Autopsy

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raisincharlie said:
Makes you wonder why it took them 2 and a half months to complete it doesn't it ? I suspect thatthere are lots of attachments that have not and will not be released, at least publically. JMO
Any other attachments and documents would be in the case files along with first print photos and used in scenario work to try and work out the order of injuries and position of the perp. All reports for LE have to be finalised before releasing the AR, so I can understand a long time slot if there are backlogs.

How large an area does Chapell Hill ME cover? There seems to have been a number of accidents/deaths in the areas surrounding since Chelle passed away, plus the decapitation of that poor Violette angel too. Her AR alone would taken some reporting to describe all injuries she had and hers would also be a top priority report.

Sami
 
Samiya said:
Blunt force injury to the left deltoid region (upper arm) which includes abrasion (scraping) and multiple contusions (bruises)
Blunt force injury to the extremities (hands, wrist area)...
Laceration of the left thumb
Abrasion of the right wrist
Multiple confluent contusions of both hands. (confluent = means that the bruises run together blending into one mass)

respectfully <snipped>


Sami

ETA: JMO

Sami,

The confluent bruises - hands and wrist areas - since the diagrams don't really show these very well - some notes indicate abrasions were present on some of these areas of her hands/wrists however not all. Could this possibly be due to either a second weapon (without stirations) or from someone grabbing her by the wrists ?

Don't mind me, this just is not exactly adding for me - but then again I'm not well versed with this kind of thing. Any ideas without going out too far on a limb?
 
Good morning Sami,

You mentioned the working out the order of injuries and position of the perp. I have also wondered about that but don't really know how to determine it. I do think like Charlie that the hard hit to her mouth to stun her was the first blow the killer threw. I wonder if he was wearing a ring? Then I suppose you have to go by the areas most bruised on down. I liked your idea Sami that he didn't specificly target her shoulder, but rather that it was in the way when he was hitting the back of her head and ti took 3 blows that were really meant for her head.

I also wonder if he removed the ring from Michelle's hand which augmented the bruising. Is the left hand more bruised than the other?

Thanks for all the info you'vwe given to us. What it does for me is give me a visual about how this crime went down, and that helps profile the killer to help determine who he was.

xoxo Scandi
 
scandi said:
Good morning Sami,

You mentioned the working out the order of injuries and position of the perp. I have also wondered about that but don't really know how to determine it. I do think like Charlie that the hard hit to her mouth to stun her was the first blow the killer threw. I wonder if he was wearing a ring? Then I suppose you have to go by the areas most bruised on down. I liked your idea Sami that he didn't specificly target her shoulder, but rather that it was in the way when he was hitting the back of her head and ti took 3 blows that were really meant for her head.

I also wonder if he removed the ring from Michelle's hand which augmented the bruising. Is the left hand more bruised than the other?

Thanks for all the info you'vwe given to us. What it does for me is give me a visual about how this crime went down, and that helps profile the killer to help determine who he was.

xoxo Scandi
Scandi, I'm no Sami but I wanted to say that I'd like to know more about the "teeth found near the head" (sorry if that's not the exact quote).

To me that sounds like MY was already down on the ground when her teeth were forced out by trauma, and probably unable to move from that point. I don't describe what I'm thinking very well, but I can't get over the teeth being close to MY's head in her final death position.

As far as her ring(s) go, I think she had removed her wedding ring either for bed, or because she knew the marriage was over. Again, presuming here.

It sure will be interesting when the facts come out, won't it?
 
Yes it will Sweetie ;} I only know about forensics in what I read here or see on basicly CSI Miami. LOL

But I do think Charlie is right with his thought that the first blow thrown was to stun her and render her helpless. A swift hit by the fist of the perp, was most likely aimed directly at her mouth. It was so hard it shattered teeth I think {although those words used in the autopsy report are not really familiar to me}. Her soft lips being slammed into the teeth by his fist would also give her cuts from those teeth inside of her mouth area. So she would have some teeth expelled out of her mouth at this point possibly, or resting inside of her mouth around her tongue.

After he was finished beating the back of her head he moved to the side of her face by the ear. There I think he struck 2 major blows, one below the ear and one right above it. The blow right above it is what I read would have loosened or shattered her back teeth, and at that point I guess the force of the blow would have opened her mouth for her to expell any teeth or pieces of tooth that had been broken off.

So hard to think about being slammed so hard to create that effect. That is a very imperfect and laymans view of what I think could have happened. And it is why I think most of the teeth and/or tooth fragments were in one specific area by her head. I am very sure she never moved her head after she ended up on the floor and those pummeling blows began.

And when he was done and saw what he had done, I think he didn't want to look at her face ever again, and threw a pillow to cover it up, and she was then gone from him and out of his life forever.

Oh, I promise I won't get carried away and start writ . . . . ;)
 
raisincharlie said:
Sami,

The confluent bruises - hands and wrist areas - since the diagrams don't really show these very well - some notes indicate abrasions were present on some of these areas of her hands/wrists however not all. Could this possibly be due to either a second weapon (without stirations) or from someone grabbing her by the wrists ?

Don't mind me, this just is not exactly adding for me - but then again I'm not well versed with this kind of thing. Any ideas without going out too far on a limb?
Hey RC, Scandi & Taximom....

I'll try to get you all in here....

Re: 'Striations'.... I am surprised that Dr Baden could only come up with a 'flashlight' in regards to striation marks....hence my not taking much notice of what he said, lol but a flashlight is only one possibility. Striations are commonly known as 'grooves', and appear on alot of surfaces, from flashlights (man made striations) to glaciers (natures striations). One common household item (well was before cd's arrived) was the vinyl record. Any edged item that is not completely smooth on the edges is also 'striated'. A serated edge on a knife is 'striated'. It is the type of striation that gives it the term 'serated'. Same as for 'scolloped' edges. Striation is usually left as the term for an item which has partial or complete sides groove marked. Such as the head of a flashlight, dumbells or barbells and yep the old vinyl record. For those who understand more.....the grooves made in a bullet when leaving the gun are also striations. As you can see, the word 'striation' covers a very broad range of items.

There is possibly 6 separate areas on the left hand and what looks to be possibly 4 on the right hand. Again it's not easy to work out with out photographs but the weapon, from the appearance of the bruising seems to be a wide based weapon due to the length of the of the bruising on the right thumb area and the singular bruise on the back of the left hand. There may be lighter bruising joining the darker bruising.

Both the laceration on the left thumb and the abrasion on the right hand near the wrist both seem to be on bony areas of the hand which would see the weapon glancing off, in particular the right hand area which has thinner skin covering than the thumb area on the left hand, which is soft enough to have a laceration form instead of an abrasion.

I don't think they're from wrist grabbing as that often entails bruising around the sides of the wrists as well as that is the area where the most pressure occurs during a restraining hold.

I do think that her hands saved her from being hit on the top of the head but unfortunately that is no consolation for anyone.

From what I can see matching both hands and the side of the head in particular the blows seem to have come in from a right swing in some areas and downwards in others, possibly from the perp standing over her body so I am using a guesstimate that one of the blows to the side of the head put her to the floor, possibly on her right side. If this is correct then she has rolled over onto her stomach, where the pregnancy would have impaired her lying copletely flat, and the resultant blows to the back of the head have then occurred. JMO and I could be wrong :)

Scandi, The easiest way to try and piece things together is to do a 're-creation' according to your thoughts. I'll give you a small 'snippet' in regards to the upper arm injury as an exercise and you can tell me what you see in a post....others welcome to do so too, just pm me for the re-creation :) You'll see that BFI 1 occured during the attack on the left side if the head.

I've sent it in a PM so we can keep our focus here :)

Taximom,

(oh, she groans, not me too, lol)

No scenario for you hon, unless you want to do Scandi's too.

Michelle might have taken them off before bed. She may have had a shower before bed and taken them off then, but if they had been on......they would have been listed in the AR as 'Evidence Collected'. Her fingers may have been too swollen in her pregnancy to continue wearing them or they may have been removed by the perp. That is something that LE would be looking into if they weren't found anywhere in the house.

As for the tooth/partial tooth left behind...It may have been near a foot on the bed, it may have been moved because of Cassidy being there for so long with her mom. It may have flown out of her mouth if the BFI 5 occured directly after the attempted strangulation.

JMO again :)

Sami
 
Thanks Sami, any insight is very welcome - my mind just won't let me go exploring into this very far - gives me the heebie jeebies and my imagination just does not want to go there.(:snooty: )
 
Last night I saw another victims' autopsy report on tv and noticed that the knees on that one did not have vertical lines on them. I noticed several vertical lines on MY's autopsy report (on the knees) but didn't see any coroner's notes about that. So either she had marks on her knees (defensive position on the ground?) or MY's autopsy report is just drawn differently than the one I saw. Just something else to add to the autopsy chat, I guess.

I'd be interested in knowing if there is a standard autopsy format ALL coroners use to indicate the body wounds and marks.

Thanks Sami, for your additional comments. No groaning here! :blowkiss:
 
Taximom said:
Last night I saw another victims' autopsy report on tv and noticed that the knees on that one did not have vertical lines on them. I noticed several vertical lines on MY's autopsy report (on the knees) but didn't see any coroner's notes about that. So either she had marks on her knees (defensive position on the ground?) or MY's autopsy report is just drawn differently than the one I saw. Just something else to add to the autopsy chat, I guess.

I'd be interested in knowing if there is a standard autopsy format ALL coroners use to indicate the body wounds and marks.

Thanks Sami, for your additional comments. No groaning here! :blowkiss:
Hi Taximom,

There are no 'standard' forms used, there are male and female diagrams also but this one is unisex. If it was an injury it should have been listed as a lesser factor.


I'm off to bed, lol it's after 02:20 here and I'm falling asleep at my keyboard!

Night all :)
Sami
 
raisincharlie said:
Scout,

We are trying to recall how far along Michelle was when the car accident occurred. Do you recall hearing ? For some reason I have it in my head she was just about as far along then. I can't find a link which substantiates this and therefore cannot decide if I am loosing my mind or not. Any recollection you have would be helpful. Thus the question about the C -section - would this have been from Cassidy or the baby lost after the wreck ? TIA

Sorry to be so late in getting to this. I'm having a hard time keeping up everywhere. I've never heard how far into her pregnancy Michelle was at the time of the accident. IMO, the scar on the abdomen is from a C-section to deliver Cassidy. I've had two of them. Transverse scar on the lower abdomen just as Michelle's is described.
 
As for the abrasions that Dr Baden attributed to a knurled object, I don't know where he's getting that. The ME gave very general descriptions of most of the abrasions. There is no mention of any patterned contusions and nothing to indicate that the abrasions revealed any sort of striated surface to the weapon. It could be that he was going by the lines the ME used to depict bruising and abrasions, but that could just be his method of shading, imo. I don't think Dr Baden spent much time going over the report, judging by what he said about the hair.
 
Scout said:
Sorry to be so late in getting to this. I'm having a hard time keeping up everywhere. I've never heard how far into her pregnancy Michelle was at the time of the accident. IMO, the scar on the abdomen is from a C-section to deliver Cassidy. I've had two of them. Transverse scar on the lower abdomen just as Michelle's is described.

Here's the info and link to Michelle's pregnancy:

"Young, 29, was found beaten to death in her Wake County home on Nov. 3 with her 2-year-old daughter unharmed by her side. Young was five months pregnant at the time of her death."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1175401
 
Sami, Hi if you are there. Did you hear anything interesting today from RPD at that other chatgroup? He was going to view the autopsy photos this afternoon then send pm's to everyone that was interested. Since I don't belong over there, I can't ask for a pm, so am checking with you to see what you might have heard. If there isn't anything worth posting here, would you please just pm me? My mailbox is empty ;(

Thanks!
 
AlfaGal said:
Sami, Hi if you are there. Did you hear anything interesting today from RPD at that other chatgroup? He was going to view the autopsy photos this afternoon then send pm's to everyone that was interested. Since I don't belong over there, I can't ask for a pm, so am checking with you to see what you might have heard. If there isn't anything worth posting here, would you please just pm me? My mailbox is empty ;(

Thanks!

ooooh, i forgot about that...heading to ctv right now!!
 
otto said:
Here's the info and link to Michelle's pregnancy:

"Young, 29, was found beaten to death in her Wake County home on Nov. 3 with her 2-year-old daughter unharmed by her side. Young was five months pregnant at the time of her death."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1175401

Thanks Otto but we are trying to figure out how far along she was when the car accident occurred. Any help would be appreciated!! :)
 
AlfaGal said:
Sami, Hi if you are there. Did you hear anything interesting today from RPD at that other chatgroup? He was going to view the autopsy photos this afternoon then send pm's to everyone that was interested. Since I don't belong over there, I can't ask for a pm, so am checking with you to see what you might have heard. If there isn't anything worth posting here, would you please just pm me? My mailbox is empty ;(

Thanks!

ok, apparently there's a link....it's a 'secret' link, for RPD's report on the autopsy photos....i left a post requesting the link, but don't know if it'll be sent to me....
 
I don't belong at CTV either but would be interested in reading his blog. If someone has the link and could PM me I would greatly appreciate it!
 
How about a quick synopsis, don't really want to read it. Is there any new information by viewing the wounds? Pictures of the hair on her hand?
 
pack_fan said:
How about a quick synopsis, don't really want to read it. Is there any new information by viewing the wounds? Pictures of the hair on her hand?
Please check your PMs - RC
 
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