Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[Queen of the Winter Night]

Nothing you can dig up about this guy is gonna make you think better of him. Let's put it this way.

Oh I wonder what his previous ex-gfs would say about him more!

 

[beubeubeu]

I wasn't clear that my purpose of posting the guide website's description of the Studlgrat was to point out how they were "glossing over" a bit. I could see how Kerstin looked at that and wanted to do it, or TP showed her something like that to say how she could do it with what they've done that year. The guide site may have bee trying to attract customers, and there may be more guide sites like that, which could lead someone to think it was ok. But if they had actually hired such a guide, they would have assessed them and their gear, and told them to go try another mountain, but not this mountain, or route, in January.

I wouldnt hire a guide to guide me up the mountain ive climbed several times.

But I wouldnt feel good with perspective of my partner skiing down unknown route while i walk down. Its not regular skiing route, not just a Hill. What if they hit on some rock or fell into a crevice? I dont know in advance if other people will be around. If or how many snowboarding/ski tracks will be there. These are mountains, it can get snowy at random moment. Night comes and what then? How im going to find them?

How this plan could even sound good?

 

[beubeubeu]

Digging through instagram Ive foud post from a guy who climbed Studlgrat in January of different year. Three people. No specific hour provided but the time of their start is described as "middle of the night".
One of these three people started feeling bad due to altitude and turned back down half way up. There is a pic, its above the breakfast spot. Seems to be experienced climber. Could be a difference for Kerstin, cant tell if there were some parts of the route that felt unsafe to try to get through alone.
So its not that they couldnt turn back. Together they could do that.

 

[RedHaus]

Here is yet another video, no snow but probably much better feeling of weather condition on that day - just without bunch of snow and frost.

...and without frigid temps and ~45mph wind.

And they keep saying thats the exact spot, 50m below the summit 43:57 on the video below.

So you think this is about where KG was found deceased - left behind by TP with no bivvy, thermal blankets or rock barrier to protect her from wind?

Is this the zone called Snow Ramps - more rolling terrain than jagged rock of lower sections?

~43:00:

 

[beubeubeu]

Apparently its a thing to "open seasons" on the route by climbing it first every year. It doesnt seem to be that big of a deal and I havent noticed any competitive comment about it.
Anything can grow up to huge deal and the matter of honor if there is a tension build up over it, or a bet made. I cant see it as it could matter here but neither does anything else.
Despite of what I've said and think about Thomas Im still trying to come up with SOME motive that could somewhat explain making ALL these "bad decisions" in all stages of this trip.
And I still dont have anything.
Cause what? Some sort of psychosis that he got into not long before, somehow kept it all together so Kerstin wasnt able to notice or get concerned? But then what? He got magically healed and nobody noticed still? Not possible, that whole ordeal and outcome would cause so much additional stress that psychosis would have to turn much more intense and it wouldnt be a thing to miss.
The other lousy theory could be that it was his lifestyle and kept doing it always. But it doesnt make sense either. Like... excuse me, but shouldnt that guy be dead? He should be dead. How could he possibly survive so many high altitude climbs if he kept doing it so wrong each thing would turn up to be russian roulette?

Btw. I also found some pics from people climbing Grossglockner via normal route in winter.
I guess much depends on the temperature and the type of snow and how much of it appeared in what time BUT that terrain there is so steep theyre crawling up in snow. Not walking, not climbing, as there is nothing to climb on yet - theyre crawling up in the deep snow. It does not look as bad as Studlgrat, but pretty freaking far from looking easy.

 

[beubeubeu]

So you think this is about where KG was found deceased - left behind by TP with no bivvy, thermal blankets or rock barrier to protect her from wind?

Is this the zone called Snow Ramps - more rolling terrain than jagged rock of lower sections?

View attachment 632088

~43:00:

This is where several people in vids stated thats 50m below the summit. Theyre showing the same exact place. Below that there is nothing really to even try to lie on. Above its bit of that and lots of climbing up almost vertically - she couldnt be there. And the next kinda snowyramp looking thing is like 20ish m below the summit. Its visible in the video where they interview the mountain guide as theyre getting Kerstin's body up. So its just my assumption that they wouldnt say 50m below if it was just 20, maybe 25. Especially that there is some flattyish looking parts of the route right above the 50m. Relying on that Im assuming that it has to be there.

I dont think that you can really assume that person left in such a place will still be alive after 2-3 hours of descend and the ultra fast heli flight. Possible, yes, but not certain.

 

[RedHaus]

I dont think that you can really assume that person left in such a place will still be alive after 2-3 hours of descend and the ultra fast heli flight. Possible, yes, but not certain.

RSBM
Let's not forget, the words of Mountaineering Guide Peter Suntinger, who has climbed Grossglockner at least 200 times. He said in the video on p.14 (post #266) that when TP decided to leave KG at 2:00am: "...from that moment on it was her death sentence."
That's a pretty stunning damnation of TP. I have to believe Mr. Suntinger will be on the witness stand in February.

 

[katydid23]

RSBM
Let's not forget, the words of Mountaineering Guide Peter Suntinger, who has climbed Grossglockner at least 200 times. He said in the video on p.14 (post #266) that when TP decided to leave KG at 2:00am: "...from that moment on it was her death sentence."
That's a pretty stunning damnation of TP. I have to believe Mr. Suntinger will be on the witness stand in February.

I hope so. It seems like a very important statement for the jury to understand.

 

[beubeubeu]

I hope so. It seems like a very important statement for the jury to understand.

Im afraid not. Without very clear presentation of each element of this abominable expedition even something what sounds and feels so horrible is easily brushed off by the terrible weather condition, stress, exhaustion and so on - and maybe even it should be as, if that was the only "mistake", or one of the few, it could very well be just a horrible horrible decision which at the very worst would lead to something like six months, suspended.
In my opinion he should absolutely NOT be to look at as someone who left their companion in terrible circumstances but didnt have such a long list of outrageously neglectful and evil decisions. Its not even like he endangered only Kerstin's and possibly his own life with every single one of these 12 points I listed earlier. He also increased the health and lives of rescuers, no matter if he considered calling them at any point of that trip from the start to finish.
And he should get no support from other climbers. If theyre giving him any, theyre a problem too cause he broke so many rules its outrageous.

 

[Charlot123]

I cant see it as it could matter here but neither does anything else.
Despite of what I've said and think about Thomas Im still trying to come up with SOME motive that could somewhat explain making ALL these "bad decisions" in all stages of this trip.
And I still dont have anything.

RSFB

This is how I feel about the case. So I have to explain things to myself at least.

As the Brown shooting case shows, it is hard for even a very, gifted, IT-linked man to plan a perfect murder, so I am not sure it was that.

When I was young, once had a friend who lasted long enough for us to start calling a certain behavior by his name.

I don’t know how to describe it best, but here is what it is:

- coming from a very good family with a famed name
- being raised cultured, well-read and very polite
- knowing several languages, being interested in “fashionable sports” (at that time, it was tennis and mountain skiing)
- being in a good study program
- learning “fashionable” dances
- being “cute enough”
- very well-dressed

How long does it take one to see, under this veneer of positive traits, underlying bursts of flawed thinking that are not mental illness?

I think it took my parents and me about four months. By the end, we named this trait after him. Even now, I don’t think it was diagnosable. Maybe “masking” a tad, but via surrounding himself with a similar group of friends. From a tennis group, from Spanish group, from an alpine ski club. They were all good-looking and seemingly decent.

But trying to explain the behavior, the string of flawed decisions of Thomas, if we assume it was not intentional, I can offer only one explanation - underlying impulsive lack of reasoning masked by “visually nice packaging” and being very polite.

How can one not see it for a year in a BF? Daily functioning is to a huge degree automatic. You just obey certain rules of living in the community, subjects to talk about, even posting style, and you are set. Especially if you are not into substances, and TP was, I assume, a health nut.

However, it is when you stop obeying the rules (going above the sign at the Breakfast place) you have to expect problems because you are not wired to make correct decisions in new situations!

Thomas’s string of missteps was taken at the time when one’s ability to reason was critical for survival. That day. In the mountains. He dragged a sick person to almost 4 km-height, late, on a cold day, and he had the stupidity to not turn back when everyone did. Ultimately, he left Kerstin to die there without any means to protect herself from cold, and saved himself.

He can not lead a team anywhere, in the mountains or on the ground. He should never be allowed to make decisions for any person. He can’t be allowed to take any responsibility. He can function only when automatic job is required for which he has been trained.

Essentially, we can all make wrong decisions. This is why we have to obey the signs and rules. That sign at the Breakfast place was the red light that he drove through, intentionally. And IRL he doesn’t have the reflex to apply emergency braking. Another person in his car died.

That is how it looks like to me.

 

[beubeubeu]

How many times Ive said that something here doesnt make sense?
I guess the answer to it is: not many enough.
So I will say it again: it doesnt add up at all.
After all these videos from people who climbed Studlgrat I watched, blog posts, instagram posts, fb posts I just cant emphasize it enough how it DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.

That solid part of timeline is backed up by lights. Before that there is a claim that they started at ~6:45 and were at the Breakfast spot at 13:30.

To get there they had to make it:
- from parking in Kals to Lucknerhutte,
- from Lucknerhutte to Studlhutte,
- from Studlhutte to the breakfast spot.

And as I posted here in #196 post with screens of estimated walking time.
Estimated doesnt consider winter weather but it considers moderate speed of an average hiker.
So I guess it should not be that different from more fit people with more challenging weather.

But once again: Kals to Luckner takes about 3 hours, Luckner to Studl is about two. And the most advised, safe, reasonable time for climbers, that ALSO focuses on rather summery than wintery conditions say that it should be LESS than three hours from Studl to the breakfast spot. That's 8 hours!
They made it in 6 hours 45 minutes. Great timing BUT that was totally foreseen from the moment they left the car. That they wont make it to the breakfast spot in less than 6 hours. Which will leave them on a VERY VERY tight schedule with climbing and descending. WITHOUT enough time to consider skiing anywhere cause at that point it would HAVE TO BE after sundown or just in time with it to descend from stony-parts of the trail. Thats no time for snowboarding there unless maybe someone snowboarded there already 15 times before and knows where to go and what to expect.

He had to know that. She could not know that.

 

[beubeubeu]

How can one not see it for a year in a BF? Daily functioning is to a huge degree automatic. You just obey certain rules of living in the community, subjects to talk about, even posting style, and you are set. Especially if you are not into substances, and TP was, I assume, a health nut.

We dont know even if they lived together and for how long - if they do.
And people who are so much into physical activities as much as they did. Thats a pretty tight schedule to balance between work and trips. She just may never get enough time to really get to know him. She could easily be distracted by the excitement and all the effort put into climbing and learning new things.

As the Brown shooting case shows, it is hard for even a very, gifted, IT-linked man to plan a perfect murder, so I am not sure it was that.

Well, if murders are perfect we dont know about them.
As reading showed me, the perfect murder plan for husbands and boyfriends seem to be to do whatever and say something like "she ran away with a sailor". That was in many, many, way too many cases enough to get away with it so why even try to aim for some Moriarty level sophistication if blunt, dumb basic (...) does the job?

I dont see meticulously planned perfect murder attempt here.
More like something that should punish her and put her into place. And the plan was to have her submit, not summit, and beg him to turn back, stop, dont go - but she didnt, so he kept pushing and pushing, not caring about the outcome.
And as the outcome was her to end up unable to move and go any further. Why not call for help after all. Maybe to a degree honestly, maybe not even that (depends of the theorising's willingness to believe that he may be unable to tell if the weather allows heli flights or not at that point - mine is non-existent).
But even if it was, as he called sort of honest attempt to get her help as she submitted.

What would be that kind of guy's reaction - that kind who planned or jumped for an opportunity to push such a torturous escapade to tire and scare her and may be even mad at her for not doing it earlier so now he has to embarass himself with calling the rescue - IF she started asking him why havent he told her how hard it may get? Or even, as she experienced that route herself why havent they turned back, if they never stood a chance to summit before sundown and he had to know it hours ahead?

If he then "figured" something to the accord: you know what? I can go down, you cant. So Im gonna go "get help" and Im not gonna give you or help you with bivvy or thermo blankets. You did so well for herself, keep doing it. Gonna see how youre gonna make it.
Would that not be a premeditated murder? Wouldnt that NOT be calculated? It didnt have to be planned weeks or days in advance. Only thing he "needed" was to see that he has a weapon ready to use and decide to use it. It wasnt a gun or knife but wind and cold.

Surely he was affected by the cold, exhaustion, wind and altitude. So what? Arent murderers often affected by bunch of different factors that are affecting their way of thinking? Unless these factors were something they couldnt possibly predict, control or understand it doest take their responsibility away.

Especially if you are not into substances, and TP was, I assume, a health nut.

And here is another thing I havent thought about.
Its not always health-nuttyness that takes you to achieve incredible physical performance. He did 21 hours long winter hike-climb, high altitude, as he was going down temp dropped below -9,5*C near Adlershutte (so likely was even colder for Kerstin) and he didnt needed medical attention.
She was, as he says, in peak physical form. And her peak physical form took her only as far. He kept on going. This may or may not mean something.
After 18 hours of hiking and climbing, at least 13 of which was climbing and 1,5 hours of sitting? standing? squatting? LYING? on a stony slope next to Kerstin and NOT MOVING he perfectly well climbed up to the summit, descended in great time and reached the hut in average summer-normal-route-climber time.
I suspect toxicology wasnt done as he "didint" required medical attention.
Does that sound like a health-nut or like some possible endurance and focus booster?

Not sure how I feel about it cause as I said havent thought about it before, but... that would affect not only his endurance and ability to keep focus for so long but also reasoning, emotions, judgement, ability to control anger.
I would definitely note it as possibility. Not most likely scenario cause I saw German/Austrian men in the wild and they tend to hike at inhumane speed for hours... but thats not same thing as clinging onto ice cold stones for so long and still climbing like a pro. That feels like, to the very least, on the verge of human body limits, even if it is an Austrian man.

 

[RedHaus]

But trying to explain the behavior, the string of flawed decisions of Thomas, if we assume it was not intentional, I can offer only one explanation - underlying impulsive lack of reasoning masked by “visually nice packaging”

RS&BBM
Fantastic articulation of your perspective about why this tragedy could have occurred. I Googled your phrasing that I bolded and colored, above, and found this WebMD article about impulsivity.

"Impulsivity is the tendency to act without thinking. For example, you might blurt something out, buy something on a whim, or run across the street without looking. Impulsivity isn’t the same thing as rudeness or lack of self-discipline. It’s a behavior pattern that starts in the brain."

"The part of the brain that controls decision-making and reasoning is called the prefrontal cortex. It’s a part of the frontal lobe in your forehead. You can think of it as the small voice in your head that asks, “Is this really a good idea? Why or why not?” If you have low impulse control, that voice might be very quiet or not there at all. This makes it hard to stop yourself from reaching for another slice of cake or making an inappropriate comment."

"But certain things can damage your frontal lobe and affect your ability to make logical decisions, such as: Brain injury, Alcohol and other drugs, Dementia.

In addition, conditions like attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and bipolar disorder can cause impulsive behavior."

Impulsivity is the main feature of some conditions. These conditions, called impulse control disorders, happen when you have frequent urges to behave in negative ways."

I for one can't give TP a pass for KG's death, no matter what brain or mental health issues the man may have. But you have helped me understand a possible pathos.

IMO.
ET: fix typo

Impulsivity: What Is It?

Impulsive behavior: Impulsive behavior is one of the major symptoms of ADHD and bipolar disorder.

www.webmd.com

 

[beubeubeu]

Oh, and btw.

This is where Adlershutte is.

Does it even look like enough snow to snowboard anywhere?

 

[Charlot123]

We dont know even if they lived together and for how long - if they do.
And people who are so much into physical activities as much as they did. Thats a pretty tight schedule to balance between work and trips. She just may never get enough time to really get to know him. She could easily be distracted by the excitement and all the effort put into climbing and learning new things.

Well, if murders are perfect we dont know about them.
As reading showed me, the perfect murder plan for husbands and boyfriends seem to be to do whatever and say something like "she ran away with a sailor". That was in many, many, way too many cases enough to get away with it so why even try to aim for some Moriarty level sophistication if blunt, dumb basic (...) does the job?

I dont see meticulously planned perfect murder attempt here.
More like something that should punish her and put her into place. And the plan was to have her submit, not summit, and beg him to turn back, stop, dont go - but she didnt, so he kept pushing and pushing, not caring about the outcome.
And as the outcome was her to end up unable to move and go any further. Why not call for help after all. Maybe to a degree honestly, maybe not even that (depends of the theorising's willingness to believe that he may be unable to tell if the weather allows heli flights or not at that point - mine is non-existent).
But even if it was, as he called sort of honest attempt to get her help as she submitted.

What would be that kind of guy's reaction - that kind who planned or jumped for an opportunity to push such a torturous escapade to tire and scare her and may be even mad at her for not doing it earlier so now he has to embarass himself with calling the rescue - IF she started asking him why havent he told her how hard it may get? Or even, as she experienced that route herself why havent they turned back, if they never stood a chance to summit before sundown and he had to know it hours ahead?

If he then "figured" something to the accord: you know what? I can go down, you cant. So Im gonna go "get help" and Im not gonna give you or help you with bivvy or thermo blankets. You did so well for herself, keep doing it. Gonna see how youre gonna make it.
Would that not be a premeditated murder? Wouldnt that NOT be calculated? It didnt have to be planned weeks or days in advance. Only thing he "needed" was to see that he has a weapon ready to use and decide to use it. It wasnt a gun or knife but wind and cold.

Surely he was affected by the cold, exhaustion, wind and altitude. So what? Arent murderers often affected by bunch of different factors that are affecting their way of thinking? Unless these factors were something they couldnt possibly predict, control or understand it doest take their responsibility away.

And here is another thing I havent thought about.
Its not always health-nuttyness that takes you to achieve incredible physical performance. He did 21 hours long winter hike-climb, high altitude, as he was going down temp dropped below -9,5*C near Adlershutte (so likely was even colder for Kerstin) and he didnt needed medical attention.
She was, as he says, in peak physical form. And her peak physical form took her only as far. He kept on going. This may or may not mean something.
After 18 hours of hiking and climbing, at least 13 of which was climbing and 1,5 hours of sitting? standing? squatting? LYING? on a stony slope next to Kerstin and NOT MOVING he perfectly well climbed up to the summit, descended in great time and reached the hut in average summer-normal-route-climber time.
I suspect toxicology wasnt done as he "didint" required medical attention.
Does that sound like a health-nut or like some possible endurance and focus booster?

Not sure how I feel about it cause as I said havent thought about it before, but... that would affect not only his endurance and ability to keep focus for so long but also reasoning, emotions, judgement, ability to control anger.
I would definitely note it as possibility. Not most likely scenario cause I saw German/Austrian men in the wild and they tend to hike at inhumane speed for hours... but thats not same thing as clinging onto ice cold stones for so long and still climbing like a pro. That feels like, to the very least, on the verge of human body limits, even if it is an Austrian man.

I agree about performance inducers. Never thought of it but you are right. It can be something illegal or legal. It can be old 'roid rage then. Or, people use stuff that they buy in vitamin shops and never check what's there (I looked through one label; tons of coffee plus some things I'd never agree to take; people who abused them got weirded out, only I don't know if it was "on" or "getting off" effect). What usually happens, when one "performance booster" gets off the shelves for the side effects, it is immediately rebranded and sold again.

This can be very possible. Plus, we don't know what was her "flu-like illness", after all. I think that he planned a nice day, but when the weather got poor, and she got sicker, Thomas was enraged - with Kerstin, since she stopped demonstrating "peak physical form", with the weather, with everything. She could be asking him to stop and turn back, and he'd just be angrily pushing to move up. And she had skateboarding shoes on, she was slowed to start with.

I think they were stuck there because she felt horribly and he refused to help, and when she felt very poorly, he panicked.

How did he keep himself warm, btw?

JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

RS&BBM
Fantastic articulation of your perspective about why this tragedy could have occurred. I Googled your phrasing that I bolded and colored, above, and found this WebMD article about impulsivity.

"Impulsivity is the tendency to act without thinking. For example, you might blurt something out, buy something on a whim, or run across the street without looking. Impulsivity isn’t the same thing as rudeness or lack of self-discipline. It’s a behavior pattern that starts in the brain."

"The part of the brain that controls decision-making and reasoning is called the prefrontal cortex. It’s a part of the frontal lobe in your forehead. You can think of it as the small voice in your head that asks, “Is this really a good idea? Why or why not?” If you have low impulse control, that voice might be very quiet or not there at all. This makes it hard to stop yourself from reaching for another slice of cake or making an inappropriate comment."

"But certain things can damage your frontal lobe and affect your ability to make logical decisions, such as: Brain injury, Alcohol and other drugs, Dementia.

In addition, conditions like attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and bipolar disorder can cause impulsive behavior."

Impulsivity is the main feature of some conditions. These conditions, called impulse control disorders, happen when you have frequent urges to behave in negative ways."

I for one can't give TP a pass for KG's death, no matter what brain or mental health issues the man may have. But you have helped me understand a possible pathos.

IMO.
ET: fix typo

Impulsivity: What Is It?

Impulsive behavior: Impulsive behavior is one of the major symptoms of ADHD and bipolar disorder.

www.webmd.com

(And probably many other conditions, besides the ones that were mentioned here). Have you ever read the book, "All dogs have ADHD?" I respect all dog owners as taking care of the dog is no easier than raising a child with ADHD, IMHO. But dogs, with their happy impulsivity, do listen to their owner' words. They can be stopped. And adults with ADHD usually develop the ability to say, "wait a moment..." "The voice of the prefrontal cortex" kicks in.
Keeping it consistent is hard. People get tired by the end of the day. But very seldom it is a consistent string of wrong decisions. And Thomas was 35 when it happened, so "maturity" should have kicked in, unless something else happened. It is his consistency of making wrong decisions that is so surprising. I actually wonder if what @beubeubeu mentioned, some performance enhancer, could be the contributor? Think of it, 35 and no planning at all!

No, I don't think that anything could be a mitigating factor in this situation because...after all, if you got your partner in a difficult situation, there is always the rescue helicopter. Which was around at 8:30 pm and 10 pm. And, there was his silent phone. And, her left under the elements as she was. That, too.

 

[beubeubeu]

I agree about performance inducers. Never thought of it but you are right. It can be something illegal or legal. It can be old 'roid rage then. Or, people use stuff that they buy in vitamin shops and never check what's there (I looked through one label; tons of coffee plus some things I'd never agree to take; people who abused them got weirded out, only I don't know if it was "on" or "getting off" effect). What usually happens, when one "performance booster" gets off the shelves for the side effects, it is immediately rebranded and sold again.

I dont know about vitamin shops stuff cause I keep assuming that climbing in general and especially in these crazy circumstances just had to require full mental capacity. Unless maybe he hasnt climbed Studlgrat like 5-10 times as I also assume but like 20 times and he knew the route like the back of his hand.
But then the whole thing generates a "problem" to me again.

Cause if he not only knew it well but knew it like a back of his hand - that could totally boost his confidence in their ability to make it. And that boost could hold him for hours. Few hours. Like five hours. But not eight hours as the sundown was coming to get them fast. That should increase not decrease his ability to judge the situation appropriately.

Vitamin shop stuff could explain how he managed to keep on going at the speed and keep the required focus... but what about his decisions then? Caused by flawed way of thinking that he always had? Caused by side effects of prolonged intake that hit him and affected his reasoning then?
Maybe. But do these things really do well in frost? According to him it wasnt only climbing but also 1,5 hours in cold not moving or almost not moving. And then another 1,5 hours of focus, physical effort and cold. And after that he was more or less fine. I doubt that. These performance boosters arent meant to keep people able to go on like machines for hours and hours. It should wear off I think.

This can be very possible. Plus, we don't know what was her "flu-like illness", after all. I think that he planned a nice day, but when the weather got poor, and she got sicker, Thomas was enraged - with Kerstin, since she stopped demonstrating "peak physical form", with the weather, with everything. She could be asking him to stop and turn back, and he'd just be angrily pushing to move up. And she had skateboarding shoes on, she was slowed to start with.

But the weather didnt get poor. Look:

That's data from Adlershutte on January 18th to first hours of 19th.
It wont be exacly what they experienced cause Studlgrat is on the North side of the Gross and Adler's has some nice sun exposition mid-day so I doubt they had any moment of above the 0*C on Studlgrat, but its so close it should be the most accurate that there is.

That temp drop after sundown was not sudden, it was 100% expected and there was none as they still were in the reasonable climbing time window, and even few hours past that.
No sudden change in humidity. Wind got stronger after 3:00 PM. Not much different from earlier days.
Wind direction - no sudden change. That difference on the graph varies between North, North-West, North-East. So that wind was hitting straight at them all the time. Hasnt appeared at one point.
We can see some visibility issues at one point and another in some cam pics. But these also came after sundown. It doesnt seem like there was anything odd or wild about this weather. It was very bad on the slope and below the summit, but that doesnt seem to be anything out of the ordinary. The fact that someone was there that time of year and that time of day was certainly out of the ordinary.

How did he keep himself warm, btw?

Thats one excellent question.
He "should" start losing his body heat in no time as soon as he stopped moving and to the very least get some numbness. Not sure if adrenaline rush can apply after this whole ordeal. And he either climbed up and down VERY FAST or lied about the exact moment of leaving her.

 

[beubeubeu]

Keeping it consistent is hard. People get tired by the end of the day. But very seldom it is a consistent string of wrong decisions. And Thomas was 35 when it happened, so "maturity" should have kicked in, unless something else happened. It is his consistency of making wrong decisions that is so surprising. I actually wonder if what @beubeubeu mentioned, some performance enhancer, could be the contributor? Think of it, 35 and no planning at all!

But he climbed a lot. Bigger mountains too.
Its very hard to swallow a concept of high-altitude climber with years of practice, poor impulse control and tendency to poorly plan things.

 

[RedHaus]

Have you ever read the book, "All dogs have ADHD?"

Hah! No, but I should. I've lived with a partner with ADHD (diagnosed at middle age) for decades. That's not easy either!

So let's combine these new thoughts here. What if TP had been diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Adderoll (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine), and an (ER) extended release form?

Of course a prescribed dose should merely calm the mind of a person with ADHD. But what if TP had learned that taking more than prescribed on big climb days that he had more focus and stamina, like an ER amphetamine might do?

Completely IMO.

 

[Ladyotm]

Oh, and btw.

View attachment 632341

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View attachment 632343

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View attachment 632346

This is where Adlershutte is.

View attachment 632347

View attachment 632348

Does it even look like enough snow to snowboard anywhere?

My thoughts exactly! Was Kerstin planning on hiking the entire mountain or a certain point where she could comfortably ski?

Had he ever hiked this particular mountain? Could he have convinced her to go along with promises of just going high enough for her to ski? Thinking about the foolish dad he took his kids on the mountain hike, almost killing them. "It's a once in a lifetime opportunity", "You will not pass".