risk was mostly unforeseen and if that whole climb was reasonable. Or if there was no other way for them but to keep climbing in the darkness cause no phone reception and some total wilderness kind of circumstances + sudden weather change or something like that.

Apart from the fact that he violated basic human empathy, first aid rules, mountain safety and reason, hes looking as good as possible.
He didnt alerted the heli to waste rescue resources as they werent needed!
He called right after she felt bad and couldnt climb anymore!
He figured that since no heli will show up hes gonna go and bring/push for rescue for her by himself, like a hero.

 

[beubeubeu]

and not waving at the helicopters or answering his phone earlier
it's all damning IMO

What is even more damning, as I learned by digging through these websites that provide descriptions and all possible info required for hiking, climbing and wintersport expeditions - there is no shortage of challenging options that people have while starting from Kals. And I mean apart from well mantained, official routes where you can take your small kids on, or bit more experienced teens.

There are mountains who are RIGHT THERE and as-or-MORE accessible than Grossglockner that require much less dangerous, demanding and exhausting climb.
* - we're still talking January: so not like totally safe, not just challenging and "moderate" - still pretty hard, still requiring a lot of experience, strength and endurance and rather dangerous.
And these mountains are offering much better, longer and safer ski routes down than Grossglockner does. These are not like regular skiing routes but people ski there and its not crazy to do that.

So, apart from everything - its just ultimately bizarre.
Even the fact that they tried is bizarre.
Apart from freehand climb on Hoher Goell that Thomas allegedly surprised her with Kerstin seemed to be always dressed appropriately to the trip. This time she wasnt.

And he was very familiar with the area. Not only with Gross but with other summits as well. So it could not be brushed off as some of the dangerous escapades are, where people set themselves hard on one specific goal, made some plan, fell off with time by few hours and in their minds they had only an option to turn away or try so theyve made their decision: to go or to turn back - cause they didnt knew that there is this gorgeous, easy to follow trail over here that takes just few hours and thats also an option.
He had more options. Not only:
a) go for it,
b) turn back,
and
c) go for it but through normal route
but also:
d) e) f) g) h) and so on - to go, do some climbing and some snowboarding.
If the goal was to do some climbing and some snowboarding they could just switch their destination to something more reasonable timewise and safetywise.

So why not...
Oh wait. Right. Cause if with whatever loony reason he set himself hard on climbing Gross through Studlgrat this time of year and he didnt care that much about Kerstin having fun then yup, why go elsewhere where it'd be less climbing time, more snowfun time if he wouldnt be the one having the latter. Yup.

 

[beubeubeu]

There was 100% helicopter flying right there at 20:30.

Look how it looked like at 23:30 when we can be 100% sure the heli was there:

vs. what we can see 20:30:

That heli is not going there for them but its passing the mountain on its Nothern side. So some attempts at alerting them by "blinking" with headlamps could be made.
They not only werent made, but according to Thomas, "werent needed".