AZ AZ - Chelsea Grimm, 32, traveling from San Diego CA to CT, car found Oct 5 on Forest Rd 6 near Williams, she was last seen in Williams, 28 Sep 2023

[nao]

Moo..I googled bearded dragons wild Arizona. Seems they pretty tough. There are beardies that live wild in southern states.(and Colorado apparently?) Australia does have a winter season and it does get cold. So the dragon does have a chance of survival even if it goes into brumination....moo

 

[BaffleMe]

So, to recap. She's seen first in Seligman, which is WEST of Ash Fork. That's the night after she sees her friend in Phoenix and Seligman is on the way back home (west). Sept 27th.

Next time she's seen, she's moving further EAST and is in Williams (LE bodycam footage). Williams is nearer to Grand Canyon and Flagstaff. It's a larger town than Ash Fork. That's on the 28th. So returning to the idea of heading east.

On the 30th (so two days later) her car is spotted north of Ash Fork. Which is WEST of Williams - so back toward home again. She speaks to a woodcutter (who came forward and gave info to LE AFAIK).

These movements are confusing and shows either a confused or indecisive person. Where is she sleeping during these nights? Car camping? What happens between the 28th and the 30th??

Thanks for this. I was confused by her movements

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

We are all confused about her movements, if we are trying to make a logical scenario given what's been reported. It's not an easy area, not sure how else to say it. Terrain wise, people wise. And getting too cold to sleep outside.

 

[shetalksinstereo]

I think so too! Here I thought this certification was a fairly new career path.

Maybe it's like a temporary certification and not for multi-year?

 

[Babylon Sister]

Maybe it's like a temporary certification and not for multi-year?

Looks like California has 2 year renewal for licensed social workers. California Social Work License Renewal.

 

[10ofRods]

Thanks for this. I was confused by her movements

Her movements are confusing. It takes one day to get from SD to Phoenix, max (IMO). Nothing to see on the route she took.

She takes 3 days. Then goes west, then east again.

I

 

[10ofRods]

Looks like California has 2 year renewal for licensed social workers. California Social Work License Renewal.

Yep, I think they have to submit their CTE hours every two years at that level of social work.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Her movements are confusing. It takes one day to get from SD to Phoenix, max (IMO). Nothing to see on the route she took.

She takes 3 days. Then goes west, then east again.

I

Yeah; it sounds like she may have been conflicted about whether she wanted to go or not.
OTOH, maybe she just had a bad sense of direction and got turned around direction-wise, which led to her feeling she should press on, but simultaneously unprepared to do so.

 

[Gobstopper]

Is this correct? No one saw her in the area where her vehicle was found? No one saw her and also her vehicle with flat tires at the same time?

 

[10ofRods]

Yeah; it sounds like she may have been conflicted about whether she wanted to go or not.
OTOH, maybe she just had a bad sense of direction and got turned around direction-wise, which led to her feeling she should press on, but simultaneously unprepared to do so.

What's odd though, is that she has screen shots on Day 1 of her highly functional GPS - and she's following it. It would have been working still, I'd think, throughout her trip.

IMO.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

What's odd though, is that she has screen shots on Day 1 of her highly functional GPS - and she's following it. It would have been working still, I'd think, throughout her trip.

IMO.

Hmmm...I don't think it very likely that GPS would've sent her so far astray, but I do think it's possible. Old maps, bad input, or simply being in an area where it couldn't get a good signal might've contributed to the issue.
Heck, my computer hasn't moved in 25 years, but for some reason when I login to a particular online store, it always thinks I'm in another zip code from where I am, no matter how many times I update it. I don't know why.

 

[10ofRods]

Is this correct? No one saw her in the area where her vehicle was found? No one saw her and also her vehicle with flat tires at the same time?

Woodcutter saw her, IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Hmmm...I don't think it very likely that GPS would've sent her so far astray, but I do think it's possible. Old maps, bad input, or simply being in an area where it couldn't get a good signal might've contributed to the issue.
Heck, my computer hasn't moved in 25 years, but for some reason when I login to a particular online store, it always thinks I'm in another zip code from where I am, no matter how many times I update it. I don't know why.

What do you mean by "so far astray"? She's using her GPS to get from San Diego towards Phoenix - and gets there. So she knows how to use it and it's working and she takes pictures of GPS is telling her to do (perhaps 5 hours out of San Diego).

Her GPS clearly shows the route to Phoenix, I worried that she'd miss a turn off, but she doesn't - she gets to Phoenix.

She then goes onward - but to where? East or west? She tells parents not "east" but going to camp somewhere (in Arizona? Seems likely).

She was using her smart car GPS that is presenting real time data as she travels, IMO. GPS continues to work even without cell service - although obviously, there can be glitches.

How do you think she went "so far astray"? To me she looks like a tourist or traveler who can't quite decide what to do once in Arizona (and apparently does NOT head to GC).

She was just a few miles from one of the major interstates in the US and was going back and forth on it. If she didn't know which direction was east or west, then that's a major cognitive impairment for a traveler. Both her own sense of direction AND her GPS would have told her whether she was going east or west (unless she was impaired - in which case, she really did need help). THe people posting about her on FB (three different FB's at least) were concerned as well.

Computers in today's cars are able to guide people to major destinations - and Chelsea DID make it from San Diego to Phoenix - whereupon she can't decide whether to go east/west OR is impaired enough to no longer know what those words mean. Her parents seem to be offering some help - but really, if she was prone to such confusion, it was either new (acute and parents couldn't have anticipated it) or it was not new and parents were trying to deal with it from afar - when she was actually stuck in a locale situation.

Personally, I would hope that if you can't figure out east/west/north/south on your own (without computer or phone) you would not be attempting a cross country trip unless you really trusted your car GPS. Is this a factor in recent missing persons' cases? (depending on GPS but not actually understanding their route?)

Even so, has GPS ever taken someone in the opposite direction of where they want to go...on a major interstate?

I'm truly curious.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

What do you mean by "so far astray"? She's using her GPS to get from San Diego towards Phoenix - and gets there.

IIRC, she told her parents she had changed her mind and was returning home. Ash Fork is a l-o-n-g way from San Diego.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Even so, has GPS ever taken someone in the opposite direction of where they want to go...on a major interstate?

Hopefully this link is good here. If it's removed you may IM me for it.

Could GPS devices be leading people to drive the wrong-way?

With the latest wrong-way crash on Wednesday, there have been nearly 30 incidents so far this year. Many drivers in the Valley have speculated why Arizona is such a problem area for this type of dangerous driving behavior.

www.abc15.com

I've heard of other instances, but don't have any MSM links, nor do I remember any of the details well enough to find them searching.

 

[tarabull]

Re: maps...fwiw

Hiker rescued off B.C. cliffside after taking non-existent Google Maps trail

North Shore SAR says no path exists from Mount Fromme to Kennedy Falls

www.nelsonstar.com

 

[tarabull]

Chelsea Grimm Timeline
(Using US date format)
CCS - Coconino County Sheriff

09/24/2023 CG leaves her home in San Diego to travel to a wedding in Connecticut [12news]

09/27/2023 last known contact with CG in Phoenix Arizona [CCS updates] CG meets friend for lunch in Phoenix [CBS8]

09/27/2023 CG calls her parents from AZ and says she isn’t going to make it in time for the wedding and will stop and camp for a couple of days in Arizona instead. [12news]

“She said 'I think what I'm going to do is just take a couple of days and camp. And I'll get back to you. Please don't expect to hear from me for a couple of days,'" Janet Grimm said. [12news]

09/28/2023 CG cancels lunch plans with the same friend she’d met the day before [CBS8]

09/28/2023 (no time available) CG reported to be disoriented when she tried to book a motel room in Seligman AZ and tried to “exchange Euros as opposed to US currency” [CBS8]

09/28/2023 (no time available) CG speaks to a Williams resident in their driveway [CBS8]

09/28/2023 20:40 time on bodycam video. LE respond to a call about “suspicious activity at the Williams Cemetery” and finds CG in her car with a bearded dragon. She told him she was emotional after taking photos of veterans graves. He smells marijuana and asks if she’s been smoking, and she says she did a few hours before. Officer says he didn’t feel she was disoriented and leaves her there. [CBS8]

“Driscoll says her phone and credit card activity also stopped” - the reports suggest but don’t specifically say this happened on or around 28th. TBC.

09/30/2023 12:00 noon. A woodcutter spots CG’s car on “that dirt road” [Forest Rd 6] and stopped to talk to her “where she was in a nearby field” She said she was fine, didn’t need help and was out taking photographs. [CBS8]

10/04/2023 CG is reported missing to Phoenix Police by her parents. [CCS updates]

10/05/2023 her vehicle, a white Ford Escape is located by hunters on Kaibab National Forest Road 6 northeast of Ashfork [CCS updates]
“On October 5th, hunters northeast of Ash Fork, Arizona in the Kaibab National Forest reported a suspicious white 2019 Ford Escape with two flat tires parked on a forest service road. They had noticed it two days prior on their journey in, and were surprised to see it still sitting there.” [12news]


Refs

• San Diego woman missing last seen in Flagstaff, Arizona | cbs8.com
• 'We can't wait to get our baby girl back': Woman on cross-country road trip goes missing in Arizona, family asks public for help
• https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid036rYsAtzHS3v1iEWi1QycguPmq5kaUwY13nR1CgNtcnqyGGybTpP62wmTQPBYVD1Dl&id=100064532596455
• https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02Sz1QFseJyePPychtonQEsQBtzmY1hkgKuMNibn2Vjzzq6PAdxXopBcMLPZJsSWh7l&id=100064532596455

BUMP!!!!!

 

[Red Clover]

The James and Kati Kim family tragedy occurred because GPS routed them onto a road that was impassable in the winter

'20/20' Exclusive: Kati Kim on Her Family's Harrowing Ordeal

When the Kim family vanished in the snowy Oregon mountains, the story captivated the nation. Now, for the first time on television, Kati Kim tells her harrowing story in an exclusive "20/20" interview.

abcnews.go.com

After nine days, the Kims' car was spotted from the air. But for the family that had captivated the nation, it was no happy ending.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6602542

They were driving home from Thanksgiving in Seattle, and missed a turn when snow began to fall; and their car got stuck.

The logging road they turned down should be blocked off by a gate in November, because it's considered hazardous in winter. But authorities said yesterday that vandals apparently cut the lock; and the gate was open.

For a week, the Kims huddled and ate berries, baby food and crackers. After a few days, they had to burn their tires to keep warm, and to try to attract attention. When they ran out of food, Kati Kim, who is still nursing their baby, breast-fed 4-year-old Penelope, too.
[...]
So after a week stuck in the wilderness, and no sign of rescue, James Kim decided that a father has to do whatever he can to save his family -- or die trying. He struck out to try to find help. Hungry, weak, and wearing only street clothes, James Kim, a city boy from San Francisco, walked and crawled for ten miles over sharp ledges, through bristling forests and swam through freezing creek waters.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Hopefully this link is good here. If it's removed you may IM me for it.

Could GPS devices be leading people to drive the wrong-way?

With the latest wrong-way crash on Wednesday, there have been nearly 30 incidents so far this year. Many drivers in the Valley have speculated why Arizona is such a problem area for this type of dangerous driving behavior.

www.abc15.com

I've heard of other instances, but don't have any MSM links, nor do I remember any of the details well enough to find them searching.

Yes, you can absolutely lose a GPS signal, or be directed to a less than desirable road thinking you're still taking a main or somewhat main route. Scary. In Chelsea's case, given that her car was still on route 6, it doesn't seem she was given incorrect directions unless she never intended to be on that road to begin with.

There was a recent situation where a man drove over a small bridge that had been out for years, and died, because Google Maps didn't indicate the road was closed. That wasn't a GPS issue, but just an example of how even a live functioning map can be incorrect. Family sues after man dies driving off collapsed bridge while following Google Maps

 

[acutename]

remember this? some GPS used to only be programmed to take the "shortest" map route
even if you went over a cliff or through a desert or whatever... i think some new programs are more sensitive and get feedback as well. I have read of other time closed gates that were not programmed in. However i fo not think CG was having a GPS problem, IMO.

Woman follows GPS, leads into wilderness instead of ...​

News 12 - New Jersey
https://newjersey.news12.com › watch-woman-follows...





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