Autistic boy banned from Minn. church

[XcomSquaddie]

Yes, that is about as clear as mud to a layman. LOL It even confused me.

I'm not sure I follow you.

 

[southcitymom]

it helps to a point but not so much in this case. i understand the behavior of the child is linked to his disability but his parents are not disabled. at least some of his behavior can be controlled if his parents make that choice.

in this case...
the child can not be held responsible for his failure to control his bladder. his parents can be faulted for failure to use depends.

the child can not be faulted for finding comfort in the sound of a car motor. his parents can be faulted for not keeping him out of the drivers seat of a car.

i could go on but i made my point. to me the child is not the problem, the parents are.

This is where I land with it to, sherri. And again - I understand that it can be hard as hell to raise a child with special needs, but - heck - it's just hard as hell to raise children - we can't back down from our responsibilities to the child and the greater society that the child impacts.

 

[sherri79]

If you've read my other posts in this thread, I agree with you one hundred percent. It is obvious that the parents are not capable of controlling his behavior. Thus, they should not attend mass.

It sucks, but life does that sometimes.

i read all the post. unfortunately i failed to connect the names with the post.. i suck. :crazy:

 

[philamena]

hey i used the news article title as the title of the thread. :croc::blowkiss:

I know sherri. :blowkiss:
I figured out 'eventually' that you only repeated the article's title. Sorry.

 

[philamena]

You are misunderstanding it, but only a little.

The behaviors that are causing the problems are symptoms of his autism. Essentially, his autism is the behaviors. There is no difference.

With a common cold the symptoms are often sneezing, fever, runny nose, cough, etc.

With autism the symptoms are behavioral and mental. Additionally, the symptoms are extremely varied in intensity and make-up.

If you've had experience with one autistic person it will not always help you when dealing with a different autistic person.

Does that help?

It actually does help a bit.
Thanks for taking the time to explain.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

i read all the post. unfortunately i failed to connect the names with the post.. i suck. :crazy:

lol. :crazy:

 

[Linda7NJ]

edited

I feel for this boy's parents, I really do. Sadly, the world doesn't revolve around their son. THEIR world may revolve around him, but the rest of the world doesn't have to. I think the church did the best they could.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Mygirlsadie]

Hey Glow! Let me just say while my son does have Autism I am no expert and am still learning as he grows. I can tell you that he DOES know right from wrong. We treat him exactly like his brother and sister and that goes for punishment as well.. We never wanted him to grow up and use his disability as a crutch or as an excuse to do 'bad' things. I remember when he was 4 we went out to eat and before our food even got to the table he went into thermal nuclear meltdown..I immediately took him out to the car and hubby got our food to go. It was due to someone in the resturant having a birthday and the staff came out singing happy birthday. For some reason he just can't handle stuff like that. You learn as they grow what they can and can't handle and you adjust. It makes it easier on everyone. I am sure his sudden outbursts are caused from Autism but when his big sister tries to give him a compliment like Oooh Christian your outfit looks so cute today'' and he hauls off and pops her one in the face BELIEVE me he gets punished for that and a good talkin to. He can't handle compliments or anyone really ''paying too much attention to him but he has to learn to deal with it and how to handle it.

Thank you for your thoughts on this Mygirlsadie.


I dont know enough about Autism so I have a question. IF this boy cannot have any expectations placed on his behavior then would that be because his autism is very profound? Is this how profound autism manifests itself? Can a child with autism in a home where the parents have trained and educated themselves as well as their autistic child, get a different result than a home where the parents dont try as hard?

I know that in any social setting (church, movie theatre, grocery store, etc) there are going to be children whose at home training is obvious. The opposite is true also. Is this the case with autistic children or is all undesirable behavior just credited to the autism?

 

[cheko1]

I feel for this boy's parents, I really do. Sadly, the world doesn't revolve around their son. THEIR world may revolve around him, but the rest of the world doesn't have to. I think the church did the best they could.

The church has offered to put a closed curcuit TV in the basement of the Church for them to attend services/ the church offered to go to there home & say mass. Apparently no solution is correct for the parents.

I do feel for the parents too. But they're going out of there way to be difficult....once again I think the Mom is going to attempt a huge lawsuit.

She has said she wants people aware of Autism. I can understand that too. But many people just want to go to church & not deal with kids crying or disruptive behavior or to be near knocked down, or have a child pulled onto his lap.

The family needs to learn about Autism & realize everyone isn't going to be as tolerant as they seem to be. We live in a lawsuit happy world these days & one day if he hurts someone they better have lots of insurance money.

 

[Yeah me]

Most people take immediate action to quiet or remove their child from a service if the kid is being disruptive. Period. It seems it just wasn't being done in this situation and it was starting to endanger others. The church was in a no win situation, but had to do what it had to do. Mom needs to get with it. I know it's not easy, but the world don't revolve around you honey.

 

[angelmom]

The church has offered to put a closed curcuit TV in the basement of the Church for them to attend services/ the church offered to go to there home & say mass. Apparently no solution is correct for the parents.

I do feel for the parents too. But they're going out of there way to be difficult....once again I think the Mom is going to attempt a huge lawsuit.

She has said she wants people aware of Autism. I can understand that too. But many people just want to go to church & not deal with kids crying or disruptive behavior or to be near knocked down, or have a child pulled onto his lap.

The family needs to learn about Autism & realize everyone isn't going to be as tolerant as they seem to be. We live in a lawsuit happy world these days & one day if he hurts someone they better have lots of insurance money.

These people are really pushing it. We just listened to a homily on Sunday about the importance of praying for and being open to vocations in our own families because of the severe shortage. Some priests are responsible for as many as 4 and 5 parishes now because there aren't enough to go around. I can't remember the last time I met a nun. My children attend Catholic school and my DD7 had no idea what that word meant when I said something about a nun a few weeks ago!

Do they think demanding all this special attention that no one else could/would get will help? Even the gravely ill don't get their own Mass said at their home! They get a Eucharistic minister to bring them Communion - not even a priest most of the time. This family should be so thankful for the offer and accept graciously on occasion or not - their choice - but quit bitching!

God is not calling fewer men and women to His service, but so many fewer can hear Him over the TV, iPod, Wii, and computer games. The ones who do are reluctant to join, fearing scandal and the constant stress of parishioners who want to be entertained and catered to 24.7.365.

And who can blame them? Would you want to be the person who has to deal with these people? I sure wouldn't. I feel sorry for their neighbors, pediatrician, the kid's teacher, the parents' coworkers, and friends.

 

[MCDRAW]

Hey Glow! Let me just say while my son does have Autism I am no expert and am still learning as he grows. I can tell you that he DOES know right from wrong. We treat him exactly like his brother and sister and that goes for punishment as well.. We never wanted him to grow up and use his disability as a crutch or as an excuse to do 'bad' things. I remember when he was 4 we went out to eat and before our food even got to the table he went into thermal nuclear meltdown..I immediately took him out to the car and hubby got our food to go. It was due to someone in the resturant having a birthday and the staff came out singing happy birthday. For some reason he just can't handle stuff like that. You learn as they grow what they can and can't handle and you adjust. It makes it easier on everyone. I am sure his sudden outbursts are caused from Autism but when his big sister tries to give him a compliment like Oooh Christian your outfit looks so cute today'' and he hauls off and pops her one in the face BELIEVE me he gets punished for that and a good talkin to. He can't handle compliments or anyone really ''paying too much attention to him but he has to learn to deal with it and how to handle it.

My daughter is autistic. We treat her just like her siblings, too. I didn't want her to use autism as a crutch either. Her brother just thinks she is stupid so maybe we should have raised her a little differently. I just wanted her to be able to function in society. She will probably never be able to live alone but I have high hopes for her. I would never allow one of my children to behave this way in public. If I couldn't control them, we would stay home. I know my daughter's autism is not as severe as this boy's sounds. Regardless, I think you have to respect others.

 

[ckhagen]

I don't know if anyone else here watched the video report that was done, but from my experience and observation of the video, I came to the conclusion that this boy is profoundly autistic. Most of the parents here with autistic children seem to have milder cases (not necessarily mild, but milder).

I had to compete against a very profoundly autistic boy about the same age as this one many years ago, in an intellectual competition. His parents were amazing and worked tirelessly with him. But still, there was very little control because of the level autism involved. It was awful honestly, but I felt more sorry for him than anything because although he was insanely intelligent, he had zero common sense, not much sense of right from wrong, and so little physical control over his body that it was a full time job just to keep him in a seat.

Most people would have probably screamed that he needed to be institutionalized or thrown in a basement somewhere. It sure would have made life easier for the rest of the world. But, his parents did their absolute best and I'll never forget the realization of what their lives must be like. My heart still aches for him even though I don't know him. My heart aches for his parents because of everything they've been through, the milestones he'll never reach, and the worries about what will happen to him when they're gone. I accept his behaviors for what they are, something he was totally incapable of controlling in almost any capacity. From that experience I approach these kind of disruptive behaviors from a profoundly autistic child with a sacrificial attitude.

The safety aspect does need to be dealt with, but banning them from church seems overboard to me.

 

[BethInAK]

Shouldn't he be more socialized by this age? I would like to know more about his special education, care, diet, etc. I honestly don't know what to think about this.

there are many levels of autism - its called a spectrum disorder for a reason. So no, he shouldn't necessarily be more socialized. He may just be quite severely autistic.

 

[justche]

I do not have a child with autism. I work offsite at a health center that treats autistic kids. I'm familiar with taca - and found this on it's website.
http://www.tacanow.com/views/letter.htm

There's a lot of info http://www.tacanow.com here.

 

[angelmom]

The safety aspect does need to be dealt with, but banning them from church seems overboard to me.

I really am with you, but it sounds like banning them only came when the family refused to address the safety aspect of the problem. The little old lady who got knocked down and the girl who was forced onto his lap deserve respect as well.

 

[sherri79]

I don't know if anyone else here watched the video report that was done, but from my experience and observation of the video, I came to the conclusion that this boy is profoundly autistic. Most of the parents here with autistic children seem to have milder cases (not necessarily mild, but milder).

I had to compete against a very profoundly autistic boy about the same age as this one many years ago, in an intellectual competition. His parents were amazing and worked tirelessly with him. But still, there was very little control because of the level autism involved. It was awful honestly, but I felt more sorry for him than anything because although he was insanely intelligent, he had zero common sense, not much sense of right from wrong, and so little physical control over his body that it was a full time job just to keep him in a seat.

Most people would have probably screamed that he needed to be institutionalized or thrown in a basement somewhere. It sure would have made life easier for the rest of the world. But, his parents did their absolute best and I'll never forget the realization of what their lives must be like. My heart still aches for him even though I don't know him. My heart aches for his parents because of everything they've been through, the milestones he'll never reach, and the worries about what will happen to him when they're gone. I accept his behaviors for what they are, something he was totally incapable of controlling in almost any capacity. From that experience I approach these kind of disruptive behaviors from a profoundly autistic child with a sacrificial attitude.

The safety aspect does need to be dealt with, but banning them from church seems overboard to me.

if the parents refuse to deal with the issue what is left for the church to do? the church has met with the parents, sent letters, offered mediation, then banned the family. banning was the last option when the parents refused to deal with issue. i agree it seems harsh but it seems outrageous that his parents will not place him in depends or that they allow him to rev the engine of their car much less the car of others. the parents behavior gave the church no other option.

 

[Taximom]

ckhagen, I have no doubts this young man is severely autistic. I'm hoping people understand when it is to that point, no matter what you do, their actions are very difficult to control, if at all.

I really do think the church tried to meet the family's needs to the best of their ability.

Bless this family for not institutionalizing him. That is a huge struggle for a lot of families with children like this.