AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[clorenc]

Good question.

AK-47 shell casings were found around on the property but they matched GK's gun.

Around the property other than just the patio?

 

[NuttMegg]

Or were they attempting to hide/shelter/find water in the barn? Would be interesting to know exactly where the body was found.

Does Kelly have more than one horse?

I’m no gun expert — is it unusual to have not located the bullet? Assuming it would have slowed down a bit passing through the body (and possibly a missing backpack). Could someone have taken it to hide evidence?

I’m having a hard time understanding how BP didn’t locate the body when they searched. I understand the acreage is vast, but it seems Kelly would’ve known the spot where he saw them. And I imagine vegetation is not so dense there, particularly in the winter. Maybe possible — but unlikely — that the body was moved for some reason?

I considered that maybe he didn’t die right away — that he could’ve stumbled around for a bit, tried to hide somewhere. But that doesn’t seem plausible if he was shot with an AK-47 in the back/chest. And I believe a witness (if he’s credible) stated he saw him grab his chest, roll his eyes, and collapse immediately?

I tend to sympathize with *undocumented* immigrants, as I was raised by one. But this is murky. Especially *IF* these migrants were engaged in violent activity.

Why live in a cartel crossing??

There is no proof that the murdered victim was engaged in violent activities. There is a coordinated effort to take the focus off the accused murderer. There is no proof of the group carrying ak47s, pointing them at Kelly or requiring him to return fire. We don't even know if women and children were along.

"Multiple U.S. Border Patrol sources told NewsNation that Kelly had a reputation among the smugglers as someone who fires his rifle off when undocumented individuals are on his property."

Arizona rancher’s charge reduced; migrant recounts shooting

One of the victims told the state that he had crossed the border six or seven times prior to this attempt on Jan 30, when the shooting took place.

www.newsnationnow.com

Mr. Kelly was sitting on his property.... a grandiose, spectacularly-failed tourism project. The documents were posted here on this same thread yesterday. No explanation for why he bought property so close to the border, when there have been problems for so long.

This morning diagrams were posted of the fenced area enclosing the tiny enclave he lives in, the fenced are which includes the house and barn.

Mr Kelly wrote a book, available on Amazon, which includes his attitudes towards immigrants.

He just miscalculated this time, imo, and murdered a man by accident. But since he is charged with shooting him in the back, hard to seek forgiveness. So now, an elaborate effort must be made to somehow make it the victim's own misfortune.

The focus of the case is the alleged murderer, the proof that will be presented against him, his motives, his history with shooting when immigrants pass by, his known, published, attitudes regarding immigrants, the pressures he likely endures since his planned business failed & the significant loss of value in his land.


Imo

 

[Telltale]

Imagine hearing gunshots close by and then deliberately stepping onto your back porch and seeing a bunch of intimidating looking guys carrying gear and pointing AK-47's at you. What would be your first instinct?

Would you point a rifle back at them and shoot over their heads? Would you run into your house and hide calling 911? Would you drop your gun and put your hands up?

According to Kelly he pointed his firearm right above them and pulled the trigger, several times.

Is this plausable? Wouldn't you assume if a bunch of AK-47's are pointed directly at you that you might end up being in a hail of gunfire if you shoot at them?

My first instinct would not be to run back in the house because I WOULD STILL BE IN THE HOUSE!
I wouldn't step foot outside if I heard gunshot, in fact I know this because I have heard on rare occasions
what sounded like a gun being shot in my neighborhood. I even stayed away from the windows and just listened to get an idea of how close they were and from what direction.

And if I stepped outside and was faced with loaded rifles pointing at me I would jump back in the house or if necessary, drop my gun and put up my hands and yell "don't shoot!" "I'm unarmed!"

I do not believe that these guys were so close to GK 's house that he was able to clearly see several AK-47's being pointed directly at him. Plus, why even walk up to his house with guns drawn if he was just innocently sitting inside eating lunch - unarmed?

I see your point, especially at shooting warning shots should the AKs be pointed in your direction.

Though I would say, in a neighborhood, you can be reasonably sure that distant (or even nearby) gunfire has nothing to do with you. Keeping inside and out of it is sensible. If you are the only house in 170 miles of private land, well you probably have to be a bit more concerned that sudden gunfire may end up involving you - and that help is pretty far away if it does.

What was actually happening with this migrant group is important, but for Mr Kelly what matters is more what he (reasonably) thought was happening in that moment.

If he did indeed see (or thought he saw) men with AKs approaching his property and thought they were firing in a way that honestly made him fear for his or his wife's life, - and that is the big if right now - he probably can be forgiven for not waiting to ask questions in those circumstances.

If he didn't but shot at them anyway. Well if it can be shown he was the one who shot Gabriel, then that is some flavour of murder or manslaughter and he should do the time for it.

 

[evilwise]

There is no proof that the murdered victim was engaged in violent activities. There is a coordinated effort to take the focus off the accused murderer. There is no proof of the group carrying ak47s, pointing them at Kelly or requiring him to return fire. We don't even know if women and children were along.

"Multiple U.S. Border Patrol sources told NewsNation that Kelly had a reputation among the smugglers as someone who fires his rifle off when undocumented individuals are on his property."

Arizona rancher’s charge reduced; migrant recounts shooting

One of the victims told the state that he had crossed the border six or seven times prior to this attempt on Jan 30, when the shooting took place.

www.newsnationnow.com

Mr. Kelly was sitting on his property.... a grandiose, spectacularly-failed tourism project. The documents were posted here on this same thread yesterday. No explanation for why he bought property so close to the border, when there have been problems for so long.

This morning diagrams were posted of the fenced area enclosing the tiny enclave he lives in, the fenced are which includes the house and barn.

Mr Kelly wrote a book, available on Amazon, which includes his attitudes towards immigrants.

He just miscalculated this time, imo, and murdered a man by accident. But since he is charged with shooting him in the back, hard to seek forgiveness. So now, an elaborate effort must be made to somehow make it the victim's own misfortune.

The focus of the case is the alleged murderer, the proof that will be presented against him, his motives, his history with shooting when immigrants pass by, his known, published, attitudes regarding immigrants, the pressures he likely endures since his planned business failed & the significant loss of value in his land.


Imo

Pretty sure you can't accidentally murder someone. The term "murder" requires intent.

 

[clorenc]

There is no proof that the murdered victim was engaged in violent activities.

Right, no proof that I’ve read. Which is why I emphasized if, as a hypothetical.

I personally believe that what occurred is morally wrong. But I’m trying to set aside my personal beliefs to determine whether Kelly had a legal right to do what he did.

We’ll of course find out about evidence, one way or the other, as things unfold. Keeping my fingers crossed for ballistics and security footage.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Pretty sure you can't accidentally murder someone. The term "murder" requires intent.

Arizona statute ARS 13-1104 classifies second degree murder as the act of causing the death of another person or intentionally causing the death of another person, including an unborn child.


For a guilty verdict, a prosecuting attorney must show one of the following:

• The defendant knew their actions would kill or severely injure another person
• The defendant intentionally killed the other person without prior planning
• The defendant took part in extremely reckless actions showing a lack of concern for another human life

Understanding Second Degree Murder in Arizona

Second degree murders in Arizona are an extremely serious offense. If found guilty, defendants face lengthy jail time in state prison. Two men are leaving a bar at the same time on a Friday night. One

coolidgelawfirmaz.com

 

[NuttMegg]

Let me guess @clorenc…you live in “The Emerald Triangle”…Mendocino, Humboldt or Trinity county. Former Humboldt resident here. Please don’t feel you have to confirm or deny my wild guess though.

Marijuana wars: Violent Mexican drug cartels turn Northern California into ‘The Wild West’

A shadow marijuana market is thriving in California, attracting Mexican cartels and harming people, animals and the environment.

www.usatoday.com

I read into your previous post about that, I had no idea.

 

[clorenc]

Let me guess @clorenc…you live in “The Emerald Triangle”…Mendocino, Humboldt or Trinity county. Former Humboldt resident here. Please don’t feel you have to confirm or deny my wild guess though.

Marijuana wars: Violent Mexican drug cartels turn Northern California into ‘The Wild West’

A shadow marijuana market is thriving in California, attracting Mexican cartels and harming people, animals and the environment.

www.usatoday.com

That would be a good guess! Correct state, but wrong part of the coast — I’m in Big Sur.

As I’m sure you know, these guys move at night and hike/ATV deep into the wilderness — hardly ever seen, besides the camps they leave behind. Very different from the situations in some parts of the desert border.

Cartels target Big Sur for big drug shipments. | Cover | montereycountyweekly.com

Investigators: Four men reportedly set trap, approach woman with guns near Old Coast Road – KION546

Arson arrest near Dolan Fire origin points to 'cartel-style' cannabis grow | Cover Collections | montereycountyweekly.com

 

[acutename]

Is GK's wife going to testify?

 

[NuttMegg]

Is GK's wife going to testify?

If she doesn't that will definitely hurt his case, imo. She was in court, she looks capable.

 

[Lilibet]

Real estate description of the Kelly’s ranch. Note “very quiet, peaceful and extremely private…” Not really.

Vermilion Mountain Ranch, Land for Sale in Arizona, #135503 : LANDFLIP

Vermilion Mountain Ranch. View this land for sale with 169 acres by Nogales in Santa Cruz County, Arizona 85621. Contact Robert Mills of First United Realty to learn more about this land. LANDFLIP #135503

www.landflip.com

“Vermilion Mountain Ranch is a must see property. This absolutely beautiful ranch includes 169 +/- acres of native grass lands with varied terrain and vegetation. It is a very picturesque setting with mesquites, huge oak trees, a magnificent riparian area and endless long views of mountains in every direction. The ranch is very quiet, peaceful & extremely private at the end of the road bordering thousands of acres of the Coronado National Forest and the Patagonia Mountains to the east.”

Apparently, he is also trying to sell a smaller 80 acre portion of the property. It has the same assessor parcel number as the larger property with a “B” after it.

Perfectly Private 80 Acres, Farm for Sale in Arizona, #336795 : FARMFLIP

Perfectly Private 80 Acres. View this farm for sale with 80 acres by Nogales in Santa Cruz County, Arizona 85621. Contact Robert Mills of First United Realty to learn more about this farm. FARMFLIP #336795

www.farmflip.com

And his wife filed with the State of AZ for an Arizona Trade Name called the “George Alan Kelly Legal Defense Fund.”

Company Search Subscription Service

Professional Company and Officer Search Subscription Service

www.bizapedia.com

 

[Lilibet]

That would be a good guess! Correct state, but wrong part of the coast — I’m in Big Sur.

As I’m sure you know, these guys move at night and hike/ATV deep into the wilderness — hardly ever seen, besides the camps they leave behind. Very different from the situations in some parts of the desert border.

Cartels target Big Sur for big drug shipments. | Cover | montereycountyweekly.com

Investigators: Four men reportedly set trap, approach woman with guns near Old Coast Road – KION546

Arson arrest near Dolan Fire origin points to 'cartel-style' cannabis grow | Cover Collections | montereycountyweekly.com

OT—We LOVED Big Sur back in the ‘60’s…went to the Big Sur Folk Festival, honeymooned there, ate at Nepenthe, wanted to live there. But we ended up in the Humboldt redwoods…also “God’s Country” at one time. So very sad what these areas have become. And it isn’t just the cartels that have ruined it. But I digress and better stop with the off topic memory lane trip.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm not very impressed with the LE investigation so far. Seems like they didn't like Mr Kelly's statements then one day later they arrested him and charged him with 1st degree murder.

Not sure if they cared to look for any exculpatory evidence. JMO.

Totally agree!

It is practically unheard of, without an eyewitness, to arrest someone for first degree murder the next day without first doing a thorough investigation. Was 16 months before they charged Alec Baldwin!

The fast downgrade of charges attests to not doing even a precursory investigation.

Also, practically unheard of, is the prosecutor in a high profile case refusing to comment publicly as to why the most serious charge was downgraded to 2nd degree. I think they won't comment because it shows Kelly in a better light, they can't say anything positive about him. The positive being that they realize he did not premeditate murder, did not plan to commit murder.

Are you talking about the nine shell casings found on the porch or some other casings from someplace else?

Some place else.

Judge: Murder charge vs. Arizona border rancher will move forward

A judge ruled late Friday that the prosecution of a rancher on charges including second-degree murder will proceed to trial in Santa Cruz County Superior Court.

tucson.com

Subscription but I can read full article in my "Reading View."

Detectives describe scene​

A detective testified he found bullet casings around the property that fit an AK-47 and match ammunition connected to Kelly.

The Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office discovered a bullet casing on Kelly’s back porch, while executing a search warrant, that can be used in an AK-47, as well as eight additional casings on the property, said the lead detective in the case, Jorge Ainza.

Officers who responded to the incident earlier in the day, before Cuen Buitimea’s body was discovered, saw Kelly with an AK-47, he said.

The place detectives found the casings was consistent with shots being fired toward where the body was found behind the house, Ainza said. He also found numerous rounds of ammunition matching the casings found on the property as well as a number of other weapons.

 

[pentimento]

Detectives describe scene​

A detective testified he found bullet casings around the property that fit an AK-47 and match ammunition connected to Kelly.

The Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office discovered a bullet casing on Kelly’s back porch, while executing a search warrant, that can be used in an AK-47, as well as eight additional casings on the property, said the lead detective in the case, Jorge Ainza.

Officers who responded to the incident earlier in the day, before Cuen Buitimea’s body was discovered, saw Kelly with an AK-47, he said.

The place detectives found the casings was consistent with shots being fired toward where the body was found behind the house, Ainza said. He also found numerous rounds of ammunition matching the casings found on the property as well as a number of other weapons.

Very interesting. I hadn't seen that level of detail before. Now I understand why he was arrested for first-degree murder. It looks like he went out on the property after them, and even a fool wouldn't do that if they thought those men were armed cartel. JMO.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I was just thinking that you hear these dramatic proclamations by former Border Patrol or some other "authority" that if people are being smuggled over the border then it is definitely cartel-related. I could be wrong, but I live near the Tijuana border crossing and it always seemed to me that it was more informal -- like individuals who operate as "Coyotes" and have the knowledge to get you over the border for a price. Maybe there's both things going on, IDK, but I've always thought of Coyotes as small-time operators.

There are multiple kinds. There are the ones who do it for a small fee where it’s easier to cross and you also have cartel or HT types.

 

[Soulmagent]

I wonder if Mr Kelly had any " NO TRESPASSING " signage in English /or Espanol on his property?

I dont think these guys practice sign observation .I cant image Kelly would not have the signs .

 

[NuttMegg]

Real estate description of the Kelly’s ranch. Note “very quiet, peaceful and extremely private…” Not really.

Vermilion Mountain Ranch, Land for Sale in Arizona, #135503 : LANDFLIP

Vermilion Mountain Ranch. View this land for sale with 169 acres by Nogales in Santa Cruz County, Arizona 85621. Contact Robert Mills of First United Realty to learn more about this land. LANDFLIP #135503

www.landflip.com

“Vermilion Mountain Ranch is a must see property. This absolutely beautiful ranch includes 169 +/- acres of native grass lands with varied terrain and vegetation. It is a very picturesque setting with mesquites, huge oak trees, a magnificent riparian area and endless long views of mountains in every direction. The ranch is very quiet, peaceful & extremely private at the end of the road bordering thousands of acres of the Coronado National Forest and the Patagonia Mountains to the east.”

Apparently, he is also trying to sell a smaller 80 acre portion of the property. It has the same assessor parcel number as the larger property with a “B” after it.

Perfectly Private 80 Acres, Farm for Sale in Arizona, #336795 : FARMFLIP

Perfectly Private 80 Acres. View this farm for sale with 80 acres by Nogales in Santa Cruz County, Arizona 85621. Contact Robert Mills of First United Realty to learn more about this farm. FARMFLIP #336795

www.farmflip.com

And his wife filed with the State of AZ for an Arizona Trade Name called the “George Alan Kelly Legal Defense Fund.”

Company Search Subscription Service

Professional Company and Officer Search Subscription Service

www.bizapedia.com

I don't see any non-profit designation, so is it a for profit company where fewer strictures would be placed on her? Imo that makes more sense than depending on religious organizations for funding and being seen as affiliated with any particular religion. But I see "Governing Agency Arizona Secretary of State", so there must be rules, or maybe that would tie into tax deductability for donations. I know in Alaska that legal defense funds can reach up and bite you in the patuti if the rules aren't followed.

I notice that some media has bombastically accused gimmee of cutting off the Kelly account (or set up by someone else for him). but they dont report on gimmee's stated policy of refusing fund raising for accused murderers. Thus portraying him as a victim.

I saw that one clip from court where iirc he was asking about the definition of indigent but the judge appeared to be skeptical of his qualifying for indigency.

Imo

 

[NuttMegg]

I dont think these guys practice sign observation .I cant image Kelly would not have the signs .

"If" the only fence on his property is snugged up around his house and barn, and with the house being right on the road very near the southern edge of town, ie on the N/NE sector of the 170 acres, I can see how the rest of his property might be seen as a good place to cross, open and unoccupied. Signs or no signs, its fencing that sends the signal, imo. But how costly to fence 170 acres in a meaningful manner.

Looking at the map, here on this thread posted earlier, I don't really see the point for anyone going north to pass anywhere near his house and basically hit the edge of town, unless they are just following the road TO town. Presumably he can't legally control who stays on that road, which may be why the pros. witness mentioned being near the road. That would be interesting to find out, re who owns the road and if it is maintained by a government entity. Where I live that's a huge deal with public roads passing through otherwise private property.

Sra. Castillo, local resident, said she drives on that road at early and late hours, and has never encountered a problem in her 10 years living there.

If he did hear a shot fired while he was lunching, the position of his house means it could have come from the town direction.

Imo

 

[worm]

Totally agree!

It is practically unheard of, without an eyewitness, to arrest someone for first degree murder the next day without first doing a thorough investigation. Was 16 months before they charged Alec Baldwin!

The fast downgrade of charges attests to not doing even a precursory investigation.

Also, practically unheard of, is the prosecutor in a high profile case refusing to comment publicly as to why the most serious charge was downgraded to 2nd degree. I think they won't comment because it shows Kelly in a better light, they can't say anything positive about him. The positive being that they realize he did not premeditate murder, did not plan to commit murder.

Some place else.

Judge: Murder charge vs. Arizona border rancher will move forward

A judge ruled late Friday that the prosecution of a rancher on charges including second-degree murder will proceed to trial in Santa Cruz County Superior Court.

tucson.com

Subscription but I can read full article in my "Reading View."

Detectives describe scene​

A detective testified he found bullet casings around the property that fit an AK-47 and match ammunition connected to Kelly.

The Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office discovered a bullet casing on Kelly’s back porch, while executing a search warrant, that can be used in an AK-47, as well as eight additional casings on the property, said the lead detective in the case, Jorge Ainza.

Officers who responded to the incident earlier in the day, before Cuen Buitimea’s body was discovered, saw Kelly with an AK-47, he said.

The place detectives found the casings was consistent with shots being fired toward where the body was found behind the house, Ainza said. He also found numerous rounds of ammunition matching the casings found on the property as well as a number of other weapons.

Did they find casings from the 10-15 people that were firing at him?

 

[NuttMegg]

Did they find casings from the 10-15 people that were firing at him?

Ditto that. They would not have had time to go around recovering casings, retrieving backpacks and gathering up ak47s as they were under fire. Iirc Kelly said "10" , and he said that his wife confirms "10" .

Kelly, OTOH had hours.