AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe, 15 Jun 2013 - #8

[Woe.be.gone]

The thing about the cab driver though is that he's been driving a cab a long time, right? Has he ever been accused of treating a fare or any woman in an inappropriate way before? What's his approximate age? Why would he, all of a sudden, threaten (and kill) a young woman? He'd have to be nuts to respond that intensely over an unpaid fare. Besides, there's no evidence that AS entered his cab. Please tell me that the police checked his cab as a precaution. Of course, at that early date, they didn't have a body so odds are they didn't. I suppose cabs are detailed fairly regularly too.

Being falsely accused is a terrible thing though.

 

[Public_Hysteria]

Hi all, just checking in. I haven't been around much lately, I had a death in the family last week so I've been spending most of my time with my loved ones.

I'm very sad to find that there's not really much more information about potential suspects. I really hoped justice would be served quickly once Adrienne was found.

My thoughts are with her friends and family, I hope they find the answers they need very soon.

Keep up the great work, sleuths. :grouphug:

 

[kymas3434]

The thing about the cab driver though is that he's been driving a cab a long time, right? Has he ever been accused of treating a fare or any woman in an inappropriate way before? What's his approximate age? Why would he, all of a sudden, threaten (and kill) a young woman? He'd have to be nuts to respond that intensely over an unpaid fare. Besides, there's no evidence that AS entered his cab. Please tell me that the police checked his cab as a precaution. Of course, at that early date, they didn't have a body so odds are they didn't. I suppose cabs are detailed fairly regularly too.

Being falsely accused is a terrible thing though.

Refusal of a lie detector test is a red flag in my opinion.

 

[Sunshine95]

I keep coming back to what is reported to LE and what is fact. We keep creating theories based on statements made by people to LE, myself included, but what if some/ all of them are not true statements?
Still wondering if there has been anything other than a person or two's statements that she came back after the wreck has been corroborated- and no one saw her? Doesn't sit right with me.
What do we KNOW, excluding the recollection or explanation of others? Should we strip it down to the bare bones and examine it excluding the subjective statements of others?
If so, can you help me do that? I know earlier there were some great timelines and summaries created...
And we could say, "a call from Adrienne's phone" was made, based on bf's phone evidence shown to LE instead of "Adrienne called" since we can't prove it was her on the other side...
Been also thinking about the multiple calls made to bf- could it be that someone else decided to "call him a bunch of times" to make it look like she was calling him, and so that person kept hitting the send button.... which could maybe explain the over doing it instead of her being in hysterics?
Also, re the pregnancy question... maybe if she was pregnant, it was the father who had a hard time with it, not her. JUST A THEORY not saying it is a fact or anything like that! But that's what I first thought of when the idea was brought up- a former student of mine was murdered, was pregnant, and although it has yet to be solved, the consensus is that the father of the baby did it...
Oh, and Bernina, I took notes on the water survival tip- thank you!
ALL JUST MY OPINION :twocents:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I know we can't sleuth a particular person but I'm interested in the other young man who is said to have had a crush on Adrienne. He may be an upstanding great guy or he may have been a drunk horny cad that went too far and things got out of hand.

As far as the bf is concerned, it's hard to imagine that someone that was AS's friend since 6th grade would end up killing her. I know when romantic love enters the picture, the plot thickens - but still. I wonder why, if he wanted space, he continued to come around. Why not stay in Scottsdale then? Does bf know AS's father well? Did AS know his mother?

In an article I read today, AS's dad said that AS had been at a birthday party her last night. We know she was at her own apartment. Whose birthday was it? I'd not heard that before.

 

[Sunshine95]

I know we can't sleuth a particular person but I'm interested in the other young man who is said to have had a crush on Adrienne. He may be an upstanding great guy or he may have been a drunk horny cad that went too far and things got out of hand.

As far as the bf is concerned, it's hard to imagine that someone that was a AS's friend since 6th grade would end up killing her. I know when romantic love enters the picture, the plot thickens - but still. I wonder why, if he wanted space, he continued to come around. Why not stay in Scottsdale then? Does bf know AS's father well? Did AS know his mother?

In an article I read today, AS's dad said that AS had been at a birthday party her last night. We know she was at her own apartment. Whose birthday was it? I'd not heard that before.

Skylar Neese.
And I saw an ad for a new show about people killing their BFFs...

And I have been very very curious about the boy with the crush, too! Either your theory, or that he observed more than what we know. When I was young with a crush, I watched closely and picked up on very subtle exchanges and responses... I wish we could talk to him... anyone know anything more about him? Am I allowed to ask? Sorry if I am not! Just want to know what he saw that night~

Editing to add: Read the article posted upthread which said that she attended a birthday party the night she went missing. (Sorry still trying to get the quote thing right) I've never said someone attended a party when it was their party, at their home! Could be reporting to blame, but could it be that she was at another party that night? Before or instead?

 

[WideOpen]

Well in a way I still think police know more and are saying these things to throw off the perp into thinking they have nothing and are watching his/her every move and waiting for them to break or return to the scene of the crime to make sure they cleaned it all up. LE has used these tactics before and could be doing it again. Forensics are amazing these days so I'm sure they will get there answers.

I have been following along for Adrienne since she initially went missing. I have followed many cases but I do not think many as closely as Adrienne's. Some of yall know I also have a cab company in a college/tourist town and I very strictly questioned the cabbie timeline of events early on.

These are our customers, our streets, our town. Cab drivers are very observant and aware of everything going on in their work environment. With Tom Sr being the cab company owner, his son Tom jr was handling the phones, driving and was described by TOM SR. as night shift manager. Sounds like there was one other cab running at the 5am hour who Tom Jr met up with that night to collect the percentage or cab rental fee after Adrienne was a no show. Then Tom SR said Tom JR stopped by his home and conducted any needed business. This might be dropping off the logs, $money and the dispatch phone.

I believe its very possible that there were plenty of verifiable records or data for LE to verify his where abouts and like to remember that Tom Jr's home was searched, he was questioned and they took DNA. Tom SR reminded us that this was all voluntary and out of concern for Adrienne's well being. Tom Jr. wanted to clear his name and his fathers company. The whole fact that LE searched his home, took DNA was quite shocking and rattled me even more when considering the timeline. So many of us here follow many cases and are quick to judge and follow LE's words and action as gospel. We learn to read between the lines and predict from experience what we think it all means.

But soon there was a campaign to hush all that talk of cabbie. I would do the same thing for my company. This is my business and how I support my young children as a single woman and mother. BUT, in those early days it also shocked me because as Social media savy as Tom SR is there was no mention of Adrienne or the missing girl from Tempe. I find this lack of concern speechless. When a beautiful young woman went missing in our town I had missing posters posted in my cars. Remember, we are out in the public, this is our town and we can reach many segments of the population and help spread the word. Anyways...

My point is that IMO LE is playing smoke and mirrors here, or cat and mouse because from early on LE recognized what they are up against. This is a very complicated group of characters with an incredible timeline. I so far have to say Tempe LE is an experienced on the ball force. I really am impressed.

jmo guys! I am appreciating all of your hard work and thoughts.

Also, to the Salinas family-God bless you, I am so sorry.

 

[Bernina]

Thank you Bernina. If I'm ever lost in the desert, I hope I'm with you!
My brother told me about a show called 'Naked and Alone'. Two strangers, a man and a woman, are sent out to survive in a challenging environment. Upon arrival, they have to get naked and work together to survive. Can you believe this is a reality show? I watched two episodes. Well, and I mean this as a compliment, you could apply to be on that show as you have the survival skills. Do you know about snakes and spiders too?

So, do you think AS was hidden in a prepared trench and covered up? That sounds feasible, right? Afterward, lo and behold, the flooding happened. Sometimes one has reason to exclaim, "yes, there is a God". That is, an attempt to conceal has been exposed.

Also, what purpose do the structures (seen toppled over) serve on a regular basis?

BBM
I know about the venomous snakes in Arizona and spiders, and anything I don't know I asked my old buddy from kindergarten who went on to get several doctorates in herpetology. I actually put out snake traps for him every summer on our properties in his search for the elusive Arizona Milk Snake. We also swap birds occasionally, I got a smokin' deal trading him 9 Sebastopal geese for a pair of mute swans!
So, I'm looking at this crime as a sudden opportunity, not planned, so pre-planning the dig I haven't factored. To do it quickly, if it was done within 24 hours after the disappearance, 2 people could spend 20-30 minutes and have something sufficient at a depth of 4 feet. That time of the year, the sand is going to be dry for the first feet or so, it gets a bit heavier as you dig deeper. (lightly damp sand vs Dry sand, if you ever had to shovel it). That's also factoring a temp that ranged from 79-106 degrees in a 24 hour time period with partly cloudy skies, low humidity. A solitary person digging would take 45 mins to an hour and that would be early morning, around 3-4:00 am, the temp would be around 82-84, but the lack of sun would help their body from becoming over heated.
When you have flash floods, ANYTHING is possible as far as what is contained in the water. Some of those out buildings could have come several miles up stream. I saw a few "pump houses" close to the dry wash. These are small house that contain the "well head" and "Pressure tanks" when you have a well. There is usually water under the dry wash, so it is common practice to drill your well close to the washes to hit the water table or these under ground rivers below the washes. Some of the buildings could have been chicken or pigeon houses, this is a rural kind of area where the parcels allow for livestock and domestic animals so you'll see small outbuilding all over. Whether they were in use or not, many people in rural areas hold on to things and you never know when you might get more poultry. As far as putting a body in one, the predators down there would have found a way to get in. Bobcats and coyotes can be very industrious when it come to wood, wire and rock barriers. And the vultures and buzzards would have perched on the top of the buildings, to say nothing of the smell.

 

[Sunshine95]

I promise I will, but I have to sort it out first so it makes sense, even to me. I am not very good at all this, and I don't even know how to provide links yet so it makes it hard for me to figure out how to just write something out. Did that make any sense at all? LOL! One of the first things I did do was take all the major times on the timeline and add them all up, then I subtracted the times given by each witness that had nothing to back up their statements, their side of the events, and to me it left plenty of time for a particular person to drive back to Tempe. an d he had the worst alibi of anyone IMOO . I in no way mean anything bad towards Adrienne and on several occasions have done the same thing making a hundred calls to a bf, but with the high drama that night I'm starting to think hers may have snapped. this is JMO. And one more thing for now, when I looked at the timeline in a different way, I also think whatever happened to A, happened earlier than 5am, and some things make a lot more sense with an earlier start, after all we are going on the times given by a group of kids that were doing some pretty hard partying that night. I may have been able at those times in my life to give some details of an evenings events but very doubtful on times or time frames.

Please share!!! I would LOVE to see what you came up with!!!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Skylar Neese.
And I saw an ad for a new show about people killing their BFFs...

And I have been very very curious about the boy with the crush, too! Either your theory, or that he observed more than what we know. When I was young with a crush, I watched closely and picked up on very subtle exchanges and responses... I wish we could talk to him... anyone know anything more about him? Am I allowed to ask? Sorry if I am not! Just want to know what he saw that night~

Editing to add: Read the article posted upthread which said that she attended a birthday party the night she went missing. (Sorry still trying to get the quote thing right) I've never said someone attended a party when it was their party, at their home! Could be reporting to blame, but could it be that she was at another party that night? Before or instead?

No, Adrienne's dad is quoted as saying that A had been at a birthday party the night/morning she disappeared. His remark is in the article that came out today. By reading it, you'd never know she was at her own apartment as we know that's where the party took place (that A was at anyway). Up until I read today's article, I assumed the group had been partying all weekend for no special reason.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BBM
I know about the venomous snakes in Arizona and spiders, and anything I don't know I asked my old buddy from kindergarten who went on to get several doctorates in herpetology. I actually put out snake traps for him every summer on our properties in his search for the elusive Arizona Milk Snake. We also swap birds occasionally, I got a smokin' deal trading him 9 Sebastopal geese for a pair of mute swans!
So, I'm looking at this crime as a sudden opportunity, not planned, so pre-planning the dig I haven't factored. To do it quickly, if it was done within 24 hours after the disappearance, 2 people could spend 20-30 minutes and have something sufficient at a depth of 4 feet. That time of the year, the sand is going to be dry for the first feet or so, it gets a bit heavier as you dig deeper. (lightly damp sand vs Dry sand, if you ever had to shovel it). That's also factoring a temp that ranged from 79-106 degrees in a 24 hour time period with partly cloudy skies, low humidity. A solitary person digging would take 45 mins to an hour and that would be early morning, around 3-4:00 am, the temp would be around 82-84, but the lack of sun would help their body from becoming over heated.
When you have flash floods, ANYTHING is possible as far as what is contained in the water. Some of those out buildings could have come several miles up stream. I saw a few "pump houses" close to the dry wash. These are small house that contain the "well head" and "Pressure tanks" when you have a well. There is usually water under the dry wash, so it is common practice to drill your well close to the washes to hit the water table or these under ground rivers below the washes. Some of the buildings could have been chicken or pigeon houses, this is a rural kind of area where the parcels allow for livestock and domestic animals so you'll see small outbuilding all over. Whether they were in use or not, many people in rural areas hold on to things and you never know when you might get more poultry. As far as putting a body in one, the predators down there would have found a way to get in. Bobcats and coyotes can be very industrious when it come to wood, wire and rock barriers. And the vultures and buzzards would have perched on the top of the buildings, to say nothing of the smell.

Omg Bernina. What if she had originally been thrown into a well? Is that possible. Could a body emerge from within a well? What's amazing too is that it sounds as if the body was found intact. At least to some degree.
Are there unused wells around there? Would they contain water? Because wouldn't that preserve a body to some degree? Considering the remains attracted vultures.

 

[DocBrew]

I believe its very possible that there were plenty of verifiable records or data for LE to verify his where abouts and like to remember that Tom Jr's home was searched, he was questioned and they took DNA. Tom SR reminded us that this was all voluntary and out of concern for Adrienne's well being. Tom Jr. wanted to clear his name and his fathers company. The whole fact that LE searched his home, took DNA was quite shocking and rattled me even more when considering the timeline. So many of us here follow many cases and are quick to judge and follow LE's words and action as gospel. We learn to read between the lines and predict from experience what we think it all means.

My understanding from cab guy's early posts when I was reading the older threads is that a search warrant was issued and executed. That's not exactly voluntary, in my opinion. Also, I don't believe for a second that he was cleared cleared, but rather was publicly 'cleared' due to outside pressure. Cab guy also stated that the cabbie retained an attorney very early on if not imediately. While this is no indication of guilt by any means, the police may have felt pressure to back off a bit.

But soon there was a campaign to hush all that talk of cabbie. I would do the same thing for my company.

He put his company in the spotlight by going on a media campaign. No one sleuthed it. No one had to.

I would hope that you wouldn't go on a media campaign for your company if there was the possibility that one of your employees was involved in a disappearance. I would hope you would rather stand by and cooperate as need be. At least, that's how I would've handled it. A PR campaign is strange, especially when it seems more like a clever diversion more than anything else.

My point is that IMO LE is playing smoke and mirrors here, or cat and mouse because from early on LE recognized what they are up against. This is a very complicated group of characters with an incredible timeline. I so far have to say Tempe LE is an experienced on the ball force. I really am impressed.

I too am impressed with LE, and I too feel that it is only a matter of time. I think they have a pretty good idea who did this, and have been building their case accordingly.

[

 

[Bernina]

I can't quite clear cab driver in my mind, only because LE put him back into the mix once she was found, and this was after investigating him pretty throughly and basically "clearing" him. So why put him back into the pool of suspects? Same with the boyfriend, only there does not seem to be any evidence putting him back in touch or near Adrienne after she left his car. What I fear is that LE put everyone back into the mix due to lack of evidence in general. JMO

With the remains, they might be able to get more of a timeline, they would have soil samples to compare, maybe something as simple as fibers in her hair, foreign to that area. If she was assaulted, god forbid, with the current strides in DNA science, just maybe there might be something that connects? They've got incredible resources for local weather data there, and I saw mention of an anthropologist on the team.
And the cause of death: That could bring several things into play. Do they have duct tape, rope, some other binding material? Evidence of a knife or gun being used? Could any of the injuries point to a left or right handed person? Broken knife tip or metal fragments embedded in bone, a possible pattern of a blunt object captured in a fracture. Any of this could bear out a warrant for specific objects or possible evidence.
Think of all the thing scientist have done with mummies in the past decade.
I really hope the team there at the ME's can give information to point the LE in a direction. I just hope it's someone on their radar and not a random individual.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I find it fascinating how manipulating one can be to make people believe they had nothing to do with something. I feel the two can create an alibi for each other and that's why everything "fits" to some people. Criminal minds never die nor does repeated offenses and prison time make you an outstanding citizen. My opinion

Whatever you're saying I agree without knowing the specifics.
The plot thickens.

Except I don't agree that prison time makes anybody an outstanding citizen. Far from it but I'd have to know about one's circumstances too. Repeated offenses are a bad sign.

 

[cluciano63]

With the remains, they might be able to get more of a timeline, they would have soil samples to compare, maybe something as simple as fibers in her hair, foreign to that area. If she was assaulted, god forbid, with the current strides in DNA science, just maybe there might be something that connects? They've got incredible resources for local weather data there, and I saw mention of an anthropologist on the team.
And the cause of death: That could bring several things into play. Do they have duct tape, rope, some other binding material? Evidence of a knife or gun being used? Could any of the injuries point to a left or right handed person? Broken knife tip or metal fragments embedded in bone, a possible pattern of a blunt object captured in a fracture. Any of this could bear out a warrant for specific objects or possible evidence.
Think of all the thing scientist have done with mummies in the past decade.
I really hope the team there at the ME's can give information to point the LE in a direction. I just hope it's someone on their radar and not a random individual.

It sounds like they don't have have much at all to work with, though. I think it unlikely any fibers, etc. would have survived and I am not even sure they have all of her body. Sounds like they are unable to determine cause of death, in the most recent article posted today. Mummies, for example, hold evidence in, but a body that has been passing through water for two months...well, I don't know. JMO.

Actually, I am beginning to hope that this was a "plot" and cover-up by her friends-acquaintances, as that may give LE their best chance of solving the case, vs. a random stranger with nothing to go on. At least they can interview and re-investigate the known, but it is much harder to work with the unknown. JMO

 

[imamaze]

We do not discuss other members, time outs or moderation on the board.

:tyou:

 

[Seajay]

Hi all, just checking in. I haven't been around much lately, I had a death in the family last week so I've been spending most of my time with my loved ones.

I'm very sad to find that there's not really much more information about potential suspects. I really hoped justice would be served quickly once Adrienne was found.

My thoughts are with her friends and family, I hope they find the answers they need very soon.

Keep up the great work, sleuths. :grouphug:

Sorry for your loss PH. I was wondering where you were. Glad to see you back.

 

[Seajay]

I know we can't sleuth a particular person but I'm interested in the other young man who is said to have had a crush on Adrienne. He may be an upstanding great guy or he may have been a drunk horny cad that went too far and things got out of hand.

As far as the bf is concerned, it's hard to imagine that someone that was AS's friend since 6th grade would end up killing her. I know when romantic love enters the picture, the plot thickens - but still. I wonder why, if he wanted space, he continued to come around. Why not stay in Scottsdale then? Does bf know AS's father well? Did AS know his mother?

In an article I read today, AS's dad said that AS had been at a birthday party her last night. We know she was at her own apartment. Whose birthday was it? I'd not heard that before.

BBM: Good question. I just read that myself. It's news to me. All this time it's been a party, not a birthday party. As you asked, whose birthday was it???

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Adrienne Salinas had been reported missing by her father, Rick Salinas, on June 15, and police knew something was amiss when she didn’t call him or visit him on Father’s Day. Adrienne had attended a birthday party the night before and argued with her boyfriend before she vanished early that morning.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...earching-more-clues-death-year-old-woman.html

 

[Bernina]

I keep coming back to what is reported to LE and what is fact. We keep creating theories based on statements made by people to LE, myself included, but what if some/ all of them are not true statements?
Still wondering if there has been anything other than a person or two's statements that she came back after the wreck has been corroborated- and no one saw her? Doesn't sit right with me.
What do we KNOW, excluding the recollection or explanation of others? Should we strip it down to the bare bones and examine it excluding the subjective statements of others?
If so, can you help me do that? I know earlier there were some great timelines and summaries created...
And we could say, "a call from Adrienne's phone" was made, based on bf's phone evidence shown to LE instead of "Adrienne called" since we can't prove it was her on the other side...
Been also thinking about the multiple calls made to bf- could it be that someone else decided to "call him a bunch of times" to make it look like she was calling him, and so that person kept hitting the send button.... which could maybe explain the over doing it instead of her being in hysterics?
Also, re the pregnancy question... maybe if she was pregnant, it was the father who had a hard time with it, not her. JUST A THEORY not saying it is a fact or anything like that! But that's what I first thought of when the idea was brought up- a former student of mine was murdered, was pregnant, and although it has yet to be solved, the consensus is that the father of the baby did it...
Oh, and Bernina, I took notes on the water survival tip- thank you!
ALL JUST MY OPINION :twocents:

That's exactly why you see "Occam's Razor" here and there, throughout this case. What is the simplest line of reasoning? Without justifications, self serving statements, explanations, etc. Who's statements need some major explaining?Take away all the theories, scenarios, what if's.
Just the black and white on the LE Report and then throw in what is coming straight out of LE's mouth about the AMPM situation and the last calls from Adrienne's phone that LE confirmed.
Who had opportunity, means, and motive?
It leads you straight to the original 2 POI's (1 more strongly than the other) and a random abduction.
"Keep it simple".
And then our "computer brain" kicks in and we go to all these convoluted places. :facepalm: We are doomed as the Generation who watches too much CSI, ID, Dateline, 48 Hours, and BIO. :scared: