AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #10

[Searchfortruth]

Good morning WS'ers ! I am still on my first cup of coffee, so I shouldn't even be allowed to touch a keyboard yet (2 cups is usually the minimum requirement for me). Anyway, I am stumped on this BeanE. I have to believe that if EJ did give Gabriel away it was with some sort of assistance from TS. My fear is that something worse has happened to Gabriel, I hope I'm wrong on this one.

 

[BeanE]

Our mod, hoppyfrog, posted this in another thread. Thought I'd link it in here, cuz it's good info.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4623467"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased MO-Elizabeth Olten, 9, St. Martin's Thread #14[/ame]

 

[Baznme]

Good morning all. I'm only on my first cup of coffee, so here goes. I share your opinion, Searchfortruth and I say that only because I watch and listen to TS's every word since she got caught in the CC signature lie. She's bouncing off the walls now with her non-sensical chatter about why this and why that. She's petrified at what they may find on the computers, bank accounts, etc. Even though she may have deleted records from the computers, the experts know how to retrieve whatever was once on them. I believe the answer MAY be in those records. The pictures on the camera that EJ took while in the hotel room are a clue to me. She took the pics for a reason. What was it? Were they her last photos of him before he was handed over or were they for the prospective "new" parents and she downloaded them to her computer and emailed them to someone? If that occurred, they would be able to trace who she sent them to. I think LE already has a lot more info than we even know about but the searches of the items they took from the S's home will be the icing on the cake so they can go get Gabriel. Just my opinion.

 

[BeanE]

NG transcript from last night's show is up:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/15/ng.01.html

I'm dying to read the Tennessee stuff.

 

[pghbrandi]

NG transcript from last night's show is up:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/15/ng.01.html

I'm dying to read the Tennessee stuff.

So they DO have a house in Tennessee! She's something else!!!

 

[BeanE]

JOSTAD: What kind of things were you hoping that police would look at on your computers? What information there would be relevant to the search?

SMITH: Well, OK, in -- from the beginning, in talking to the police, they asked us, you know, did we ever try to help her. And I said, Well, the only way we ever tried to help her was, you know, before we knew she could change her -- whether or not she could change jurisdictions. She was telling us that she was going to run. She was go into hiding, change her Social Security number.

And so we panicked at that point, and we did not want that baby to vanish into thin air for the rest of his life. And so we were grabbing at straws, like the police are right now, trying to figure out how to keep that baby still surfaced, you know? And so we had thought of scenarios, and we talked to a couple of friends and people about the scenarios of -- you know, we have a house in Tennessee, and you know, things like that, that maybe she can go stay there. We can let her stay there. We could help her and all this, and while she`s changing jurisdictions.

Well, by the next day, after doing research throughout the next day, we realized, Oh, she cannot change jurisdictions. It`s illegal. So immediately, we started, you know, telling her, You need to come back, you can`t change jurisdictions.

And that`s when I called Janet Morris (ph) from Tennessee and said, Hey, she`s not coming back. I don`t know what to do. Can you please tell her what her legal rights are and get her back here? And that`s exactly what Janet did. And so the cool thing about that is our computer will corroborate that entire story.

 

[BeanE]

I want a timeframe on this stuff. Eliz told her grandfather way back on Dec 9 she was going to change her SSN and go on the run.

They slipped on another show and said on Dec 18 Eliz told them she was going on the run. And that was after they kept saying previously that Eliz was only taking Gabriel for his visit with Logan.

The Janet phone call was supposedly on Dec 26.

I think they helped Eliz go to San Antonio. I don't know what I mean by help. Money maybe. Paid for the hotel maybe. Suggesting that would be a good city/state maybe.

 

[BeanE]

Earlier NG where TayJay have no idea why LE is poking around in TN:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/08/ng.01.html

CASAREZ: Now what is your -- to Jack and Tammi Smith, what is your connection with Nashville?

J. SMITH: Well, I was in the music business for about 35 years. So I lived in Nashville for about that long. And then Tammi moved there and we met about 12 years ago and we`ve been together pretty much for the last 10.

CASAREZ: So what was the last time you were in Nashville?

J. SMITH: Last time I was in Nashville was probably about a year and a half ago? Two years ago maybe?

CASAREZ: Do you talk to a lot of people in Nashville?

J. SMITH: My family. My brother`s there. My two sons are there. Yes, after 35 years you do have friends there. Certainly.

CASAREZ: So what do you think about all these tips coming from a place that you used to live in?

J. SMITH: I have no earthly idea. No earthly idea. Nashville`s a beautiful town.

 

[ethonic]

Thank you so much BeanE for those links! So what we are finding out is Tammi lied?? shock! Oh Tammi...

 

[robinmphoto]

I want a timeframe on this stuff. Eliz told her grandfather way back on Dec 9 she was going to change her SSN and go on the run.

They slipped on another show and said on Dec 18 Eliz told them she was going on the run. And that was after they kept saying previously that Eliz was only taking Gabriel for his visit with Logan.

The Janet phone call was supposedly on Dec 26.

I think they helped Eliz go to San Antonio. I don't know what I mean by help. Money maybe. Paid for the hotel maybe. Suggesting that would be a good city/state maybe.

I think so too and for what ever reason, they started trying to have her come back. My thinking is that Logan filed the kidnapping charges and then she wrote the text about killing Gabriel. She told the Smiths about him filing and they panicked and called Janet. Maybe Elizabeth at that point decided she was not coming back as she was already on the run. I seriously think the original plan was to go into hiding like the Smith's suggested. Then Logan stepped in. I think Elizabeth is more upset about Logan stepping in messing with her plans than how he is as a father. She was upset back in December early when he would not sign papers.

I believe Elizabeth was really set on adopting Gabriel out whether talked into or not but my fear is that when adoption was not working out smoothly, then what did she do?

So sad and I sure hope Gabriel is found soon safe.

 

[Elphaba]

Tammi deserves to have her tail sitting in a jail cell...

 

[mysticrose]

Good morning everyone

Still getting coffee down.

BeanE thanks for your post on breakdowns of what might have happened to Gabe.
I think that EJ contacted someone through Craiglist to give the baby to, it just seems that she is fairly fond of using it and when the deal did not work out with the Smith's she was bound and determined to do what she was going to do and had her mind made up.

Her defiance that she showed toward the Judges in both videos I have seen tells me that she has no respect for authority and feels she can do what she wants, Gabe was her baby so therefore she can do what she wants ," kiss my a** suckers" in her own words.

It concerns me though what type of people advertise on Craigslist and actually go through with taking a baby knowing full well it is not legal.
I wonder did she ever stop to think that the people taking Gabe could have ill intentions for him such as the sex trade industry ? May be someone should put that in her ear ...

Even if she found someone underground to help out that was decent they will not come forward with him because it would blow their whole operation apart.

The big clencher for me at this point is why she is not talking to LE and assisting in helping find Baby Gabe. Perhaps she does not realize the magnatude of trouble she is in and how long she will be sitting in prison over it. Maybe when it starts to sink in then she will talk, I can't imagine EJ sitting in prison for years to cover the butt of someone she does not hardly know...
if she doesnt talk soon I can only come to the assumption that she has done the unspeakable to the Baby that is the only conclusion I can come up with as to why she won't talk.
Praying for Baby Gabriel today and hope some answer's emerge out of this whole mess....and of course moo...

 

[kjt300]

Very long time lurker, first time poster.

A couple thoughts.....

....I agree about the Smiths being in this thing up to their eyeballs. To me, it doesn't even matter anymore if they were involved in the "end game", no matter how it played out. They (especially TS) preyed upon ES, encouraging her, making her feel as if she was doing a noble thing and providing her with the tools she needed to move forward in this plan. Who will ever know how this would have turned out had EJ never met the Smiths. It's such a pity.

...TS cannot seem to help herself when it comes to the limelight. It's so similar to Cindy Anthony who also must have been told how the public reacts to her but keeps on keeping on in the most dysfunctional manner. If nothing else I hope that LE does a forensic accounting of the Smith's finances cuz I bet there is something fishy there.

...When oh when will LE start arresting people like the Anthonys and the Smiths? Isn't lying to LE a crime? If we don't make an example out of them, people will continue to exploit tragedy.

...And finally, this is a wacky thought. Remember how TS posted on surrogate boards before this happened? Remember how she would try to talk teenagers into being a surrogate and also asked if they would do insemination? Now think of a medical exam room in a doctor's office. Now of a room in a colon cleaning office. Hmmm,, so so similar. Perhaps TS business also dabbles in a little insemination. A girl looking for money, any guy willing to give up some sperm, a couple desperate for a baby and a little fee for the middleman. I don't know, but stranger things have happened.

Anyway, my own opinion. This is a great site. Thanks for letting me participate.

 

[Elphaba]

Sorry haven't gone through all the posts so not sure if these are on here yet. But here is a link to more photographs. He looks like he is doing well in my eyes besides that one photograph. No one can really be sure and I don't know much about babies yet, but he is just so adorable I can't see a soul hurting him.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/New-Pics-81822177.html

The pic of him lying on the bed with what looks like a book, looks so much like an old baby pic of my oldest son when he was a baby, that I had to do a double take! My heart just melts for this child... please, please, please let him be okay.

 

[BeanE]

I think so too and for what ever reason, they started trying to have her come back. My thinking is that Logan filed the kidnapping charges and then she wrote the text about killing Gabriel. She told the Smiths about him filing and they panicked and called Janet. Maybe Elizabeth at that point decided she was not coming back as she was already on the run. I seriously think the original plan was to go into hiding like the Smith's suggested. Then Logan stepped in. I think Elizabeth is more upset about Logan stepping in messing with her plans than how he is as a father. She was upset back in December early when he would not sign papers.

I believe Elizabeth was really set on adopting Gabriel out whether talked into or not but my fear is that when adoption was not working out smoothly, then what did she do?

So sad and I sure hope Gabriel is found soon safe.

The sequence of events was:

Dec 26 Sat

- Tammi calls Janet. Janet calls Elizabeth.


Dec 27 Sun

- Eliz texts Logan that she's killed Gabriel. We don't have a time on these texts

- Tammi says Eliz calls her immediately and tells her it's not true, however the date/time on the email from Eliz that was posted on Tammi's FB is Dec 29 in the early evening - when Eliz was in Miami Beach

- Eliz parks car at Motel 6 at about 11:30am, walks across the street to Tornado, buys bus ticket, gets on bus at 1pm

- Logan goes to the police station at 1:05pm

Dec 28 Mon

- emergency custody hearing

- Logan granted full custody

- felony warrant for custodial interference against Eliz is issued


It could the phone call from Janet telling Eliz that the 'change of jurisdiction', adoption, etc, wouldn't work, and to come back to AZ is what set Eliz off.


I'll work on getting the rest of my timeline 'day' posts up today. I'm going slow today lol.

 

[ethonic]

Tammi deserves to have her tail sitting in a jail cell...

I have to say I agree at this time. She lies about important details. I am reading her facebook and someone says even if they go to jail they will support them 100% Is that odd or is it just me? Maybe I need more coffee and am being to judgmental.

 

[iluvmua]

TS or no TS, something bad was bound to happen to Gabriel with EJ as his mother.

I fear the worst at this point.

 

[BeanE]

The pic of him lying on the bed with what looks like a book, looks so much like an old baby pic of my oldest son when he was a baby, that I had to do a double take! My heart just melts for this child... please, please, please let him be okay.

Gabriel is one gorgeous baby, isn't he? Just beautiful.

 

[pghbrandi]

WELCOME kjt300!

 

[kappy50]

TS or no TS, something bad was bound to happen to Gabriel with EJ as his mother.

I fear the worst at this point.

I agree...however, has TS & JS done the right thing in the beginning (call police or DCS) they could have maybe stopped all this from happening and Gabriel would be with his dad.