• #601
The prosecution appealed because they saw the verdict as too lenient.

But the fact that TP felt there was no basis for the verdict really says it all about his character and ability to reflect on what happened.
 
  • #602
  • #603
Do Austrian judges normally take into consideration social media reactions to the defendant for mitigation in sentencing? Because that seems whack.
 
  • #604
I wonder how the higher court will rule?
And will a higher court simply review the transcripts and files, or will a whole new trial be held? As in, does the prosecution have a chance to do a better job, or does the higher court review the lower court's decision?
 
  • #605
Media release from Innsbruck Court. A beast to translate. I translated the parts I thought were important to see. file:///C:/Users/blueh/Downloads/Medieninfo_Urteil%20HV%20Gro%C3%9Fglockner_Schuldspruch.pdf

“ 2) For a penalty range of up to 3 years, a prison sentence of a total of 9 months was imposed. Part of this prison sentence amounting to 4 months was converted into a fine in accordance with § 43a para. 2 of the Criminal Code, the remaining part of the prison sentence of 5 months was suspended on a probation period of 3 years, the unconditional fine therefore amounts to 240 daily rates of €40 each, totaling €9,600."

3) In the conviction, it was assumed that • there was a factual leadership relationship with corresponding assumption of responsibility; • the tour was inadequately planned; • the tour was not aborted in time; • an emergency call was not made despite multiple opportunities; • only partially suitable equipment was provided by the defendant. the actual difficulty of the route in mixed rock-ice terrain was concealed or downplayed, and • the companion was led to believe that the summit and the Erzherzog-Johann Hut were reachable and that continuing was the only option. Kerstin G**, however, was unable to adequately assess the situation and respond due to insufficient experience

4) It was not accepted that: • the tour started 2 hours late, as the defendant could have expected a higher average speed at that time; • the accusation of carrying too little equipment, since the defendant did not carry any emergency equipment for himself, but could have used Kerstin G**'s equipment. • the use of the wrong belaying method (belaying from stand to stand instead of on the running rope), since the latter is taught in mountain guide training, but this belaying method is quite complex and could not reasonably be expected of the defendant considering the differentiated standard of care; • the allegation that the emergency call was placed not at 12:35 a.m. but only at 3:30 a.m. (he should have placed it much earlier anyway), as the court assumed that the defendant believed his description during the phone call at 12:35 a.m. would be sufficiently understood as an emergency call.

5) In mitigation of sentencing, the court took into account the defendant's previously unblemished record and the loss of his life partner; in addition, the public discussion on social media that was prejudicial to the defendant was considered.”


“• the tour started 2 hours late, as the defendant could have expected a higher average speed at that time;” - the first question that begs to be asked, is why the heck did the defendant not turn back when he saw a lower average speed? A lower average speed means either the weather is cra@@y or the partner can’t meet the demands or both?

“ the accusation of carrying too little equipment, since the defendant did not carry any emergency equipment for himself, but could have used Kerstin G**'s equipment.” - but he didn’t use Kerstin’s equipment even for Kerstin! He didn’t even cover her. This is so damning.

“the use of the wrong belaying method (belaying from stand to stand instead of on the running rope), since the latter is taught in mountain guide training, but this belaying method is quite complex and could not reasonably be expected of the defendant considering the differentiated standard of care”. This is what I was asking: is he, essentially, dense and can’t use what he was taught? Then he has no business dragging anyone in the mountains with him.

And what does “differentiated standard of care?” means? I read it as Kerstin was not his level of expertise in mountain training? Or does it mean that “in such a bad, windy weather it was hard to use a running rope?” Then again, why the heck did Thomas go up the mountain in such a weather?

“the allegation that the emergency call was placed not at 12:35 a.m. but only at 3:30 a.m. as the court assumed that the defendant believed his description during the phone call at 12:35 a.m. would be sufficiently understood as an emergency call.” - He waved away the helicopter at 10:20 pm! At 12:35 it would be probably impossible to land the helicopter. Any windows of time during which Kerstin could be saved, were lost. Even in the morning the saviors had to lower her body down the mountain, for the helicopter to land.

“In mitigation of sentencing, the court took into account the defendant's previously unblemished record and the loss of his life partner; in addition, the public discussion on social media that was prejudicial to the defendant was considered.”

Isn’t it a strange way to look at it: “poor me, I lost a life partner”? What about a woman who lost her life?
 
  • #606
Do Austrian judges normally take into consideration social media reactions to the defendant for mitigation in sentencing? Because that seems whack.
Plus, there are tons of YouTubers supporting him, starting with a bleating mountaineer in a hat and ending with the guy who states that his own wife is so helpless that he has to do everything, work, take care of the household and kids (I expected the dude to admit that he bore the kids himself, too, but no such luck).
 
  • #607
As they should. Since "the accused" insists on innocence then the "guilty" verdict is far from that.
And I dont't know, I can't tell for sure but it contextually sounds like A LOT (more than I mentioned) important questions werent asked.
I totally dont get why this judge get so highely praised for the trial. Yup, so many things he executed well.

But how, HOW an experienced climber, member of rescue team can so officially say that not even "still going for that climb despite of being late but in all best hopes that they will still make it in time" (which would be irresponsible but not outrageous) HOW BUT PLANNING IT TO START FROM LUCKNHERHAUS PARKING LOT PAST 7:00 IN THE MORNING, IN JANUARY was not criminally neglectful and dangerous?
That's essentially a blessing for people to get themselves in mortal danger - and others, and rescuers, by starting their tours so late cause judge Norbert Hofer ruled that's fine as long as every member of the group can count in somebodys eyes as a "strong athlete".
There is a reason why Lucknerhutte, Studlhutte and Adlershutte are there. Not entirely closed shut even during Winter-Winter time (as Winter climbing season starts in March) and that is to ensure climber's safety. So they can take a shelter there before or after their climbs. Cause it is D A N G E R O U S to do it all in one day. Thats only for very experienced people who also have a luck with weather (despite of following weather predictions, cause despite of that its still required for a safe climb).
There is a reason why vast majority of experienced climbers start "middle of the night" even in summer. There is a reason why no mountain guide would go on a January climb that starts after 7:00 in the morning.
To ensure people's safety! Cause doing it other ways is NOT safe.

This is absolutely outrageous. By itself. It should never be said, especially in a trial where whole world is watching.
At least to me still pushing forward with the escapade despite of the awareness of oversleeping few hours would be much LESS reckless and neglectful, in the context of accused's experience and knowledge (that he undoubtfully had) than planning it to start after 7:00 in the morning.
And why that wild ride from Matrei hasnt got adressed at all? Making all that distance in claimed, less than 15 mins, through all these narrow roads was:
1) reckless speeding,
2) not such a great indicator that everything went as planned - as if all was planned so well then why driving so fast?

If the accused had receipts for several, or even one, single one climb that started so late in Winter yet still went smooth with summiting and descending with daylight - could be a different story.
That could be in his mind a reason to assume that its all gonna be fine. Understandable reason.
But he DID NOT have that. He had a history of his own climbs lasting till dark, dark evening (started at unknown hour to me) and at least one deeply traumatized girlfriend. Thats severe change of context and limits the assumptions that can be made in good, responsible will.
One climb, several climbs starting late, going fast, safe and smooth -> the accused could assume in good faith that this time its gonna be like that as well.
Multiple nightly descends, possibly even ascends, on THAT VERY MOUNTAIN and at least one horrible situation there -> nope, the accused could NOT assume in good faith that everything is gonna be fast, safe and smooth. No by itself, even less with context that "strong athlete" with "relevant alpine expierience" who "had relationship with him on equal footing" never climbed Gross, never climbed in Winter, never climbed that altitude and didnt have gear as good and adequate as he did.
 
  • #608
As they should. Since "the accused" insists on innocence then the "guilty" verdict is far from that.
And I dont't know, I can't tell for sure but it contextually sounds like A LOT (more than I mentioned) important questions werent asked.
I totally dont get why this judge get so highely praised for the trial. Yup, so many things he executed well.

But how, HOW an experienced climber, member of rescue team can so officially say that not even "still going for that climb despite of being late but in all best hopes that they will still make it in time" (which would be irresponsible but not outrageous) HOW BUT PLANNING IT TO START FROM LUCKNHERHAUS PARKING LOT PAST 7:00 IN THE MORNING, IN JANUARY was not criminally neglectful and dangerous?
That's essentially a blessing for people to get themselves in mortal danger - and others, and rescuers, by starting their tours so late cause judge Norbert Hofer ruled that's fine as long as every member of the group can count in somebodys eyes as a "strong athlete".
There is a reason why Lucknerhutte, Studlhutte and Adlershutte are there. Not entirely closed shut even during Winter-Winter time (as Winter climbing season starts in March) and that is to ensure climber's safety. So they can take a shelter there before or after their climbs. Cause it is D A N G E R O U S to do it all in one day. Thats only for very experienced people who also have a luck with weather (despite of following weather predictions, cause despite of that its still required for a safe climb).
There is a reason why vast majority of experienced climbers start "middle of the night" even in summer. There is a reason why no mountain guide would go on a January climb that starts after 7:00 in the morning.
To ensure people's safety! Cause doing it other ways is NOT safe.

This is absolutely outrageous. By itself. It should never be said, especially in a trial where whole world is watching.
At least to me still pushing forward with the escapade despite of the awareness of oversleeping few hours would be much LESS reckless and neglectful, in the context of accused's experience and knowledge (that he undoubtfully had) than planning it to start after 7:00 in the morning.
And why that wild ride from Matrei hasnt got adressed at all? Making all that distance in claimed, less than 15 mins, through all these narrow roads was:
1) reckless speeding,
2) not such a great indicator that everything went as planned - as if all was planned so well then why driving so fast?

If the accused had receipts for several, or even one, single one climb that started so late in Winter yet still went smooth with summiting and descending with daylight - could be a different story.
That could be in his mind a reason to assume that its all gonna be fine. Understandable reason.
But he DID NOT have that. He had a history of his own climbs lasting till dark, dark evening (started at unknown hour to me) and at least one deeply traumatized girlfriend. Thats severe change of context and limits the assumptions that can be made in good, responsible will.
One climb, several climbs starting late, going fast, safe and smooth -> the accused could assume in good faith that this time its gonna be like that as well.
Multiple nightly descends, possibly even ascends, on THAT VERY MOUNTAIN and at least one horrible situation there -> nope, the accused could NOT assume in good faith that everything is gonna be fast, safe and smooth. No by itself, even less with context that "strong athlete" with "relevant alpine expierience" who "had relationship with him on equal footing" never climbed Gross, never climbed in Winter, never climbed that altitude and didnt have gear as good and adequate as he did.

Well, this judge did a good job.

We say "Alpine divorce" or "mountain divorce", and yet how often are people indeed found guilty?

Two people are hiking or climbing in the mountains, and only one returns. There are no witnesses. We hear of a rockfall, an avalanche, someone accidentally falling off the cliff, or freezing.

We also know "what goes in the mountains, stays in the mountains". Sometimes we read, "twenty years later, the body of such-and-such was found".

Go guess, an accident or an intentional act of the climbing partner? It never gets to court.

There is another side to it: some innocent teammate/s, indeed, end up living the rest of their lives under unfair spell of suspicion.

All of it falls under "mountaineering controversy, no witnesses".

This trial is one of the few rare ones that ended in "guilty" verdict. So we can commend the judge.

The story starts the usual way: an athletic couple departs for an allegedly consensual mountain trip, and only one returns. The survivor says all the right words, “I miss you so much. It hurts so incredibly much. Forever in my heart. Without you, time is meaningless." But note: there is zero survivor's guilt, which is shocking in itself. One of the grieving phases and emotions is totally absent. To me, it was very strange to hear, from the getgo: it was an equal partnership, we were both in peak physical form, one of us simply didn't make it. "Non mea culpa est". (Dude, don't you know that even if technically it is not one's fault, normal people always feel guilty?)

What was also different? First, this is not a horribly high mountain, the rescuers got the body, took photos and made the reports. They are cautious people, they don't accuse, but they know what people are not taught to do in the mountains. The judge was the rescuer, too. I assume that for many of them something felt odd.

And then: the witnesses below and the webcams on the other mountain. The webcams that registered everything seemingly making no sense. Two lights stuck, one getting dimmer and the other, bright and strong, moving down the mountain from the other side.

This is not the social media that's so damning nor even the previous girlfriend, although her testifying about the pervasiveness of Thomas's behavior was very important.

The photos from the webcams prompted the community to start asking, "what is he doing there? They are stuck, call the emergency." And finally, the damning, "i think it was on purpose".

It is all on cameras, Thomas. It won't disappear. It's what people see.
 
  • #609
“• the tour started 2 hours late, as the defendant could have expected a higher average speed at that time;” - the first question that begs to be asked, is why the heck did the defendant not turn back when he saw a lower average speed? A lower average speed means either the weather is cra@@y or the partner can’t meet the demands or both?
These "2 hours" are already the absolute minimum. It's AT LEAST two hours too late, with safe reality being that people start from Lucknerhaus at 3:00 in the morning or from Studlutte at 5:00.

That didnt happen as far as I noticed. The thing is that their speed from Lucknerhaus to Fruhs was very good and not concering by itself.
Getting at Fruhs at 13:30 was totally expected to happen with 7:00 start.
But with 13:30 at Fruhs there is just not enough time for remaining ascend and descend before sundown. In the Summer sure, but with frozen route it's loony assumption. Unless the totally probable assumption for him was that theyre gonna be next to breaking speed records with that climb. On her first Winter climb. It's loony. Would be loony even if she was climbing Olympic champ (if with no Winter&altitude experience).

So there are more questions to be asked before their insane slowdown. Like: what exactly made you to believe that youre gonna have such an impressive speed?
How accurate is climbing Dachstein comparison that judge made is best portrayed by the fact that Kerstin was able to climb it smoothly in March (so Winter still) despite of NO prior climbing (just mountaneering) experience. Because that route on Dachstein with the ladders isnt really a climbing route. Comparison as good as swimming 20km in the pool vs. swimming through Canal La Manche.
“ the accusation of carrying too little equipment, since the defendant did not carry any emergency equipment for himself, but could have used Kerstin G**'s equipment.” - but he didn’t use Kerstin’s equipment even for Kerstin! He didn’t even cover her. This is so damning.
He did have blanket and she sustained multiple injuries - how he hasnt thought about the emergency pack in his backpack before?
Does that imply that first aid kit in his backpack was just a dead weight for him? How much more deadweight he had in that backpack, especially that he used it as a reason for slowdown.
And what does “differentiated standard of care?” means? I read it as Kerstin was not his level of expertise in mountain training? Or does it mean that “in such a bad, windy weather it was hard to use a running rope?” Then again, why the heck did Thomas go up the mountain in such a weather?
Sounds like it means that cause she wasnt as experienced as he was, he was allowed to use stunningly risky rope move that predictably led to her slip, fall and hip injury. Her issue not his. No reason to expect from him that as a boyfriend he would make sure she has proper training and experience, but also cause she was his girlfriend a good reason why to be even more forgiving towards him.
“the allegation that the emergency call was placed not at 12:35 a.m. but only at 3:30 a.m. as the court assumed that the defendant believed his description during the phone call at 12:35 a.m. would be sufficiently understood as an emergency call.” - He waved away the helicopter at 10:20 pm! At 12:35 it would be probably impossible to land the helicopter. Any windows of time during which Kerstin could be saved, were lost. Even in the morning the saviors had to lower her body down the mountain, for the helicopter to land.
Why its still varying between 3:30 and 3:40?
And why she wasnt picking up her phone?
If according to him, she was still coherent till 2:00. What they were, according to him, doing during these 1,5 hours he allegedly spend with her? Where are these questions?
Why his story shrinked into her only allegedly saying three words? It was more in earlier statements, including his official statement from June.
“In mitigation of sentencing, the court took into account the defendant's previously unblemished record and the loss of his life partner; in addition, the public discussion on social media that was prejudicial to the defendant was considered.”
And that was probably why judge said:
The man's ambition was to get to a shelter as quickly as possible. "Not to save yourself, I don't
insinuate that with the best will in the world." Rather, the defendant had tried to find people who
could help.
But that is ridiculous.
For the sake of clicks and ad revenue news and sm got flooded with the story of a guy who left his girlfriend behind to save himself.
Its nicely catching story but has little to do with what happened here.
Leaving companion behind after calling for rescue and trying to save yourself while in panic and freezing is pretty damn far from gross negligence - as far as what happened there.
He got publicly accused and judged unfairly for another universe story... in the meantime he gets a pass from what he really did and for all the lies and creativity in his ridiculous explanations.
 
  • #610

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