AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe, 15 Jun 2013 - #8

[Woe.be.gone]

Not saying it can be applied to all cases, but in that case, the end result was actually the simplest. The last of 2 people to see her and the last person within the closest proximity to her. DNA cracked it, but LE was on the right track it seems from their first POI. It just took science to catch up with the evidence.

Am I confused? Are you saying Occam's doesn't apply to that case? Or did I read that wrong....?

Bernina, I just remembered my point of bringing up the other case. It is even though a case fits Occam's Razor, police can't always solve it. Luckily with DNA they eventually solved it but it took them 18 years iirc.

In AS's case, as far as we know, there's no DNA. :stormingmad:

I just noticed how much catching up I have to do here - yikes!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

"Pooley described the condition of the remains, which had been exposed to floods in the wash and possibly animals.

"The entire body was not intact," he says. However, investigators didn't think the shape of the body was necessarily related to the cause of death."

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/08/adrienne_salinas_case_not_obvi.php

IIRC, somebody saw her legs sticking out from under the bushes. And their was mention of a frame, which I think might mean skeletal remains.

Instead of "shape" do they mean condition? Word choice can make figuring out meaning so complicated.
The entire body was not intact. The body was not intact. I guess one can assume that parts of the skeleton remained intact just not the complete skeleton (which would be a miracle). Or, the important point may be that its condition indicates that it had travelled to where it was found.

Does frame mean something specific? Oh, look at this.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/imagepages/17182.htm
Frame refers to the size of one's bones, not their height. But height is used when considering one's frame size.

 

[cluciano63]

I just hope this case can be solved. As I said, I think it is more solvable if the killer(s) was someone close to her...but I just don't feel that so far. Some of these girls had known her for many years, as did her boyfriend. Not like Lauren, where she only knew most of those people from college, who may or may not be involved with her disappearance. I just can't see covering up a death or killing her. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

Instead of "shape" do they mean condition? Word choice can make figuring out meaning so complicated.
The entire body was not intact. The body was not intact. I guess one can assume that parts of the skeleton remained intact just not the complete skeleton (which would be a miracle). Or, the important point may be that its condition indicates that it had travelled to where it was found.

Does frame mean something specific? Oh, look at this.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/imagepages/17182.htm
Frame refers to the size of one's bones, not their height. But height is used when considering one's frame size.

Yes, condition, IMO. I think what is being said is that they believe her body came apart after the fact, from the environment, not from the crime.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Wells out here are so different than what you see in the old Westerns. For residential and small acreage agriculture, there is only going to be a 6" diameter pipe going down into the ground. This is the outer casing. This casing will go down until the sides of the hole maintain their shape. Then pipe, ranging from 1-3" diameter in 12-15 foot lengths is dropped down and screwed or affixed onto the next length of pipe. Depending on the depth of the static line (the water level) and how far below that you want to draw water, the actual pump head is inserted between 2 sections of pipe and dropped down the hole with your electrical lines.........When it's all said and done, the top of your 6" pipe is covered with a metal cap, lines are run from the lower sides of the 6" to your pressure tanks and the electrical off the top, split between your power source and the pressure tank gauges.
No buckets and cranks, or the little girl from "The Ring". :floorlaugh:
Depending on the city and county zoning laws and ADEQ, well requirements vary. Some cities will not allow you to deepen or drill a new well if it goes dry, and you have to run lines to city water. Sometimes water districts will vote to sell their water shares to another city and you loose your well rights.
I think that kind of covers that..........now you can go dig a well!

Thank you for your thorough answer. Does that mean the answer to my question - could AS's body been dumped in a well - is no?
Sounds like it as there's no, well, well. Why call it a well then? Sounds more like a plumbing system (underground plumping).

Therefore, she must have been left in a trench either somewhat buried somewhat or not. Still, can't figure out the vultures so many weeks beyond tod.

Is it possible she was placed in an old pressure tank and it surfaced? Do those have openings?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It is possible that they are minimizing what they have to let the perp(s) feel comfy enough to make a mistake. At least that's what I'm hoping for! So where did those friends of hers go to on the beach trip after she went missing? Anyone know? Just curious and hope I'm not pointing fingers or breaking rules or anything... JMO

bbm First I heard anything about a beach trip. Which brings me to my next question, if the party ended at 5:00 a.m., when do they sleep?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If you knew that the police was going to question you about what happened would you talk to your friends about what happened and when beforehand?

You may agree on the time that you saw someone and both tell the police the same thing. MOO.

True but weren't they concerned about AS too? Or didn't they know she was missing yet? I missed the beginning of the case so may I ask where the roommates were the next day? The party ended and they believed AS was with bf on Sunday?
Did they sleep for a few hours and then went to their jobs? Went out? Ignored the animals? What?

Tacking this on here ~ Excuse me if I sound hoity toity making the following remark. But I was young once; my friends and I were considered hippies. The boys looked worse than the girls - lol! They had all that long hair and looked rather scruffy. We partied but never once did I see dog poop laying on the floor in anyone's apartment. We may have been high a time or two but we didn't ignore our pets (mostly we didn't have them yet because we couldn't afford or take care of them properly). For the most part, we were still conscientious and tended to menial chores. What's happening to civilization? I can't get over the animal feces and urine all over the apartment. That's not normal. The police report didn't make it sound as if one poo-poo was found in one location, ya know?

 

[Bernina]

Thank you for your thorough answer. Does that mean the answer to my question - could AS's body been dumped in a well - is no?
Sounds like it as there's no, well, well. Why call it a well then? Sounds more like a plumbing system (underground plumping).

Therefore, she must have been left in a trench either somewhat buried somewhat or not. Still, can't figure out the vultures so many weeks beyond tod.

Is it possible she was placed in an old pressure tank and it surfaced? Do those have openings?

Sorry! No, she couldn't have been placed in a well. And pressure tanks have a very small opening at the bottom, about a 3" dia.
If she was buried, the vultures wouldn't have shown up, and if they did, they'd eventually leave if no other predators dug up the remains.
Here I have to clarify something......we have "Buzzards", the common name for "Turkey Vultures". As far as birds go, they have an incredible sense of smell. When a body starts to decompose, it gives off specific gases during specific stages of decay. Buzzards are attracted to a gas specific to the early onset of decomp, (can't think of the name of the gas :facepalm they won't be interested in something that has been decaying for several days, so it lends to the theory that she was buried deep in sand (more of a drying process than decaying process) and washed up by the floods which re-hydrated the remains causing a slow decomp.
Carrion birds are studied in similar fashion as insects that are attracted to carcasses. They show up at specific stags of decomp, so they can also be factored into the TOD and how long remains were buried and/ or exposed.
Buzzards are really fascinating if you want something interesting to read about. <-----JMO.

 

[Sunshine95]

bbm First I heard anything about a beach trip. Which brings me to my next question, if the party ended at 5:00 a.m., when do they sleep?

Yeah, wish I could recall/ find that info- hopefully someone can help out

My guess as to when they sleep- either nap during the day (I remember going with only a few hours of sleep a night for short periods in college) OR binge on stimulants so they don't feel a need to sleep~ IMO

And in the comments about friends since childhood, not being able to see such a friend doing anything... my view on this has been forever changed with what was done to Skylar Neese- friends since childhood plotting and violently murdering her because "they didn't want to be friends anymore." IMO some folks surrounding Adrienne seemed to act less than compassionate and close, based on what I have read/ seen.
All MY OPINION!

Edit to ask: Does anyone have notes handy with the name of person roommate said had crush on Adrienne? I didn't note that, and with this archaic computer I am using, would rather not spend the next hour trying to pull up the police report to find it...

 

[cluciano63]

I guess I am hoping there is a difference between girls of 15-16 and a group of supposed adults all over 18. (Re: Skylar)

 

[Bernina]

True but weren't they concerned about AS too? Or didn't they know she was missing yet? I missed the beginning of the case so may I ask where the roommates were the next day? The party ended and they believed AS was with bf on Sunday?
Did they sleep for a few hours and then went to their jobs? Went out? Ignored the animals? What?

Tacking this on here ~ Excuse me if I sound hoity toity making the following remark. But I was young once; my friends and I were considered hippies. The boys looked worse than the girls - lol! They had all that long hair and looked rather scruffy. We partied but never once did I see dog poop laying on the floor in anyone's apartment. We may have been high a time or two but we didn't ignore our pets (mostly we didn't have them yet because we couldn't afford or take care of them properly). For the most part, we were still conscientious and tended to menial chores. What's happening to civilization? I can't get over the animal feces and urine all over the apartment. That's not normal. The police report didn't make it sound as if one poo-poo was found in one location, ya know?

BBM: For all means and purposes, the LE's description sounds more like "crack house" than an apartment shared by 3 young women going to college and working. Could be just me, but I did the late hippie thing and our place was pretty emaculate...and my 3 other roomates were guys! We had my Norwegian Elkhound and one of the roomie's Irish Setters and 2 cats. Indoor/ outdoor because we had a fenced back yard.

 

[Bernina]

Yeah, wish I could recall/ find that info- hopefully someone can help out

My guess as to when they sleep- either nap during the day (I remember going with only a few hours of sleep a night for short periods in college) OR binge on stimulants so they don't feel a need to sleep~ IMO

And in the comments about friends since childhood, not being able to see such a friend doing anything... my view on this has been forever changed with what was done to Skylar Neese- friends since childhood plotting and violently murdering her because "they didn't want to be friends anymore." IMO some folks surrounding Adrienne seemed to act less than compassionate and close, based on what I have read/ seen.
All MY OPINION!

Edit to ask: Does anyone have notes handy with the name of person roommate said had crush on Adrienne? I didn't note that, and with this archaic computer I am using, would rather not spend the next hour trying to pull up the police report to find it...

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/crankycrankerson/media/Adrienne%20Salinas%20%20-AZ-/3.jpg.html?sort=6&o=74

Initials "J.C."

 

[Sunshine95]

BBM: For all means and purposes, the LE's description sounds more like "crack house" than an apartment shared by 3 young women going to college and working. Could be just me, but I did the late hippie thing and our place was pretty emaculate...and my 3 other roomates were guys! We had my Norwegian Elkhound and one of the roomie's Irish Setters and 2 cats. Indoor/ outdoor because we had a fenced back yard.

TOTALLY agree with you! I've seen homes like that only when the people living there are using hard drugs, not drugs traditionally used by hippies. Crack, cocaine, heroin, meth, pills...
Where does one get/ purchase such drugs? Hmmm..... And IF there were people there using such drugs, then ANYTHING could have happened, all IMO.

 

[Hejlena]

Please forgive me-I've really tried to search back for the information about Adrienne sobbing in the living room and two roommates (?) in her bedroom--can anyone point me to an explanation why these two were in her room? TIA

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Sorry! No, she couldn't have been placed in a well. And pressure tanks have a very small opening at the bottom, about a 3" dia.
If she was buried, the vultures wouldn't have shown up, and if they did, they'd eventually leave if no other predators dug up the remains.
Here I have to clarify something......we have "Buzzards", the common name for "Turkey Vultures". As far as birds go, they have an incredible sense of smell. When a body starts to decompose, it gives off specific gases during specific stages of decay. Buzzards are attracted to a gas specific to the early onset of decomp, (can't think of the name of the gas :facepalm they won't be interested in something that has been decaying for several days, so it lends to the theory that she was buried deep in sand (more of a drying process than decaying process) and washed up by the floods which re-hydrated the remains causing a slow decomp.
Carrion birds are studied in similar fashion as insects that are attracted to carcasses. They show up at specific stags of decomp, so they can also be factored into the TOD and how long remains were buried and/ or exposed.
Buzzards are really fascinating if you want something interesting to read about. <-----JMO.

So she must have been buried (thus no vultures/buzzards yet). But she was found by a land owner because he noticed vultures around a particular area on his property. Therefore, her body had been preserved to a certain extent until it was found. If TOD was within 24 hours of her disappearance, isn't it rather incredible anything was left that interested vultures? Not to mention that at least a week had gone by since the wash/flood until she was found on August 6. How, pray tell, was there anything left on her body that would interest vultures? A scientist will know the answer or the possibilities as to how or why this occurred. Like you say, the body follows a natural progression of breaking down after we die. The elements/conditions either speed up or slow down the process. Heat speeds up the process. The desert is hot. When and where was she placed and under what conditions?

I'm curious if the autopsy revealed time of death. Extensive testing involving bone marrow is probably being conducted to reveal more information.

 

[ArianeEmory]

WELCOME!!!! Glad you joined us!
Thank you so much, too, for your take on my earlier post/ question...
AND thank you for this information- I wasn't aware of either and it just made my thoughts take a spin, again... Are all of these connected? SO VERY GLAD the 16 year old got away!

For the more experienced WS folks, is there an easier way to locate specific posts other than scrolling through thousands? I wanted to find the article about the car that had what sounded like screams coming from the trunk- did those descriptions match the description of the suspect in this article above that PI shared, the perp that TRIED to abduct the 16 year old (I wish I could laugh in that perp's face, rubbing it in :floorlaugh: and say really mean, hurtful things!) Just saying...

There should be a "Search this thread" link towards the top right of a thread. If you use tapatalk, it's a lot easier to search from the web interface instead.

 

[cluciano63]

No, the cab driver was not the same, nor did he work for the same company. His name and info was in the article posted here last night.

 

[Good witch]

I believe Adrienne was studying journalism. Her father described her as a responsible girl.
Knowing how sick Adrienne had been and had not even been approved to go back to work yet I find it hard to imagine she was drinking very much at all. There was an early report from her friends I believe that said she was not drunk. It would seem like someone like the BF or room mates would have been able to comment as to her drinking habits and whether this night she was under the influence or not.

jmo

I also remember this comment,and it made me think very early on that she was not drunk.If I remember correctly it said "She was not F#%%^#@% drunk" sorry had to bleep a word.

 

[LadyL]

where's thread #7?

I can't find my way back

ETA: never mind - found it! you folks move fast!

 

[Good witch]

Ok, FWIW, last night I meditated for an hour on the events of the night in question before falling asleep. I put myself in Adrienne's place and really tried to reenact the timeline, which has always been very hazy to me. I have always thought there are many possibilities in this case as to the person(s) responsible, everything from someone(s) close to her, to someone at the party, to George, to a random perp, (and everything in between).

Last night I was able to really recreate in my mind the legitimacy / possibility of a cover up by someone(s) close to her. I wondered if there might have been a struggle in the car (hence the crash)...

I guess what I'm saying is that I am not ruling out anyone close to her, or anyone at the party, and I think the possibility of a cover up is still on the table. JMO.

I wonder, though, if someone else called the cab pretending to be her, would they not be afraid to do this for fear that the calls coming in may be recorded and later crosschecked to reveal that it is in fact not her voice? Or, they didn't think about this, or they didn't think this was likely...

IMO, just because LE does not officially name someone as a suspect or POI, it does not mean that they do not have their eyes on them. For instance, look at Mark Redwine. New search warrant issued, yet no arrest.

I know I'm all over the place in this case, that every day I lean toward a different theory. Today my hinky meter is up on those known to her.

*edit: I know someone(s) is not a word, lol.

Thanks for your post margarita25.I lay in bed every night and think about what could have went down the night A went missing.I was beginning to think I'm flipping out lol! I also have been leaning towards someone disguising their voice to make those calls to cabbie or A was with a certain someone and she made the calls of her own free will or was forced to make them. My theories are also all over the place,but when one is blown out of the water the wheels start turning again lol.I have a new theory but have not posted yet still trying to work out a couple of bugs.