Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

  • #341
Had he ever hiked this particular mountain?
Yes, at least once that I saw in 2022 - it was on his FB page before the page was deleted.

But I believe that there are articles that have been posted here, citing that TP used Glossglocker for his climbing training and he had climbed most, if not all of the several routes to the summit. Lots of info up thread.
 
  • #342
My thoughts exactly! Was Kerstin planning on hiking the entire mountain or a certain point where she could comfortably ski?
Reasonably, considering how that area looks like in general, and how snowy (NOT SNOWY ENOUGH I mean) it looked like then the only reason to have ski/splitboard (that splits into skis) on is to put them on while getting through the snow before the climb.
That mountain is not to ski. Like ski-ski.
Where the route goes near Studlgrat there is glacier, where is glacier there are crevices. Very bad idea to try to ski there without a guide or at least someone whos pretty well aware how everything looks like this specific season or it could turn bad.
Where the route goes from Adlershutte, at some parts you can theoretically ski. But safer and visually pleasing part of it (from Adlers to Luckner) didnt have enough snow on that day to ski/snowboard there. And from Klein to Adlers it would be VERY dangerous, dangerous to the level of totally not worth even trying after sundown.

And that mountain is not one to hike on.
Had he ever hiked this particular mountain?
Yes, many times.
Could he have convinced her to go along with promises of just going high enough for her to ski?
He could have her convinced that climbing is much easier and shorter than it is. And its so so not.
And he could have her convinced that after the climb and descend via another route she will get a nice snowboarding route (since that route is much easier and she might have no idea how it actually looks like there).
Thinking about the foolish dad he took his kids on the mountain hike, almost killing them.
For Thomas here I have some "maybe there is something I dont know about this" (mostly having in mind some possible misreporting or crucial missing info) window open.

For the "foolish" dad I have as much of that as I do for Israel Keyes.
His only foolishness was that he underestimated his kids survival ability so he hasnt ended having them dead as he wished to. I M O.
 
  • #343
But I believe that there are articles that have been posted here, citing that TP used Glossglocker for his climbing training and he had climbed most, if not all of the several routes to the summit. Lots of info up thread.
It wasnt only that he used Grossglockner as his training ground.
It was specified that he was using Studlgrat route for training.
 
  • #344
IF they had really wanted to climb and Ski they would have taken the Normal route. There are many videos of people doing this. They ski across a glacier and up to the base of the rocky climbing area. When they climb back down from the summit, they ski back across the glacier. It saves a lot of slogging through snow. BUT, the Studlgrat route does NOT support skiing. Evidently, they planned to go down the Normal route, and she was going to ski/snowboard across the glacier. After carrying that split board all the way up the mountain and down. Absolutely ridiculous IMO..
 
  • #345
I dont know about vitamin shops stuff cause I keep assuming that climbing in general and especially in these crazy circumstances just had to require full mental capacity. Unless maybe he hasnt climbed Studlgrat like 5-10 times as I also assume but like 20 times and he knew the route like the back of his hand.
But then the whole thing generates a "problem" to me again.

Cause if he not only knew it well but knew it like a back of his hand - that could totally boost his confidence in their ability to make it. And that boost could hold him for hours. Few hours. Like five hours. But not eight hours as the sundown was coming to get them fast. That should increase not decrease his ability to judge the situation appropriately.

Vitamin shop stuff could explain how he managed to keep on going at the speed and keep the required focus... but what about his decisions then? Caused by flawed way of thinking that he always had? Caused by side effects of prolonged intake that hit him and affected his reasoning then?
Maybe. But do these things really do well in frost? According to him it wasnt only climbing but also 1,5 hours in cold not moving or almost not moving. And then another 1,5 hours of focus, physical effort and cold. And after that he was more or less fine. I doubt that. These performance boosters arent meant to keep people able to go on like machines for hours and hours. It should wear off I think.


But the weather didnt get poor. Look:

View attachment 632395
View attachment 632396
View attachment 632397
View attachment 632398
View attachment 632399

That's data from Adlershutte on January 18th to first hours of 19th.
It wont be exacly what they experienced cause Studlgrat is on the North side of the Gross and Adler's has some nice sun exposition mid-day so I doubt they had any moment of above the 0*C on Studlgrat, but its so close it should be the most accurate that there is.

That temp drop after sundown was not sudden, it was 100% expected and there was none as they still were in the reasonable climbing time window, and even few hours past that.
No sudden change in humidity. Wind got stronger after 3:00 PM. Not much different from earlier days.
Wind direction - no sudden change. That difference on the graph varies between North, North-West, North-East. So that wind was hitting straight at them all the time. Hasnt appeared at one point.
We can see some visibility issues at one point and another in some cam pics. But these also came after sundown. It doesnt seem like there was anything odd or wild about this weather. It was very bad on the slope and below the summit, but that doesnt seem to be anything out of the ordinary. The fact that someone was there that time of year and that time of day was certainly out of the ordinary.

So do you think that the people who said they turned back and decided to not continue, simply realized that it was "too late and too dark, we should start earlier next time", perhaps? I assumed that the weather suddenly got cold and windy, as it sometimes happens with "unpredictable" mountains, but it was to be expected in January after sunset, it seems? So if TP and KG started out late, they should have not even attempted?

Thats one excellent question.
He "should" start losing his body heat in no time as soon as he stopped moving and to the very least get some numbness. Not sure if adrenaline rush can apply after this whole ordeal. And he either climbed up and down VERY FAST or lied about the exact moment of leaving her.

You know, I wonder when he left her and what these totally unmoving headlights mean. He was very much alive, means, moving...people do try, and turn around in such cases, but the headlights look fixed. I understand that it is not a video, and that perhaps witnesses told what they saw, but on the webcam the headlights seem to never change position.

Also, I didn't quite understand what happened at 10 pm when the police lit the mountain. In one article, it says that Thomas waved them off. In another, that they did not see TP and KG, just were looking for them. However, no distress signal came from the climbers, so the rescuer helicopter left and the police tried to call Thomas but the phone won't answer.

How easy is it to ascend these 50 feet to the top in total darkness?
 
  • #346
Hah! No, but I should. I've lived with a partner with ADHD (diagnosed at middle age) for decades. That's not easy either!

So let's combine these new thoughts here. What if TP had been diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Adderoll (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine), and an (ER) extended release form?

Of course a prescribed dose should merely calm the mind of a person with ADHD. But what if TP had learned that taking more than prescribed on big climb days that he had more focus and stamina, like an ER amphetamine might do?

Completely IMO.

These are all big "ifs". First of all, we don't know if he was diagnosed with it and how frequently Adderall is prescribed in Austria.
 
  • #347
So do you think that the people who said they turned back and decided to not continue, simply realized that it was "too late and too dark, we should start earlier next time", perhaps? I assumed that the weather suddenly got cold and windy, as it sometimes happens with "unpredictable" mountains, but it was to be expected in January after sunset, it seems? So if TP and KG started out late, they should have not even attempted?
Wind direction may be unexpected to a degree. And not high degree cause weather data shows daily winds on 18th somewhat similar to other days. There was really nothing unpredictable about this weather. No wind would be surprising. Or lack of significant temp drop. None of that happened then.
I guess it might be that the weather prognosis said something else but even if so, still. The weather they have wasnt bad or wild for January. Nor was it like super great. Average there.

We dont know if these people said anything.
But unless they started super early, went via normal route and descended through Nordgrad (which would be ultimately super ultra insanely challenging) as they were training for some extreme climbing circumstances on K2 or something equally unexpected - they should to the very least see Thomas & Kerstin at some point, or have similar experiences.
You know, I wonder when he left her and what these totally unmoving headlights mean. He was very much alive, means, moving...people do try, and turn around in such cases, but the headlights look fixed. I understand that it is not a video, and that perhaps witnesses told what they saw, but on the webcam the headlights seem to never change position.
They do change position. But theyre changing it very little. Just moving around like 3 feet one direction and three in the other wont make it look like light changed the position with that distance and resolution.
But thats totally understandable to see that as "no movement". That cannot be consider safe, okay going, planned climbing speed.
Also, I didn't quite understand what happened at 10 pm when the police lit the mountain. In one article, it says that Thomas waved them off. In another, that they did not see TP and KG, just were looking for them. However, no distress signal came from the climbers, so the rescuer helicopter left and the police tried to call Thomas but the phone won't answer.
Well, neither do I. Considering where the lights are on the cams, people wearnig them could be nowhere else but on Studlgrat. There are no tunnels or chimneys they could be at the time to not be visible from the heli. They should 100% BE visible from the heli.
Yet that heli lights up the mountain everywhere. Which implies that they werent that easy to spot.

Or... maybe even that they went off trail.
How easy is it to ascend these 50 feet to the top in total darkness?
Not easy at all. And its 50 metres not 50 feet. Even last 50 feet isnt that easy.
 
  • #348
Excellent recent local coverage with interviews. I downloaded German subtitles and autotranslated it to make it bit easier to digest.
That clears up so much.


What exactly happened on Austria's highest mountain, the Großglockner, on that bitterly cold night last January? A young woman from Salzburg died just meters below the summit, left alone by her boyfriend, an experienced mountaineer.
He says he went to get help.

But now he has to answer for manslaughter by gross negligence in court.
He was allegedly unreachable for rescuers for hours and then descended alone in the middle of the night. His weak, completely exhausted girlfriend froze to death, and much remains a mystery. Fabian Schaffer investigates.

The (?? gechiecht? - story?) is even mysterious because he's not entirely honest. That's unheard of. Leaving a partner behind is a no-go. NO G O.
If I can't get a helicopter and it flies overhead and nothing happens, I don't know anything, that's pretty suspicious. The sum of these bad decisions ultimately led to this fatal accident. At least that's the accusation from the authorities.

At the beginning of the year, a young woman from Salzburg froze to death on the Großglockner. Her friend and companion now faces trial. He could face up to three years in prison. Why does the public prosecutor's office believe there is someone to blame for the 33-year-old's death?

In the early morning hours of January 18th, the two mountaineers set off from the municipality of Karls towards the Großglockner. And according to the public prosecutor's office, this is where the first mistakes occurred. The authorities say they were about two hours too late.

Furthermore, the victim was wearing snowboard boots, completely unsuitable equipment for such a demanding mountain tour. "If we're talking about the planning," the prosecutor stated, "I have to say it was a complete miscalculation. It was a miscalculation in that they simply didn't consider the terrain. The slope is the (??), and that's difficult enough even in summer. Yes, it's grade III terrain. In winter, of course, there's the added snow. It might even be icy. The conditions are bad." Wind speeds of 74 km/h, temperatures of -8°C, resulting in a perceived cold of -20°C.

Shortly after 8 p.m., other climbers noticed the light on the ridge and raised the alarm. According to the public prosecutor's office, further progress was no longer possible at that point. The two climbers nevertheless did not make an emergency call. They also failed to send out any distress signals during a police helicopter overhead.
We were basically just waiting. We knew something was fishy, because that's just not how it works. If I can still get a helicopter, and it flies me, and they're not allowed to, I don't know, that's pretty suspicious for me. We don't know what really happened, they can't tell me, but something's not right there.

That's the case, it's mysterious, that's because he's not completely silent, that's just not possible. If I'm out so late, then I have to be behind. Here in the municipality of Kals, everyone knows the Grossglockner like the back of their hand, and yet nobody here understands what happened on the mountain on the night of January 19th.

After midnight, the 33-year-old has to give up, completely exhausted. She can neither go forward nor back. Her partner calls the mountain police at that time. Immediately afterwards, he puts his phone on silent, finally turns it off completely and no longer accepts any calls, according to the public prosecutor's office.
The sum of these, uh, poor decisions ultimately led to this fatal accident. At least, that's the accusation from the public prosecutor's office.

"Gross negligent homicide" means that, uh, misconduct occurred which, in its totality, was clearly negligent, and this can be considered grounds for accusation simply because many smaller errors are made which, in total, can be classified as gross negligence.

Around 2 a.m., another fatal misconception is said to have occurred. The defendant left his girlfriend alone to descend to the Erzherzog Johannhütte mountain hut and get help. His route can be traced on webcam images. If you imagine yourself in the log, you'll see where your partner left. You really don't know how or why, or if they argued or, more likely, discussed things in the aftermath. The defendant also allegedly failed to protect his partner from the cold and heat loss.
Leaving a partner behind is a no-go. You don't leave anyone behind, and him, I don't know what he was thinking, the poor devil, if I may say so, what he was thinking.
Now I have to leave her there.

He still has the not-so-easy final ascent to the summit to do. He has to take the normal winter route, which is a real challenge. Yes, if you can put it a bit bluntly, it's difficult, d
He has to go via the normal winter route with chains. Yes, if you may put it a bit in a roundabout way, it's difficult, then it's dark, right? He has to go to the Adlasruhe. So, it's quite an obscure story.

That is and that will remain. At 3:30 a.m., the defendant then made the emergency call. A helicopter rescue had to be called off due to strong winds.

The woman could not be recovered until 10:00 a.m., frozen to death alone 50 meters below the summit cross.
The defendant maintains it was an accident.
He then earnestly regrets that it happened this way. The prospect of the defense, however, is still to assume a tragic, fateful accident.

Such a charge is generally very rare, explains the lawyer and mountaineer Robert Walner.
A particularly common one is the so-called guide acting out of courtesy. We, as lawyers, also call it the de facto guide. This is the term used when someone voluntarily and explicitly takes over the leadership and when they are also significantly better qualified than the person being led. I can now remember a long time ago about the division of labor.
The Supreme Court in a landmark ruling regarding the 1984 Bitzbuin accident, established the criteria for when one speaks of such a de facto guide and then, in the Bitzbuin case, for the first time, ruled that the mountaineer is liable.
That was also a relatively extreme case. Back then, an experienced mountaineer was climbing th Bitzbuin in Vorarlberg with an inexperienced partner. The inexperienced climber is seriously injured, the tour guide is convicted. And even now, the court in Innsbruck is supposed to clarify what happened on the mountain. If I am a mountaineer, I have a great responsibility and that responsibility must be decided by the individual for themselves. You cannot be a court to say it happened this way or that way, because on the Grossglockner, under such conditions, it's difficult to make a decision, and you never know when human lives are at stake, how someone thinks and feels and then acts at all. There are simply situations up there that no one can change and cannot influence. That's the problematic thing about the mountain.

The main trial at the Innsbruck Regional Court is scheduled for February 19, 2026. Demand faces up to three years in prison. The presumption of innocence applies.

And here in my studio, I welcome Günther Kanutsch, head of the Salzburg Alpin Mountaineering School and for many years president of the Salzburg Mountain Guides Association.
Good evening, Mr. Kan.
Yes, good evening to you too, Mr. Kanutsch.
An indictment for gross negligent homicide. What were your first thoughts as an experienced mountain guide when you heard about it?
Well, it is, that was my first impression, a very complex case. So, there are a lot of individual decisions co-opting each other, some of which are quite astonishing.
Hmm. Indictments in such cases are rather rare. Um, would you say that in this case the facts are quite clear?
Well, anyone can make a mistake. So, even I, even mountain guides, colleagues, every mountaineer has made a mistake at some point. Small, or hopefully not a big one. But, uh, what's so striking here, uh, is, that a whole chain of apparent misjudgments preceded the tragic ending.
Mhm. Let's go through it. Um, according to the public prosecutor's office, the young woman from Salzburg was very poorly equipped, namely with, um, snowboard boots, with a splitboard. What does that mean when you're at over 3000 m altitude with such equipment in winter at sub-zero temperatures?
Yes, of course, the Stüdgrat in winter is absolutely a serious tour, not comparable to good conditions in summer. Uh, the day wasn't exactly a happy one either chosen because, as we learned, there was a strong storm, which of course made the whole thing considerably more difficult, but the equipment itself was, if I'm putting it cautiously, with the soft boots and the matching climbing boots, I would almost say not suitable crampons, uh, more than suboptimal, because soft boots are not comparable to the crampons with the ones my partner was using, the crampons were completely different, and these crampons for soft boots are therefore primarily suitable for climbing steep, icy slopes, but not for climbing mixed terrain. Experienced mountaineers then do a tour with short tours. In this case, the young woman from Salzburg had a splitboard with her, so a kind of snowboard.
What makes the difference here?
He might want to preface this by saying that the ascent of the Studelgrade is a winter ascent even without this extra luggage of the, uh, the tour and the splitports is already a challenge. But when I have that on my back up top, the whole thing becomes significantly heavier. Um, and that day there was strong wind or rather a storm, over 70 km/h, as we found out afterwards, and the wind, or rather the, but especially the splitboard, which is significantly wider even when disassembled than a (??), naturally offers an excellent surface area for wind or, in this case, a storm. Then it is sometimes really very, very difficult to climb, because it's very easy to lose your balance afterwards.
Yes. And that, of course, takes a tremendous toll on your strength.
Many are wondering, and we heard Peter Habeller's* commentary on this
(NO GO. NO GO was his commentary to it), why did the mountain guide, the experienced alpinist, leave his friend alone in the end?
How do you explain that?
Yes, it's not just inexplicable to me, so it remains probably whether one ever really knows what happened, that probably only he knows. But whether the truth will ever come to light, one can't judge, maybe at the trial, but it's inexplicable to me how one can leave someone behind, because we learn during mountain guide training, to leave a guest alone, and in this case there was a guest-client relationship, admittedly on a private level, but he was the experienced one, he was responsible for her and left her alone, and that is simply unacceptable. I can't leave someone alone on the mountain, especially not in this terrain under these conditions.
But does the law expect that on the mountain, the more experienced person assumes responsibility?
Yes, you're bringing that up now?
So, basically, many people are afraid of this.
Are you also liable on the mountain as a private individual?
Because the mountain is not a lawless space, that's quite clear. But, uh, it's like this: if I'm out today, even as a mountain guide, privately with people, I don't automatically have responsibility for these people. My responsibility only comes into effect once I go with these people who are with me into terrain where they wouldn't be able to manage on their own. Here, uh, there's a duty of care, and I also have to, and automatically then the responsibility for these people falls on me.
Um, now we saw in the report no distress signals to the helicopter, the cell phone on silent. Um, the young exhausted woman wasn't wrapped in a bivvy bag, nor in an avalanche blanket, or in a emergency blanket. If her companion had acted differently, the whole thing would have turned out differently, perhaps not with death?
Well, that's purely hypothetical. We can't answer the question, but what we can say is that the chances would have been significantly greater that she would have been probably already injured, but but at least survived. into a bivvy shelter that they would have had with them and if both of them could have potentially had space in it, ideally they would have had a two-person bivvy shelter with them so the person could cuddle up with them, let's say, and transfer their own heat to the other person. They would be protected from the wind, and the chances would have been significantly greater. And even if I only have a single bicycle shelter in conjunction with the aluminum sheet, which ensures that the heat doesn't radiate so much body heat, in combined with the windproof bivvy shelter, the situation then looks much more favorable for the person.
And why wasn't help called?
There was help. There was the helicopter that flew over the two of them. There were calls on their cell phones.
Why wasn't this help accepted?
We don't know, but it's really more than questionable um, why the help was basically refused and a short time later the partner was left alone, left unattended, and uh the companion tried to get help and left her alone and then she ultimately died. These two uh scales of events simply don't add up, and that is currently puzzling the media worldwide.
Mhm. Thank you very much for visiting the studio and for your analysis.
Thank you.
 
  • #349
So… pretty much nobody understands it.
No rescuers, no mountaing guides, no Grossglockner-area Staff members, not people who live there, in Kals their whole lives.

The delay with their start. It cames from people who judged the situation afterwards. That it was impossible to do that route starting at 6:45.
It DID NOT CAME from Thomas. That they showed up there but fatally decided to go anyway. So Kerstin could and likely had no idea they cant made it in time.

It wasnt that the lights werent moving. It was that anyone with any concept of climbing Gross via Studl KNEW that its not possible to climb it in January at night. Not just risky, deadly.

So he not only turned his phone "back" to silent. He actually also TURNED IT OFF.
And why would he do that as he wasnt climbing then, Kerstin wasnt able to move anymore, he allegedly stayed with her for 1,5 hours there. And he TURNED HIS PHONE OFF.

That windy storm thats mentioned. That didnt came during the day. That didnt came at midnight. That came later. After 3:00 AM. The exact time window when it was totally too wild for a heli to fly was about 4:00-6:30 - then it was possible for heli to go but not to land or hover anywhere long enough to pick someone up or let recuers off it. It stayed like that for hours. It was very very windy as they were recovering Kerstin.
Yet that what we see, that wind, during the day is LESS what Kerstin and only Kerstin had to face there, alone. He got off the mountain before strongest bits of wind went from 48km/h to 74km/h, possibly even freaking worse.

Thomas says it was an accident. All of it. An accident.
Astonishing accident. Suspicious. Baffling. Bizarre. More than questionable. Thats what the ultimately most experienced people say about this whole ordeal.
My favourite is this guy yelling that its NO GO. N O G O to do something like this. And sure as hell (to me) he doesnt mean that nobody should ever leave their partner behind no matter what, even if leaving is only Chance to save themselves and there is nothing really to do to help the other person than to go and maybe hope to get help or save themselves. Im sure he means totality of this situation and especially unused bivvy and blankets.

He had responsibility over her. She would not be able to climb it alone in January. Im glad they have this figured this way.
 
  • #350
And what was she thinking carrying that splitboard?
Taking it, obviously she had to have a plan of using it in mind.
Climbing with it, sure. For some time she may still believe that it gonna get easier soon and they will make it to the snowy part so she at least will be able to walk in the splitboarded skis faster.
But what was she thinking having it still while climbing at night?
She couldnt still believe in any use of that splitboard. She had to feel more than anyone can imagine how it almost takes her away off the mountain. Even 2.000E splitboard isnt worth it.
She couldnt be delusional about it cause cold, exhaustion and altitude.
Well, theoretically she totally could. But practically that could not possibly be a reason to not ditch the splitboard. Cause he was there. With no ill will he should have to do anything possible to convince her to ditch the splitboard. If failed, alerting the first heli of super ultra urgent dangerous situation. Or the second. Yet he didnt.
To me it means he wanted it to have it on her. Cause what else?

Would she even able to remove it from her backpack on her own? While trapped on these icy stones, with wind constantly trying to take her away? If he didnt wanted her to do that?
 
  • #351
Excellent recent local coverage with interviews. I downloaded German subtitles and autotranslated it to make it bit easier to digest.
That clears up so much.


What exactly happened on Austria's highest mountain, the Großglockner, on that bitterly cold night last January? A young woman from Salzburg died just meters below the summit, left alone by her boyfriend, an experienced mountaineer.
He says he went to get help.

But now he has to answer for manslaughter by gross negligence in court.
He was allegedly unreachable for rescuers for hours and then descended alone in the middle of the night. His weak, completely exhausted girlfriend froze to death, and much remains a mystery. Fabian Schaffer investigates.

The (?? gechiecht? - story?) is even mysterious because he's not entirely honest. That's unheard of. Leaving a partner behind is a no-go. NO G O.
If I can't get a helicopter and it flies overhead and nothing happens, I don't know anything, that's pretty suspicious. The sum of these bad decisions ultimately led to this fatal accident. At least that's the accusation from the authorities.

At the beginning of the year, a young woman from Salzburg froze to death on the Großglockner. Her friend and companion now faces trial. He could face up to three years in prison. Why does the public prosecutor's office believe there is someone to blame for the 33-year-old's death?

In the early morning hours of January 18th, the two mountaineers set off from the municipality of Karls towards the Großglockner. And according to the public prosecutor's office, this is where the first mistakes occurred. The authorities say they were about two hours too late.

Furthermore, the victim was wearing snowboard boots, completely unsuitable equipment for such a demanding mountain tour. "If we're talking about the planning," the prosecutor stated, "I have to say it was a complete miscalculation. It was a miscalculation in that they simply didn't consider the terrain. The slope is the (??), and that's difficult enough even in summer. Yes, it's grade III terrain. In winter, of course, there's the added snow. It might even be icy. The conditions are bad." Wind speeds of 74 km/h, temperatures of -8°C, resulting in a perceived cold of -20°C.

Shortly after 8 p.m., other climbers noticed the light on the ridge and raised the alarm. According to the public prosecutor's office, further progress was no longer possible at that point. The two climbers nevertheless did not make an emergency call. They also failed to send out any distress signals during a police helicopter overhead.
We were basically just waiting. We knew something was fishy, because that's just not how it works. If I can still get a helicopter, and it flies me, and they're not allowed to, I don't know, that's pretty suspicious for me. We don't know what really happened, they can't tell me, but something's not right there.

That's the case, it's mysterious, that's because he's not completely silent, that's just not possible. If I'm out so late, then I have to be behind. Here in the municipality of Kals, everyone knows the Grossglockner like the back of their hand, and yet nobody here understands what happened on the mountain on the night of January 19th.

After midnight, the 33-year-old has to give up, completely exhausted. She can neither go forward nor back. Her partner calls the mountain police at that time. Immediately afterwards, he puts his phone on silent, finally turns it off completely and no longer accepts any calls, according to the public prosecutor's office.
The sum of these, uh, poor decisions ultimately led to this fatal accident. At least, that's the accusation from the public prosecutor's office.

"Gross negligent homicide" means that, uh, misconduct occurred which, in its totality, was clearly negligent, and this can be considered grounds for accusation simply because many smaller errors are made which, in total, can be classified as gross negligence.

Around 2 a.m., another fatal misconception is said to have occurred. The defendant left his girlfriend alone to descend to the Erzherzog Johannhütte mountain hut and get help. His route can be traced on webcam images. If you imagine yourself in the log, you'll see where your partner left. You really don't know how or why, or if they argued or, more likely, discussed things in the aftermath. The defendant also allegedly failed to protect his partner from the cold and heat loss.
Leaving a partner behind is a no-go. You don't leave anyone behind, and him, I don't know what he was thinking, the poor devil, if I may say so, what he was thinking.
Now I have to leave her there.

He still has the not-so-easy final ascent to the summit to do. He has to take the normal winter route, which is a real challenge. Yes, if you can put it a bit bluntly, it's difficult, d
He has to go via the normal winter route with chains. Yes, if you may put it a bit in a roundabout way, it's difficult, then it's dark, right? He has to go to the Adlasruhe. So, it's quite an obscure story.

That is and that will remain. At 3:30 a.m., the defendant then made the emergency call. A helicopter rescue had to be called off due to strong winds.

The woman could not be recovered until 10:00 a.m., frozen to death alone 50 meters below the summit cross.
The defendant maintains it was an accident.
He then earnestly regrets that it happened this way. The prospect of the defense, however, is still to assume a tragic, fateful accident.

Such a charge is generally very rare, explains the lawyer and mountaineer Robert Walner.
A particularly common one is the so-called guide acting out of courtesy. We, as lawyers, also call it the de facto guide. This is the term used when someone voluntarily and explicitly takes over the leadership and when they are also significantly better qualified than the person being led. I can now remember a long time ago about the division of labor.
The Supreme Court in a landmark ruling regarding the 1984 Bitzbuin accident, established the criteria for when one speaks of such a de facto guide and then, in the Bitzbuin case, for the first time, ruled that the mountaineer is liable.
That was also a relatively extreme case. Back then, an experienced mountaineer was climbing th Bitzbuin in Vorarlberg with an inexperienced partner. The inexperienced climber is seriously injured, the tour guide is convicted. And even now, the court in Innsbruck is supposed to clarify what happened on the mountain. If I am a mountaineer, I have a great responsibility and that responsibility must be decided by the individual for themselves. You cannot be a court to say it happened this way or that way, because on the Grossglockner, under such conditions, it's difficult to make a decision, and you never know when human lives are at stake, how someone thinks and feels and then acts at all. There are simply situations up there that no one can change and cannot influence. That's the problematic thing about the mountain.

The main trial at the Innsbruck Regional Court is scheduled for February 19, 2026. Demand faces up to three years in prison. The presumption of innocence applies.

And here in my studio, I welcome Günther Kanutsch, head of the Salzburg Alpin Mountaineering School and for many years president of the Salzburg Mountain Guides Association.
Good evening, Mr. Kan.
Yes, good evening to you too, Mr. Kanutsch.
An indictment for gross negligent homicide. What were your first thoughts as an experienced mountain guide when you heard about it?
Well, it is, that was my first impression, a very complex case. So, there are a lot of individual decisions co-opting each other, some of which are quite astonishing.
Hmm. Indictments in such cases are rather rare. Um, would you say that in this case the facts are quite clear?
Well, anyone can make a mistake. So, even I, even mountain guides, colleagues, every mountaineer has made a mistake at some point. Small, or hopefully not a big one. But, uh, what's so striking here, uh, is, that a whole chain of apparent misjudgments preceded the tragic ending.
Mhm. Let's go through it. Um, according to the public prosecutor's office, the young woman from Salzburg was very poorly equipped, namely with, um, snowboard boots, with a splitboard. What does that mean when you're at over 3000 m altitude with such equipment in winter at sub-zero temperatures?
Yes, of course, the Stüdgrat in winter is absolutely a serious tour, not comparable to good conditions in summer. Uh, the day wasn't exactly a happy one either chosen because, as we learned, there was a strong storm, which of course made the whole thing considerably more difficult, but the equipment itself was, if I'm putting it cautiously, with the soft boots and the matching climbing boots, I would almost say not suitable crampons, uh, more than suboptimal, because soft boots are not comparable to the crampons with the ones my partner was using, the crampons were completely different, and these crampons for soft boots are therefore primarily suitable for climbing steep, icy slopes, but not for climbing mixed terrain. Experienced mountaineers then do a tour with short tours. In this case, the young woman from Salzburg had a splitboard with her, so a kind of snowboard.
What makes the difference here?
He might want to preface this by saying that the ascent of the Studelgrade is a winter ascent even without this extra luggage of the, uh, the tour and the splitports is already a challenge. But when I have that on my back up top, the whole thing becomes significantly heavier. Um, and that day there was strong wind or rather a storm, over 70 km/h, as we found out afterwards, and the wind, or rather the, but especially the splitboard, which is significantly wider even when disassembled than a (??), naturally offers an excellent surface area for wind or, in this case, a storm. Then it is sometimes really very, very difficult to climb, because it's very easy to lose your balance afterwards.
Yes. And that, of course, takes a tremendous toll on your strength.
Many are wondering, and we heard Peter Habeller's* commentary on this
(NO GO. NO GO was his commentary to it), why did the mountain guide, the experienced alpinist, leave his friend alone in the end?
How do you explain that?
Yes, it's not just inexplicable to me, so it remains probably whether one ever really knows what happened, that probably only he knows. But whether the truth will ever come to light, one can't judge, maybe at the trial, but it's inexplicable to me how one can leave someone behind, because we learn during mountain guide training, to leave a guest alone, and in this case there was a guest-client relationship, admittedly on a private level, but he was the experienced one, he was responsible for her and left her alone, and that is simply unacceptable. I can't leave someone alone on the mountain, especially not in this terrain under these conditions.
But does the law expect that on the mountain, the more experienced person assumes responsibility?
Yes, you're bringing that up now?
So, basically, many people are afraid of this.
Are you also liable on the mountain as a private individual?
Because the mountain is not a lawless space, that's quite clear. But, uh, it's like this: if I'm out today, even as a mountain guide, privately with people, I don't automatically have responsibility for these people. My responsibility only comes into effect once I go with these people who are with me into terrain where they wouldn't be able to manage on their own. Here, uh, there's a duty of care, and I also have to, and automatically then the responsibility for these people falls on me.
Um, now we saw in the report no distress signals to the helicopter, the cell phone on silent. Um, the young exhausted woman wasn't wrapped in a bivvy bag, nor in an avalanche blanket, or in a emergency blanket. If her companion had acted differently, the whole thing would have turned out differently, perhaps not with death?
Well, that's purely hypothetical. We can't answer the question, but what we can say is that the chances would have been significantly greater that she would have been probably already injured, but but at least survived. into a bivvy shelter that they would have had with them and if both of them could have potentially had space in it, ideally they would have had a two-person bivvy shelter with them so the person could cuddle up with them, let's say, and transfer their own heat to the other person. They would be protected from the wind, and the chances would have been significantly greater. And even if I only have a single bicycle shelter in conjunction with the aluminum sheet, which ensures that the heat doesn't radiate so much body heat, in combined with the windproof bivvy shelter, the situation then looks much more favorable for the person.
And why wasn't help called?
There was help. There was the helicopter that flew over the two of them. There were calls on their cell phones.
Why wasn't this help accepted?
We don't know, but it's really more than questionable um, why the help was basically refused and a short time later the partner was left alone, left unattended, and uh the companion tried to get help and left her alone and then she ultimately died. These two uh scales of events simply don't add up, and that is currently puzzling the media worldwide.
Mhm. Thank you very much for visiting the studio and for your analysis.
Thank you.
Thank you for this! I spent time reading the comments, and found several talking about and "ex girlfriend" from 2022-2024.
 
  • #352
Makes me wonder why LE is not pursuing First Degree Murder, or the equivalent in Austria's judicial system for premeditation. I suppose they simply don't have the evidence to prove that in front of a judge in February. One can only hope they'll find it. IMO.
 
  • #353
Thank you for this! I spent time reading the comments, and found several talking about and "ex girlfriend" from 2022-2024.
Some people are wisely pointing out that if with story like this all what guy can get is three years, then its basically and advertisement for other murderers.
Just worst case scenario youre gonna get caught lying, caught on cctv, spotted by people, called by rescue teams, flewn to by heli, turning your phone off and doing absolutely everything what could be done to make sure she wont make it to the end of the trail - youre facing just three years. Thats nothing. So many people have to worry with getting 25, live or death sentence in worst case scenario for them. So why not go for it?

Also, one more thing.
That guy who was doing record running-freeclimbing Gross in summer. He was not going exactly via Studlgrat but kinda to the side here and there to pass other climbers.
Maybe thats the reason heli had to look for them and lit the mountain. No way to divide much in any direction last 100m but bit below and below... theoretically... for someone who knows that route as good as that guy who ran and kept catching on these rocks knowing exactly where to put his hands and feet. She would be totally lost even on the route after dark but if he took her slightly off it there would be totally no way for her to know where to even put her feet an not fall. It looks almost like a wall on the left as youre going up. And not much better on the right.

As theyre confirming what could still be considered misinfo after all these differences in articles with details and specifics all over the place there is NO room for maybe he thought something very silly and naive and that handsight is 20/20.

This was murder.
Murder.
M u r d e r.

Murder pulled off in such an outrageous way that even the Mountain got angry and destroyed Studlgrat route so nobody else will ever climb it again.
Yeah, generally mountains cant get angry but in this case I prefer to believe that this one did.
 
  • #354
The main trial at the Innsbruck Regional Court is scheduled for February 19, 2026
RS&BBM

Does ANYONE here live near Innsbruck and plan to attend this trial??? If so, could you be our eyes and ears as it unfolds???

Source: within post I quoted from
 
  • #355
At least she could have been protected from the cold; the poor woman only wanted to collect a memory.
Welcome to Websleuths, @Phonix!! 😍

We welcome all sleuthing minds to help figure out what happened to poor KG and why.
 
  • #356
  • #357
Makes me wonder why LE is not pursuing First Degree Murder, or the equivalent in Austria's judicial system for premeditation. I suppose they simply don't have the evidence to prove that in front of a judge in February. One can only hope they'll find it. IMO.
Cause being dumb is not a crime.
I cant say that oh, such and unfortunate accident, I just happened to stumble and fall on my husband while holding a knife, and then I kept stumbling while trying to get my balance back what lead me to stabbing him 68 times and expect a jury or a judge to buy my story but with other stuff I could. And he can. Hes presumed innocent as he should be. Thats how were trying to prevent innocent people from going to prison and thats how some people are getting away with all sorts of crimes that arent even close to "perfect". Some people may know it, many other may suspect it, investigators may know it and he may keep claiming that it was totally accidental that on that day he forgot basically everything about climbing that didnt affected his wellbeing much.

I wonder if they do circumstancial evidence there or tend to focus only/mostly on physical/digital.
Physical here can be gaslighted away by mediocre lawyer Im afraid.
Digital by a good one.
But with circumstancial he should get boiled like a frog cause then his defense would have to not only provide hovewer sketchy and dumb sounding but borderline-theoretically-kinda-not-totally-impossible story of how his intentions were all good - they would also have to get some examples of similar events and get some reputable people to testify how Thomas's actions make sense to them, each single one of them and all combined together.
 
  • #358
And btw. No matter what his phone was doing, how it could possibly malfunction.
He climbed up and down then for God's sake. Sure as hell he could use his hands. He could keep trying to SOS in every direction. There are huts, there are restaurants, hotels, businesses, some people go out to have a smoke, some people go out with their dogs at all times of night, its not middle of nowhere but one of the most iconic landscapes in Austria, there 100% are people looking at it all times of the day.
He didn't know that?
He didn't know how to make sos signal?
He didn't knew how to make climbers distress signal with his headlamp?
He didn't knew that even just random light on the mountain would alert any local?

He summited few dozens of over 4000m mountains and he never heard anything about it from his male companions?
 
  • #359
LE do have both his and her phones, so I wonder whether they were able to find anything indicating problems in their relationship or any other kind of motive. Presumably, they have also interviewed their friends and family. If there isn't anything there, maybe that's why they don't want to charge anything more than negligence.
 
  • #360
Excellent recent local coverage with interviews. I downloaded German subtitles and autotranslated it to make it bit easier to digest.
That clears up so much.


What exactly happened on Austria's highest mountain, the Großglockner, on that bitterly cold night last January? A young woman from Salzburg died just meters below the summit, left alone by her boyfriend, an experienced mountaineer.
He says he went to get help.

But now he has to answer for manslaughter by gross negligence in court.
He was allegedly unreachable for rescuers for hours and then descended alone in the middle of the night. His weak, completely exhausted girlfriend froze to death, and much remains a mystery. Fabian Schaffer investigates.

The (?? gechiecht? - story?) is even mysterious because he's not entirely honest. That's unheard of. Leaving a partner behind is a no-go. NO G O.
If I can't get a helicopter and it flies overhead and nothing happens, I don't know anything, that's pretty suspicious. The sum of these bad decisions ultimately led to this fatal accident. At least that's the accusation from the authorities.

At the beginning of the year, a young woman from Salzburg froze to death on the Großglockner. Her friend and companion now faces trial. He could face up to three years in prison. Why does the public prosecutor's office believe there is someone to blame for the 33-year-old's death?

In the early morning hours of January 18th, the two mountaineers set off from the municipality of Karls towards the Großglockner. And according to the public prosecutor's office, this is where the first mistakes occurred. The authorities say they were about two hours too late.

Furthermore, the victim was wearing snowboard boots, completely unsuitable equipment for such a demanding mountain tour. "If we're talking about the planning," the prosecutor stated, "I have to say it was a complete miscalculation. It was a miscalculation in that they simply didn't consider the terrain. The slope is the (??), and that's difficult enough even in summer. Yes, it's grade III terrain. In winter, of course, there's the added snow. It might even be icy. The conditions are bad." Wind speeds of 74 km/h, temperatures of -8°C, resulting in a perceived cold of -20°C.

Shortly after 8 p.m., other climbers noticed the light on the ridge and raised the alarm. According to the public prosecutor's office, further progress was no longer possible at that point. The two climbers nevertheless did not make an emergency call. They also failed to send out any distress signals during a police helicopter overhead.
We were basically just waiting. We knew something was fishy, because that's just not how it works. If I can still get a helicopter, and it flies me, and they're not allowed to, I don't know, that's pretty suspicious for me. We don't know what really happened, they can't tell me, but something's not right there.

That's the case, it's mysterious, that's because he's not completely silent, that's just not possible. If I'm out so late, then I have to be behind. Here in the municipality of Kals, everyone knows the Grossglockner like the back of their hand, and yet nobody here understands what happened on the mountain on the night of January 19th.

After midnight, the 33-year-old has to give up, completely exhausted. She can neither go forward nor back. Her partner calls the mountain police at that time. Immediately afterwards, he puts his phone on silent, finally turns it off completely and no longer accepts any calls, according to the public prosecutor's office.
The sum of these, uh, poor decisions ultimately led to this fatal accident. At least, that's the accusation from the public prosecutor's office.

"Gross negligent homicide" means that, uh, misconduct occurred which, in its totality, was clearly negligent, and this can be considered grounds for accusation simply because many smaller errors are made which, in total, can be classified as gross negligence.

Around 2 a.m., another fatal misconception is said to have occurred. The defendant left his girlfriend alone to descend to the Erzherzog Johannhütte mountain hut and get help. His route can be traced on webcam images. If you imagine yourself in the log, you'll see where your partner left. You really don't know how or why, or if they argued or, more likely, discussed things in the aftermath. The defendant also allegedly failed to protect his partner from the cold and heat loss.
Leaving a partner behind is a no-go. You don't leave anyone behind, and him, I don't know what he was thinking, the poor devil, if I may say so, what he was thinking.
Now I have to leave her there.

He still has the not-so-easy final ascent to the summit to do. He has to take the normal winter route, which is a real challenge. Yes, if you can put it a bit bluntly, it's difficult, d
He has to go via the normal winter route with chains. Yes, if you may put it a bit in a roundabout way, it's difficult, then it's dark, right? He has to go to the Adlasruhe. So, it's quite an obscure story.

That is and that will remain. At 3:30 a.m., the defendant then made the emergency call. A helicopter rescue had to be called off due to strong winds.

The woman could not be recovered until 10:00 a.m., frozen to death alone 50 meters below the summit cross.
The defendant maintains it was an accident.
He then earnestly regrets that it happened this way. The prospect of the defense, however, is still to assume a tragic, fateful accident.

Such a charge is generally very rare, explains the lawyer and mountaineer Robert Walner.
A particularly common one is the so-called guide acting out of courtesy. We, as lawyers, also call it the de facto guide. This is the term used when someone voluntarily and explicitly takes over the leadership and when they are also significantly better qualified than the person being led. I can now remember a long time ago about the division of labor.
The Supreme Court in a landmark ruling regarding the 1984 Bitzbuin accident, established the criteria for when one speaks of such a de facto guide and then, in the Bitzbuin case, for the first time, ruled that the mountaineer is liable.
That was also a relatively extreme case. Back then, an experienced mountaineer was climbing th Bitzbuin in Vorarlberg with an inexperienced partner. The inexperienced climber is seriously injured, the tour guide is convicted. And even now, the court in Innsbruck is supposed to clarify what happened on the mountain. If I am a mountaineer, I have a great responsibility and that responsibility must be decided by the individual for themselves. You cannot be a court to say it happened this way or that way, because on the Grossglockner, under such conditions, it's difficult to make a decision, and you never know when human lives are at stake, how someone thinks and feels and then acts at all. There are simply situations up there that no one can change and cannot influence. That's the problematic thing about the mountain.

The main trial at the Innsbruck Regional Court is scheduled for February 19, 2026. Demand faces up to three years in prison. The presumption of innocence applies.

And here in my studio, I welcome Günther Kanutsch, head of the Salzburg Alpin Mountaineering School and for many years president of the Salzburg Mountain Guides Association.
Good evening, Mr. Kan.
Yes, good evening to you too, Mr. Kanutsch.
An indictment for gross negligent homicide. What were your first thoughts as an experienced mountain guide when you heard about it?
Well, it is, that was my first impression, a very complex case. So, there are a lot of individual decisions co-opting each other, some of which are quite astonishing.
Hmm. Indictments in such cases are rather rare. Um, would you say that in this case the facts are quite clear?
Well, anyone can make a mistake. So, even I, even mountain guides, colleagues, every mountaineer has made a mistake at some point. Small, or hopefully not a big one. But, uh, what's so striking here, uh, is, that a whole chain of apparent misjudgments preceded the tragic ending.
Mhm. Let's go through it. Um, according to the public prosecutor's office, the young woman from Salzburg was very poorly equipped, namely with, um, snowboard boots, with a splitboard. What does that mean when you're at over 3000 m altitude with such equipment in winter at sub-zero temperatures?
Yes, of course, the Stüdgrat in winter is absolutely a serious tour, not comparable to good conditions in summer. Uh, the day wasn't exactly a happy one either chosen because, as we learned, there was a strong storm, which of course made the whole thing considerably more difficult, but the equipment itself was, if I'm putting it cautiously, with the soft boots and the matching climbing boots, I would almost say not suitable crampons, uh, more than suboptimal, because soft boots are not comparable to the crampons with the ones my partner was using, the crampons were completely different, and these crampons for soft boots are therefore primarily suitable for climbing steep, icy slopes, but not for climbing mixed terrain. Experienced mountaineers then do a tour with short tours. In this case, the young woman from Salzburg had a splitboard with her, so a kind of snowboard.
What makes the difference here?
He might want to preface this by saying that the ascent of the Studelgrade is a winter ascent even without this extra luggage of the, uh, the tour and the splitports is already a challenge. But when I have that on my back up top, the whole thing becomes significantly heavier. Um, and that day there was strong wind or rather a storm, over 70 km/h, as we found out afterwards, and the wind, or rather the, but especially the splitboard, which is significantly wider even when disassembled than a (??), naturally offers an excellent surface area for wind or, in this case, a storm. Then it is sometimes really very, very difficult to climb, because it's very easy to lose your balance afterwards.
Yes. And that, of course, takes a tremendous toll on your strength.
Many are wondering, and we heard Peter Habeller's* commentary on this
(NO GO. NO GO was his commentary to it), why did the mountain guide, the experienced alpinist, leave his friend alone in the end?
How do you explain that?
Yes, it's not just inexplicable to me, so it remains probably whether one ever really knows what happened, that probably only he knows. But whether the truth will ever come to light, one can't judge, maybe at the trial, but it's inexplicable to me how one can leave someone behind, because we learn during mountain guide training, to leave a guest alone, and in this case there was a guest-client relationship, admittedly on a private level, but he was the experienced one, he was responsible for her and left her alone, and that is simply unacceptable. I can't leave someone alone on the mountain, especially not in this terrain under these conditions.
But does the law expect that on the mountain, the more experienced person assumes responsibility?
Yes, you're bringing that up now?
So, basically, many people are afraid of this.
Are you also liable on the mountain as a private individual?
Because the mountain is not a lawless space, that's quite clear. But, uh, it's like this: if I'm out today, even as a mountain guide, privately with people, I don't automatically have responsibility for these people. My responsibility only comes into effect once I go with these people who are with me into terrain where they wouldn't be able to manage on their own. Here, uh, there's a duty of care, and I also have to, and automatically then the responsibility for these people falls on me.
Um, now we saw in the report no distress signals to the helicopter, the cell phone on silent. Um, the young exhausted woman wasn't wrapped in a bivvy bag, nor in an avalanche blanket, or in a emergency blanket. If her companion had acted differently, the whole thing would have turned out differently, perhaps not with death?
Well, that's purely hypothetical. We can't answer the question, but what we can say is that the chances would have been significantly greater that she would have been probably already injured, but but at least survived. into a bivvy shelter that they would have had with them and if both of them could have potentially had space in it, ideally they would have had a two-person bivvy shelter with them so the person could cuddle up with them, let's say, and transfer their own heat to the other person. They would be protected from the wind, and the chances would have been significantly greater. And even if I only have a single bicycle shelter in conjunction with the aluminum sheet, which ensures that the heat doesn't radiate so much body heat, in combined with the windproof bivvy shelter, the situation then looks much more favorable for the person.
And why wasn't help called?
There was help. There was the helicopter that flew over the two of them. There were calls on their cell phones.
Why wasn't this help accepted?
We don't know, but it's really more than questionable um, why the help was basically refused and a short time later the partner was left alone, left unattended, and uh the companion tried to get help and left her alone and then she ultimately died. These two uh scales of events simply don't add up, and that is currently puzzling the media worldwide.
Mhm. Thank you very much for visiting the studio and for your analysis.
Thank you.

Amazing job, thank you!
Geschichte is story, right. ))

(Gesicht is face; I remember totally confusing the two words when I was learning German decades ago.) But if there are any confusion, my hubby knows German so feel free to ask! )
 

Guardians Monthly Goal

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
150
Guests online
1,190
Total visitors
1,340

Forum statistics

Threads
636,853
Messages
18,705,098
Members
243,940
Latest member
chriscantlose
Back
Top