AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #7

[SandSage]

Reminds me of this pic:

View attachment 36636

From Crown King. https://www.facebook.com/adrienne.s....397531216972212.87653.100001460100891&type=3

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Her little pigtails and hiking bag.

I'm so mad.

 

[margarita25]

<o/t, well so much for logging off, just saw Dylan's new thread re: MR's house being searched. Yikes~! Will attempt to read it crosseyed!>

 

[Public_Hysteria]

Is it a fact that there was another woman? I know A thought he was not paying enough attention to her...but could he have talking football with the guys? I mean, do we KNOW it was another woman or is this an assumption?

I think this was an assumption. IIRC, the only information we had was that she was upset that her boy wasn't paying enough attention to her... it was never specified WHO he was paying that attention to. It could have been another girl, or he could have been too wrapped up talking to his male friends.

Do you think she could have been covered with rocks? That happens often in the desert as well.

I think it's possible. IMO she was either covered over with rocks or buried in a shallow grave. I don't believe she was placed in a body of water, I think she just ended up there due to the flooding.

*sigh* I hate discussing all of this. For me, it's always harder once a body has been found, it takes away even the slightest bit of hope that I might have been holding on to. It just isn't fair. Poor Adrienne.

 

[Arione]

My heart feels like it will break when I look at the photos of her. So sweet and just starting her life.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Thanks public_hysteria. Ya know, I think you helped change my theory on this.

After hearing all
The theories here...I think that she probably was unearthed almost exactly where she had been left. I think rocks had been put over her body and she was under that treed area in a very shallow grave.

I think the perp probably waited until later that day once nightfall hit to bury the body.

For some reason all too often I see bodies found by trees.

Alright it's late. Night loves. Justice for Adrienne (and Fabian Cano!)

 

[alreetlike]

So, I agree with what has been posted so far that the perp knew about this area, FWIW.

What was he doing in Tempe between 4 and 5 am.

Could he have been getting off a night shift of some sort (thinking out loud).

This post reminded me of Jessica Heeringa.

Is it a fact that there was another woman? I know A thought he was not paying enough attention to her...but could he have talking football with the guys? I mean, do we KNOW it was another woman or is this an assumption?

I think we basically all assumed it was another woman. Good thinking though, I hadn't considered that but it's certainly possible.

Last thing...Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Phoenix, in the circle / triangle when expanded...also south to include mesa, chandler...
<brain is fading, ugh....will pick up here tomorrow)

Oh, and also before my brain completely goes, my begin at an attempt to profile Adrienne's killer begins with this, just a brainstorm sketch after being on this thread today:

Lives within an hour from Apache Junction. Might gamble. Knows the area. Works in Tempe during the night hours. May have an estranged daughter, my have abused her...(Who kills someone on Father's Day?---Maybe the perp even has a disfunctional relationship with his own father, or a history of abuse by his own father??)...may have ties to the Phoenix or Scottsdale areas...(of course assuming it isn't George or gang members).

....and the lights get darker and darker, gone! Poof, there goes my brain!


Mine sounds like a wine post, but unfortunately its not... there's no wine here, wish there was though!


<edit:> Everything is JMO!

BBM. My boyfriend's dad is deceased and he never knows or remembers when Father's Day is. Maybe *whoever* wasn't even aware of the significance.

But then again I don't particularly think that.

 

[prospektor]

Hey, where did SandSage's rant go? I wanted to chime in and complain that "FTW" no longer means "F*** the world", but "for the win". Pathetic!

As for Adrienne being buried, I can see a (very) shallow grave, but covering her with stones? It would take too long and be too exhausting, you need quite an amount of stones for that. I also think the perp got rid of the body right away and did not wait for the next night. I wouldn't want to drive around with a decomposing body in my trunk in the summer heat. I think he drove towards an area he was familiar with (Lost Dutchman State Park), but dropped her somewhere on the way, at the first spot that was halfway remote, to the right side of the street, before Weeke's Wash crossed Highway 88. That burned down house roughly half a mile after the intersection 88/Lost Dutchman seems like a good spot, if Google Maps is up to date.

 

[GGE]

June 14 is Flag Day, I want to know who kidnaps somebody on Flag Day.

June 16 is Father's Day.

June 15 is nothing but the day Adrienne disappeared.

 

[Sunshine95]

BBM

You're not the only one, but you had rescue workers there and "lookey loos", reporters, LE, and the following day when they dug and towed it out, more reporters and a bunch of their friends. The smell would have been noted by many on either day. JMO

Go back on the thread and find my post on burying things in the desert and what happens, think it's about 2-3 pages back. That will help you understand what the climate here does. That's from my perspective living around livestock most of my life.

So does that mean that is wasn't that flood that washed her all the way down there? Was there a flood after that which would complete her journey?

 

[Sunshine95]

Just a different scenario to think about, all hypothetical...
BF was too busy doing coke, playing drinking games, acting like a jack a** not paying attention to a particular girl but maybe trying to act like a gangsta or something...
Party goers want to re-up on drugs, contact supplier, some shady folks roll into the party (prob gangstas) and start to party with them. Kids think they are great cause they have the goods. Adrienne feels uncomfortable, everyone tells her to chill out and stop being a party pooper... The whole scene changes and becomes more sexualized, objectifying, showing out...
FINALLY she convinces her bf to leave and take her with him, she wants to get away from these people. Maybe he invites one of the sketchy back to his place, maybe there is already someone sketchy at his place with his roommate.
If she did cocaine, meth, or a number of other uppers, I can see making that many calls and "tweaking" out.
Back at bf house, she freaks out, someone reacts to that, uses more force than intended...
or when she comes back to party, someone there who is used to taking whatever he wants decided to take her, etc...
I can easily see an accident being covered up if the person(s) involved is afraid of the police, like a gang member, drug dealer, etc...
ALL MY OPINION

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I can see a murder happening and being covered up as an accident... Except a witness saw and called 911.

Second plan? Call someone from Adrienne's phone to set up the idea she was still Alive after the wreck.

Third plan?
Call a cab and maybe he will take the rap for her "disappearance".

Fin. IMHO.

IMHO

 

[Karmady]

How about convenience stores, auto parts stores, even newspaper boxes on the main highway? Places that have regular deliveries? Where are those located, if there? I'm thinking perhaps someone that doesn't actually live in AJ, but travels through often enough, maybe even a route that follows that loop on 2Hip's map. Someone that would be in and out of such a place, especially stopping in a convenience store regularly for coffee or snacks, would be aware of the area A was found and/or possibly left and how it's used. Then I wonder: would that person drive a car or a 2 or 3 axle delivery truck?
just exploring some possibilities. what we really want to do now is help find this monster.
imho

If by main highway you mean the 60, sure there's lots of business that would take deliveries off the exit ramps. Fewer and fewer as you get out toward AJ, though. Iirc, there's at least one or two McD's or similar with associated gas stations just at or after the 60 turns south and becomes a road. After that, there's very few commercial establishments of the chain variety. I googled and there are at least two circle k's in apache junction, for example, but none in Gold Canyon which is after the southbound turn of the 60. The next one is in Florence. Which is after you start turning back west, but quite a way further south.

eta: I should have said "start turning back West" not East. To get to Florence you start turning back west toward Phoenix/Tempe, but still quite a ways south of there. Fixed it.

 

[Bernina]

So does that mean that is wasn't that flood that washed her all the way down there? Was there a flood after that which would complete her journey?

*Somewhat Graphic*

That was in response to GGE's thought that maybe the guys in the Blazer/Bronco were dumping the remains when they got stuck in the flood. That thought hit some of us but just momentarily.
You have to understand the desert, the climate changes, the terrain in that area, soil composition, and what it does to a body.
The area around there is rocky, except in the dried out washes. Those are sand, and the sand can go down MANY feet. It's the easiest and fastest place to dig.
Burying remains in the sand, in June, the hottest and driest month in Arizona, (temps upwards of 120 degrees in hot years, 7-12% humidity) causes the body to mummify. It's like drying flowers. The odor is not pungent after rising to the surface through several feet of sand.
Monsoon season "officially" starts mid June by the weather people's standard, but if you've lived here for a few years, it's pretty standard for the storms to start around the 4th of July.
Now, throw in a bigger than normal flash flood running down Weeks wash, the sand is going to shift, and the partially mummified remains are going to move up to the surface. The lungs and other parts of the body still have captured gases that make it buoyant and sand is heavier.
Surface water is usually far calmer than the water below. Flash floods have an undercurrent that is faster than the surface water. That's why it's pretty stupid to stand in a flash flood. 1. The undertow, and 2. You don't have a clue about what may be 6 inches below the surface, scorpions, snakes, garbage, uprooted vegetation....
More than likely, the remains were unearthed during this flood. Because we can assume it was in a partially mummified state, re-hydration would have taken longer, bacteria growth causing an odor would have taken longer, that in turn would attract raptors and predators to the remains. If left untouched, it would take even longer for an apparent odor to be noticed by human beings.

Not to be crude, but it's the difference between beef jerky and a raw steak. Put a steak several feet down in the sand of a wash in June in Arizona, it becomes the consistency of beef jerky after a few weeks. Add water and the beef jerky is going to float up through the sand, with or without a current. It might take a week or more, with high humidity and temps to cause bacteria to develop, which causes an odor.
It does NOT work the same in other areas, like Florida, which has a higher humidity all through the summer....and I will let you get your own graphic on that. JMO

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

*Somewhat Graphic*

That was in response to GGE's thought that maybe the guys in the Blazer/Bronco were dumping the remains when they got stuck in the flood. That thought hit some of us but just momentarily.
You have to understand the desert, the climate changes, the terrain in that area, soil composition, and what it does to a body.
The area around there is rocky, except in the dried out washes. Those are sand, and the sand can go down MANY feet. It's the easiest and fastest place to dig.
Burying remains in the sand, in June, the hottest and driest month in Arizona, (temps upwards of 120 degrees in hot years, 7-12% humidity) causes the body to mummify. It's like drying flowers. The odor is not pungent after rising to the surface through several feet of sand.
Monsoon season "officially" starts mid June by the weather people's standard, but if you've lived here for a few years, it's pretty standard for the storms to start around the 4th of July.
Now, throw in a bigger than normal flash flood running down Weeks wash, the sand is going to shift, and the partially mummified remains are going to move up to the surface. The lungs and other parts of the body still have captured gases that make it buoyant and sand is heavier.
Surface water is usually far calmer than the water below. Flash floods have an undercurrent that is faster than the surface water. That's why it's pretty stupid to stand in a flash flood. 1. The undertow, and 2. You don't have a clue about what may be 6 inches below the surface, scorpions, snakes, garbage, uprooted vegetation....
More than likely, the remains were unearthed during this flood. Because we can assume it was in a partially mummified state, re-hydration would have taken longer, bacteria growth causing an odor would have taken longer, that in turn would attract raptors and predators to the remains. If left untouched, it would take even longer for an apparent odor to be noticed by human beings.

Not to be crude, but it's the difference between beef jerky and a raw steak. Put a steak several feet down in the sand of a wash in June in Arizona, it becomes the consistency of beef jerky after a few weeks. Add water and the beef jerky is going to float up through the sand, with or without a current. It might take a week or more, with high humidity and temps to cause bacteria to develop, which causes an odor.
It does NOT work the same in other areas, like Florida, which has a higher humidity all through the summer....and I will let you get your own graphic on that. JMO

Were her remains intact or were they scattered? (sorry it just would help me understand what might have happened...)

And I agree that the outer tissue would become dry while the inner tissues would be the only tissues to retain some moisture if any. This must be what attracted the vultures... It makes more sense now.

Thanks Bernina

(p.s. the fact you compared it to drying flowers for me is eerie... A personal thing I'll share with you if I didn't already)

 

[Karmady]

*Somewhat Graphic*

That was in response to GGE's thought that maybe the guys in the Blazer/Bronco were dumping the remains when they got stuck in the flood. That thought hit some of us but just momentarily.
You have to understand the desert, the climate changes, the terrain in that area, soil composition, and what it does to a body.
The area around there is rocky, except in the dried out washes. Those are sand, and the sand can go down MANY feet. It's the easiest and fastest place to dig.
Burying remains in the sand, in June, the hottest and driest month in Arizona, (temps upwards of 120 degrees in hot years, 7-12% humidity) causes the body to mummify. It's like drying flowers. The odor is not pungent after rising to the surface through several feet of sand.
Monsoon season "officially" starts mid June by the weather people's standard, but if you've lived here for a few years, it's pretty standard for the storms to start around the 4th of July.
Now, throw in a bigger than normal flash flood running down Weeks wash, the sand is going to shift, and the partially mummified remains are going to move up to the surface. The lungs and other parts of the body still have captured gases that make it buoyant and sand is heavier.
Surface water is usually far calmer than the water below. Flash floods have an undercurrent that is faster than the surface water. That's why it's pretty stupid to stand in a flash flood. 1. The undertow, and 2. You don't have a clue about what may be 6 inches below the surface, scorpions, snakes, garbage, uprooted vegetation....
More than likely, the remains were unearthed during this flood. Because we can assume it was in a partially mummified state, re-hydration would have taken longer, bacteria growth causing an odor would have taken longer, that in turn would attract raptors and predators to the remains. If left untouched, it would take even longer for an apparent odor to be noticed by human beings.

Not to be crude, but it's the difference between beef jerky and a raw steak. Put a steak several feet down in the sand of a wash in June in Arizona, it becomes the consistency of beef jerky after a few weeks. Add water and the beef jerky is going to float up through the sand, with or without a current. It might take a week or more, with high humidity and temps to cause bacteria to develop, which causes an odor.
It does NOT work the same in other areas, like Florida, which has a higher humidity all through the summer....and I will let you get your own graphic on that. JMO

and it was REALLY, REALLY hot here just after she disappeared. On June 29the temp reading on the display in my car got up to 122!!! I'm positive because I took a pic of it on my phone. I think there were several days in a row where the temps were 115 and well above.

 

[cluciano63]

My belief is that not all of Adrienne's body was found or that the bones had separated, i.e Dylan Redwine. Water can do a tremendous amount of damage to a body in two months, especially if combined with high pressure at times during storms. I think that is partly why they continued to search so intently, not so much for clothing or shoes as for any additional bones. JMO

 

[Bernina]

I think some of you are getting confused about the lay of the land down there:
If you go West or North of Tempe, you have miles and miles of developments, shopping centers, businesses, etc, etc. Of course you have South Mountain to the West, but you'd have to drive surface streets in a very, very sketchy part of town.
If you go South, you have the presence of MSCO and the Border Patrol, and then the Pinal County Sheriff's Officers at the county line. You can easily run into one of them every mile in some places. I kid you not. Not a very bright idea for a perp. This includes areas like Florence (where the State Prison is, not a good idea). Anything South of Tempe is watched because it is part of the drug trafficking, illegal immigrant corridor.
If you go East, it's straight out to no where in a very short time.

Another thing to consider: Of all the businesses out there on that edge of AJ, how many are going to have deliveries on a SATURDAY? How many are even going to be open? Unless it's a franchise, your local mom and pop businesses might be taking a 2 day weekend for Father's day or they just might not be open on Saturdays, ever. Was the Post Office taking a 3 day weekend for Flag Day on Friday? And do the residence in the area of the remains actually have mail delivery or do they have to go to the post office? Check off UPS. Utility trucks aren't out. And you're not going to have random tourists driving through just to go "site seeing".
This was a hot, partly cloudy day in the rural, thinly spread, northeastern edge of town, the day before a holiday. There is not going to be a lot of activity going on after 9-10:00 in the morning. People are going to be inside with the air conditioning cranked up or in the pool if they have one. The 2 closest places to go to get some relief from the heat and not get wet are Prescott and Payson. And for Payson, you'd take the 87 to get there faster, not the 88 to 188.
JMO

If I was the perp, the best place for a dump site out of Tempe is exactly where he went. He knows the general Phoenix metropolitan area and the surrounding cities. Because he didn't use a dumping site at South Mountain, I'd have to say he is white, 25-35 (placing it more on the 30+ side) and middle class. Because he DID use that edge of AJ, he may have or have access to a 4 x 4. NOT married. Works at night. JMO

 

[margarita25]

June 14 is Flag Day, I want to know who kidnaps somebody on Flag Day.

June 16 is Father's Day.

June 15 is nothing but the day Adrienne disappeared.

Could be...

However, I know a lot of fathers (friends of mine) who get pretty excited about Father's Day. Adrienne's own dad knew something was wrong when she didn't contact him on Father's Day. I think Father's Day might hold more significance to a parent than "Flag Day". JMO.

Its all speculation here. I have no idea if Father's Day meant anything to the perp(s) or not. Worth noting either way, JMO.

 

[margarita25]

Oops gotta fix one thing!

Here's my stupid azz map.

Is that Dark Side of the Moon? Or Area 51? :biggrin:

(Kidding, I love it, it is awesome! Thanks again HIP!>