AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[RasBan]

Kelly went onto his porch with his rifle. "The leader of the armed group of men saw Mr. Kelly and pointed an AK-47 right at him," Larkin wrote. Mr. K, fearing for his life and safety, fired several shots from his rifle, hoping to scare the group away.

SBM

I would absolutely fear for my life & safety if I saw anyone armed on my property, much less the sheer terror if I lived in cartel territory. The very last thing I would do is attract attention to myself by letting them know I observed them & under no circumstance would I confront them with a weapon if I thought they were cartel, like in his scenario above. I would be terrified they would kill me just for challenging them, not to mention the danger I would be putting my wife in as well. I'm surprised he's not concerned about retaliation. From everything I know about the cartel & the areas they control, they are not to be messed with & avoided at all costs. I am not saying the men on his property that day were cartel members but his description of them sounds like he thought they were. Just for clarification, this is how I would feel in the same scenario but I recognize it's impossible for me to understand what it's truly like since I don't live in a border town & have to deal with these issues.

 

[Hexe]

Why would a backpack stop a high velocity rifle bullet? Some ballistic vests cannot stop rifle rounds.

It would not stop it, I never suggested that. But a large backpack would slow the bullet down considerably, so it would not have enough force to go through and through the body.

 

[Laughing]

SBM

I would absolutely fear for my life & safety if I saw anyone armed on my property, much less the sheer terror if I lived in cartel territory. The very last thing I would do is attract attention to myself by letting them know I observed them & under no circumstance would I confront them with a weapon if I thought they were cartel, like in his scenario above. I would be terrified they would kill me just for challenging them, not to mention the danger I would be putting my wife in as well. I'm surprised he's not concerned about retaliation. From everything I know about the cartel & the areas they control, they are not to be messed with & avoided at all costs. I am not saying the men on his property that day were cartel members but his description of them sounds like he thought they were. Just for clarification, this is how I would feel in the same scenario but I recognize it's impossible for me to understand what it's truly like since I don't live in a border town & have to deal with these issues.

Having lived in a border area, LE's advice to me was to present as someone who is not a victim.

The border is long, and groups that cross have options to travel in different areas.

Upthread, a poster states that their family leaves out water jugs for unknown persons in the area.

I was advised to have loud dogs and motion sensor lighting. Also range time for accuracy.

LE explained that the message sent to groups traveling near your home was passed to other groups.

As humans, we tend to accept the path of least resistance.

That's water jugs.

Just my lived experience.

 

[Laughing]

It would not stop it, I never suggested that. But a large backpack would slow the bullet down considerably, so it would not have enough force to go through and through the body.

Bullet travel is affected by multiple factors. IDK that a bullet would not pass through a backpack & the body.

Consider the possibility that another member of the group picked up the backpack.

It would be interesting to know what was in the backpack. If indeed the bullet traveled through a backpack, fibers & residue are in the wound.

Also would be interesting to know more about the radio.

Pondering the possibilities.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It would not stop it, I never suggested that. But a large backpack would slow the bullet down considerably, so it would not have enough force to go through and through the body.

I have doubts about that. Can you link something that would show that's true. JMO.

 

[Vern]

It would not stop it, I never suggested that. But a large backpack would slow the bullet down considerably, so it would not have enough force to go through and through the body.

It's an AK47. This Army girl doubts a backpack is slowing it down.

 

[Laughing]

It's an AK47. This Army girl doubts a backpack is slowing it down.

Link, please?

IIRC, we know that 2 AK-47 rifles were confiscated/seized/taken from/accepted from Mr. Kelly.

AFAIK, no bullet was found near the body. Casings, yes, but no bullet unless that has changed.

With no bullet, afaik, LE cannot determine what type of firearm was used.

(I'll grant that it wasn't any muzzle-loader that I've ever handled.)

Has this changed?

 

[NuttMegg]

Having lived in a border area, LE's advice to me was to present as someone who is not a victim.

The border is long, and groups that cross have options to travel in different areas.

Upthread, a poster states that their family leaves out water jugs for unknown persons in the area.

I was advised to have loud dogs and motion sensor lighting. Also range time for accuracy.

LE explained that the message sent to groups traveling near your home was passed to other groups.

As humans, we tend to accept the path of least resistance.

That's water jugs.

Just my lived experience.

Also humane thing to do.

Could I ask what is range time? Something to do with sighting a firearm to the ideal distance?

 

[Tbone144]

It's an AK47. This Army girl doubts a backpack is slowing it down.

I agree. Velocity the bullet is traveling when it hit the backpack, contents of the backpack would all play into it, but I doubt it would substantially slow that round enough to make it not travel through a human body. We also don’t know the path it took through the body.

IMOO

7.62x39 vs 5.56 Rifle Caliber Comparison and What You Need To Know

When it comes to selecting a semi-automatic rifle cartridge, the 7.62 vs 5.56 debate is always at the forefront of the conversation. Both calibers have been proven on the battlefield beginning in Vietnam and all the way through the Global War on Terror. As a result, they are two of the most...

www.shotstop.net

Velocity and energy of a 7.62 x 39 with distances

 

[Soulmagent]

I have doubts about that. Can you link something that would show that's true. JMO.

No back pack was found ,just a radio. I cant speculate on an assumption that backpacks were slowing down bullets . Seems too whimsical a theory made after jumping rocks to cross a river .

I think the horse was more likely to be the shooter than a backpack slowing down a round from an ak47.IMO

 

[wary]

Also humane thing to do.

Could I ask what is range time? Something to do with sighting a firearm to the ideal distance?

Time spent at a firing range, practicing shooting. To develop accuracy and familiarity with your weapon.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I agree. Velocity the bullet is traveling when it hit the backpack, contents of the backpack would all play into it, but I doubt it would substantially slow that round enough to make it not travel through a human body. We also don’t know the path it took through the body.

IMOO

7.62x39 vs 5.56 Rifle Caliber Comparison and What You Need To Know

When it comes to selecting a semi-automatic rifle cartridge, the 7.62 vs 5.56 debate is always at the forefront of the conversation. Both calibers have been proven on the battlefield beginning in Vietnam and all the way through the Global War on Terror. As a result, they are two of the most...

www.shotstop.net

Velocity and energy of a 7.62 x 39 with distances

Thanks for the link. It shows us that with the rounds listed velocity and energy remain high at a distance of 100 yards. JMO.

 

[Laughing]

Also humane thing to do.

Could I ask what is range time? Something to do with sighting a firearm to the ideal distance?

Different jobs require different tools.

Practice in tool use is responsible.

Firearms are tools, just like hoof picks, screwdrivers, pliers, paint brushes, awls, saddle soap, hay hooks, scales, recording systems, telephones, vehicles, knives, saws, fences....

Range time is for accuracy.

I was employed to take care of my employer's horses & property.

Stopping a rattlesnake from striking my employer's property was due to adequate range time.

Protecting foals (baby horses) from coyotes was due to range time.

Again, just my lived experience. Hospitality was not part of the job.

Have you lived in this area?

 

[Tbone144]

Having lived in a border area, LE's advice to me was to present as someone who is not a victim.

The border is long, and groups that cross have options to travel in different areas.

Upthread, a poster states that their family leaves out water jugs for unknown persons in the area.

I was advised to have loud dogs and motion sensor lighting. Also range time for accuracy.

LE explained that the message sent to groups traveling near your home was passed to other groups.

As humans, we tend to accept the path of least resistance.

That's water jugs.

Just my lived experience.

My grandparents lived on US side of Nogales years and years ago they were advised similarly. They went as far as to install a water tap and hose at the furthest edge of their property and leave it unfenced to keep the unknown persons away from the house. Large dogs in fenced yard around house, small dogs in house and grandma could handle a handgun or rifle. As far as they were concerned, unknown persons had no reason to be near their house unless they were up to no good. After Grandpa got thrown in a Mexican jail they decided to move back north.

 

[NuttMegg]

Time spent at a firing range, practicing shooting. To develop accuracy and familiarity with your weapon.

Thanks, what came to mind was a range finder for photographers, or for rifle scopes.

 

[NuttMegg]

Different jobs require different tools.

Practice in tool use is responsible.

Firearms are tools, just like hoof picks, screwdrivers, pliers, paint brushes, awls, saddle soap, hay hooks, scales, recording systems, telephones, vehicles, knives, saws, fences....

Range time is for accuracy.

I was employed to take care of my employer's horses & property.

Stopping a rattlesnake from striking my employer's property was due to adequate range time.

Protecting foals (baby horses) from coyotes was due to range time.

Again, just my lived experience. Hospitality was not part of the job.

Have you lived in this area?

No, but I live in another country that is severely impacted by refugees from Venezuela,the humanitarian values are strikingly different in the affected countries across the continent. You could see thousands of refugees, now, camping at the border in squalor, extreme heat, mostly families with kids. Many others like the young adult men hire "coyotes" to bring them across land-mined borders thus avoiding control points.

Regarding my "humane thing to do" comment I was referring to the person mentioned who does leave out water so people pass safely and quickly thru, not causing trouble to the landowner.

 

[evilwise]

Maybe leave jugs of water at the edge of your neighbor's property - and maybe trails of Reese's Pieces leading to their hunting cabins or guest lodges.

 

[mickey2942]

I don't know much about this case, but aren't people allowed to protect their property from trespass? Stand your ground? Surprised he was even arrested.

 

[worm]

There’s a lot of “ifs” but if the guy is honest about shooting over their heads, which is very irresponsible in itself, then it’s possible that it was a ruckus that happened to take place there. Again, a lot of ifs.

 

[SuziQ]

Migrants killing dogs, stealing from homes prompts some Texas border town residents to arm themselves

Eagle Pass, Texas, residents share how mass illegal migration has made them feel unsafe in their small town following robberies, break-ins and pet killings.

www.foxnews.com