AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[Lilibet]

Kelly had roughly 3 hours from his first call to when le came for the body. What if the backpack, if it existed, had presents for some nieces/nephews and some special food items. Imagine how that would make his killing seem even worse. That whole story he told about going down to the pasture to see if the horse really had been hit, sorry my eyes were immediately rolling. He waited hours to check on his beloved "old" horse? And the body just happened to be there? And he didn't touch anything?

Yes, waiting so long to check on his horse caught my eye right away too. And I’d like to know where the pasture is in relation to the house. Is it logically where the body would be if he was shooting over the heads of the intruders from his back porch and hit one of them? It seems to be further IMO if he couldn’t see his horse from the house. I realize he’d want to check his horse up close, but there’s just something about the body being found there that causes questions for me. And if it raises questions for me, I expect it raised even more questions for LE, which could explain the initial and immediate charges.

JMO

 

[Telltale]

Yes, waiting so long to check on his horse caught my eye right away too. And I’d like to know where the pasture is in relation to the house. Is it logically where the body would be if he was shooting over the heads of the intruders from his back porch and hit one of them? It seems to be further IMO if he couldn’t see his horse from the house. I realize he’d want to check his horse up close, but there’s just something about the body being found there that causes questions for me. And if it raises questions for me, I expect it raised even more questions for LE, which could explain the initial and immediate charges.

JMO

He could have just been checking in his horse again in the evening. I think his dog alerted him to the body. Though I did have the thought that had he and LE walked the property earlier in the day, you would expect the dogs to be taken along.

Mr. Kelly had a conversation with Border Patrol again that ended at 2.36pm....while Mr. Kelly was checking his barn, a number of Border Patrol agents and Sheriff's deputies arrived on the property.

[They] walked all over Mr. Kelly's property in search of the group of people and did not find anybody.

Later that day, as the sun was going down, Mr. Kelly went to his pastures in order to check on his horse. He took his dogs with him. After locating the horse, Mr. Kelly noticed that his dogs were focused on something on the ground near a mesquite tree. Mr. Kelly approached his dogs and observed a body lying face down in the grass.

 

[SteveS]

Yes, waiting so long to check on his horse caught my eye right away too.

Not me. That would be completely normal imo.

When a horse runs away from being startled, it's eventually coming back (to its food and shelter), and on 170 acres it's a waste of time to bother to chase. Only when the horse doesn't return for quite some time would there be reason to wonder if there's a problem, and go look.

 

[Lilibet]

He could have just been checking in his horse again in the evening. I think his dog alerted him to the body. Though I did have the thought that had he and LE walked the property earlier in the day, you would expect the dogs to be taken along.

Mr. Kelly had a conversation with Border Patrol again that ended at 2.36pm....while Mr. Kelly was checking his barn, a number of Border Patrol agents and Sheriff's deputies arrived on the property.

[They] walked all over Mr. Kelly's property in search of the group of people and did not find anybody.

Later that day, as the sun was going down, Mr. Kelly went to his pastures in order to check on his horse. He took his dogs with him. After locating the horse, Mr. Kelly noticed that his dogs were focused on something on the ground near a mesquite tree. Mr. Kelly approached his dogs and observed a body lying face down in the grass.

Yes, you’re right that it could have been a second check on his horse, but I got the impression from an early statement that he went to the pasture to see if his horse had been hit by the shot fired initially. So that’s why I got the impression it was the first time he checked on the horse.

 

[NuttMegg]

<modsnip>

The FACT is, someone did take stuff from Kelly's body and possession after his death. We don't know all that was included (which means a weapon could have been part of that). Both Kelly and the state witness testified that items were there when the interaction occurred, and then they were NOT there when LE first saw the body. Unless you think they dissolved into thin air, of course!

There is a LOT we don't know about this case yet, and the things that happened and the circumstances around it.

No, we don't know that anyone took anything. If they did, it could have been Kelly's wife, for instance, she was in the house at least at lunch time. There are inconsistencies or holes, as the judge said. One of them is whether or not he had a backpack. You have cited Kelly as saying the victim had a backpack, but Kelly was all over the place in his stories, and I really don't believe that there has been any evidence that Kelly said "the victim had a backpack on". If so, I d like to read it, we've posted probably 20 articles here and none have said that, imo.

 

[Lilibet]

Not me. That would be completely normal imo.

When a horse runs away from being startled, it's eventually coming back (to its food and shelter), and on 170 acres it's a waste of time to bother to chase. Only when the horse doesn't return for quite some time would there be reason to wonder if there's a problem, and go look.

Clearly, I’m not too familiar with horse behavior.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes, waiting so long to check on his horse caught my eye right away too. And I’d like to know where the pasture is in relation to the house. Is it logically where the body would be if he was shooting over the heads of the intruders from his back porch and hit one of them? It seems to be further IMO if he couldn’t see his horse from the house. I realize he’d want to check his horse up close, but there’s just something about the body being found there that causes questions for me. And if it raises questions for me, I expect it raised even more questions for LE, which could explain the initial and immediate charges.

JMO

Was the pasture fenced? How did the horse get back in, if so? He said the horse ran by the house in terror, so when did he take it to the pasture? Why didn't he see the body then?

 

[Telltale]

No, we don't know that anyone took anything. If they did, it could have been Kelly's wife, for instance, she was in the house at least at lunch time. There are inconsistencies or holes, as the judge said. One of them is whether or not he had a backpack. You have cited Kelly as saying the victim had a backpack, but Kelly was all over the place in his stories, and I really don't believe that there has been any evidence that Kelly said "the victim had a backpack on". If so, I d like to read it, we've posted probably 20 articles here and none have said that, imo.

The witness said he had a camo backpack on. Kelly also described the party as carrying AKs and big backpacks.

D.R.R. testified that he and Cuen-Buitimea, whom he called a friend, had paid a guide for passage across the border on Jan. 30 and were heading to Phoenix. He also said neither of them was carrying a weapon, and the guide had left them. Cuen-Buitimea was wearing a green camouflage backpack as well as a bag on his belt

As they ate, Mr. Kelly heard a single gunshot. Next, he saw his horse - who is old - running away scared and at full speed. Finally, he saw a group of men moving through the trees around his home. They were armed with AK-47 rifles, dressed in khakis and camouflaged clothing, and carrying large backpacks. None of them were known to him

When his body was discovered he did not have any firearms or a backpack, but he did have a radio and tactical boots, the court filing says. The cause of death appeared to be a single gunshot wound and “it appeared that the body was fresh,” meaning he had likely died recently.

 

[SteveS]

With all due respect, is this another case of typing 10 feet when 10 yards is meant? (The post you quoted says 10 feet, and my impression is that no one is actually claiming that that was the distance.)

Fair question - I can certainly do a typo! But ..

No. He keeps wanting to litigate the 10 yards whenever it is mentioned, even though it's witness testimony in court and shared here multiple times.

FWIW I've tried to say 10 "yards" each time, and one time I didn't (inadvertently writing "feet") but that was already asked and corrected, and I know I have correctly said 10 yards many many times since. This time too.

 

[NuttMegg]

The witness said he had a camo backpack on. Kelly also described the party as carrying AKs and big backpacks.

D.R.R. testified that he and Cuen-Buitimea, whom he called a friend, had paid a guide for passage across the border on Jan. 30 and were heading to Phoenix. He also said neither of them was carrying a weapon, and the guide had left them. Cuen-Buitimea was wearing a green camouflage backpack as well as a bag on his belt

They were armed with AK-47 rifles, dressed in khakis and camouflaged clothing, and carrying large backpacks. None of them were known to him


View attachment 405852

No, Kelly did not say the victim had a backpack on, and according to the prosecuting attorney Kelly said the group was too far away to determine whether or not they were armed. You've probably seen the photos of the very bushy area around his house and extending across his property, how could he have seen all 10 (he says) at the same time? Anyway he never specifically says the victim was wearing a backpack. He never says he even knew which if any WAS the victim. He identified ak's at 100-150 yards?

 

[wary]

No, Kelly did not say the victim had a backpack on, and according to the prosecuting attorney Kelly said the group was too far away to determine whether or not they were armed. You've probably seen the photos of the very bushy area around his house and extending across his property, how could he have seen all 10 (he says) at the same time? Anyway he never specifically says the victim was wearing a backpack.

GK didn’t say that the victim was wearing a backpack—however, he did say that the members of the group that the victim was presumably in were wearing backpacks.

More to the point, I think, is that the prosecution’s witness said that the victim was wearing a backpack.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

No, Kelly did not say the victim had a backpack on, and according to the prosecuting attorney Kelly said the group was too far away to determine whether or not they were armed. You've probably seen the photos of the very bushy area around his house and extending across his property, how could he have seen all 10 (he says) at the same time? Anyway he never specifically says the victim was wearing a backpack. He never says he even knew which if any WAS the victim. He identified ak's at 100-150 yards?

Why would D.R.R testify that C-B was wearing a camo backback and a bag on his belt?

Judge OK’s Arizona rancher trial in Mexican migrant killing

PHOENIX (AP) — An Arizona rancher accused of shooting at a group of migrants on his property near the U.S.-Mexico border, killing one man, will face trial on charges including second-degree murder …

wgnradio.com

 

[NuttMegg]

GK didn’t say that the victim was wearing a backpack—however, he did say that the members of the group that the victim was presumably in were wearing backpacks.

More to the point, I think, is that the prosecution’s witness said that the victim was wearing a backpack.

MOO

Oh I'll go with that, the witness said that. But not Kelly. Unless he had focused on that specific man, and watched him fall. (oops, premeditation). he could not say the victim was wearing a packpack. He claims he didn't even know of the death until hours later. Read once again all he claims for those nearly 3 hours. When certain things happened. He's got gunfire going on more than once. How does he know which time who was killed? Returning gunfire, seeing the leader aim an ak at him near the house, seeing a large group further out, shooting over their heads. Did Kelly refer to the 2 other men closest to the victim? So much to question on the accused murderer.

 

[Telltale]

No, Kelly did not say the victim had a backpack on, and according to the prosecuting attorney Kelly said the group was too far away to determine whether or not they were armed. You've probably seen the photos of the very bushy area around his house and extending across his property, how could he have seen all 10 (he says) at the same time? Anyway he never specifically says the victim was wearing a backpack. He never says he even knew which if any WAS the victim. He identified ak's at 100-150 yards?

Please see the above filed memorandum of law Kelly has stated the group was wearing backpacks, I linked the photo posted in the Daily Mail article. Though I am sure he was too far away to say if the victim was wearing a backpack, the sole witness giving testimony said he was.

The prosecuting attorney says he stated the group was unarmed. The defence stated his comment was misheard and later corrected prior to LE arriving on the property.

He called the U.S. Border Patrol after the incident. Larkin said the agent incorrectly reported that Kelly stated he couldn't tell if the men were armed or not, but that radio dispatchers correctly reported armed men had been seen in the area.

The veracity of that is of course up for debate.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Oh I'll go with that, the witness said that. But not Kelly. Unless he had focused on that specific man, and watched him fall. (oops, premeditation). he could not say the victim was wearing a packpack. He claims he didn't even know of the death until hours later. Read once again all he claims for those nearly 3 hours. When certain things happened. He's got gunfire going on more than once. How does he know which time who was killed? Returning gunfire, seeing the leader aim an ak at him near the house, seeing a large group further out, shooting over their heads. Did Kelly refer to the 2 other men closest to the victim? So much to question on the accused murderer.

So where did the backpack go?

 

[NuttMegg]

Please see the above filed memorandum of law Kelly has stated the group was wearing backpacks, I linked the photo posted in the Daily Mail article. Though I am sure he was too far away to say if the victim was wearing a backpack, the sole witness giving testimony said he was.

The prosecuting attorney says he stated the group was unarmed. The defence stated his comment was misheard and later corrected prior to LE arriving on the property.

He called the U.S. Border Patrol after the incident. Larkin said the agent incorrectly reported that Kelly stated he couldn't tell if the men were armed or not, but that radio dispatchers correctly reported armed men had been seen in the area.

The veracity of that is of course up for debate.

Defense attys do what they have to do to get paid. In any case, if there was a backpack the Kelly family had far more time to do something with it after the murder.

 

[Telltale]

This is interesting though. I have not seen this fuller quote of Kelly's conversation on that fifth call before. It seems that no matter what he is saying now he thought it possible that he might have hit someone when he first found the body. - well at the least it appears his phrasing ties the two instances together, even if his later statements walk that back.

When Morsell requested the details, Kelly continued to be evasive and said: 'This is bad. I need someone to respond out here.' You know how shots were fired earlier, something was possibly shot. I can't say more over the phone.

One of the deputies turned on the recorder on his phone while they talked and walked with Kelly. Kelly told him that there was a shot fired and he didn't know what it was about. He went out to get his horse.

He said he 'walked all over it' and claimed 'maybe this happened after you left' referring to the earlier visit by deputies.

He said 'there's a body over there, as soon as I saw it I backed away from it.' Later, Kelly spoke with detectives. After initially denying that he shot at the group, he later admitted shooting.

He claimed he directed his shots over the heads of the group.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Defense attys do what they have to do to get paid. In any case, if there was a backpack the Kelly family had far more time to do something with it after the murder.

So Kelly got rid of the backpack he never saw but left the body were it was instead of moving it off of his property. Is that what you think happened? JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

The witness said he had a camo backpack on. Kelly also described the party as carrying AKs and big backpacks.

D.R.R. testified that he and Cuen-Buitimea, whom he called a friend, had paid a guide for passage across the border on Jan. 30 and were heading to Phoenix. He also said neither of them was carrying a weapon, and the guide had left them. Cuen-Buitimea was wearing a green camouflage backpack as well as a bag on his belt

As they ate, Mr. Kelly heard a single gunshot. Next, he saw his horse - who is old - running away scared and at full speed. Finally, he saw a group of men moving through the trees around his home. They were armed with AK-47 rifles, dressed in khakis and camouflaged clothing, and carrying large backpacks. None of them were known to him

When his body was discovered he did not have any firearms or a backpack, but he did have a radio and tactical boots, the court filing says. The cause of death appeared to be a single gunshot wound and “it appeared that the body was fresh,” meaning he had likely died recently.


View attachment 405852

@Telltale

Would you post a link to this Memorandum? I would like to add it to my bookmarks, thanks.

 

[Eli9]

Y'all
The Preliminary hearing is on youtube. It's in two parts and I listened to the first part yesterday which included Detective Ienca (phonetic spelling) and testimony from DRR. It's painfully long because there were a couple of glitches with the stream. I'm working up to watching/listening to the second part. Just FYI