AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #13

[Gypsy Road]

Logan said this today?? OMG....breaks my heart...I too cried when I saw those pictures....I feel sick

Me too...it was the first time I had read that and my heart just dropped. I so want to believe that he was just blinking or sleepy, but after reading Logan's reaction to seeing the photos I don't know what to think. His daddy would be able to judge those photos much better than us.

 

[SallyManda]

I wonder if anyone has suggested for Logan to visit Elizabeth in jail. Maybe it would send her into a rage and she'd blurt out something useful. It seems to me that if she found a baby smuggling operation or help that there would be some trail online, on her phone, the motel phone, somewhere. Elizabeth planned to get rid of the baby and went to Texas with few of his things, but with plenty of tylenol. I wonder if she chose Texas since we have the reputation of insisting on having a body to charge murder. She planned to get away and disappear and has a pretty good story. A couple whom she doesn't know took the baby. The Smith's had already been set up as a family who could prove that she wanted to adopt her baby out. I find it hard to believe that she ever intended to adopt out Gabriel in the first place. With a shady illegal adoption where Logan could keep trying to get the baby back. Elizabeth didn't want him to even have his clothing and tv much less the baby he wanted to keep. If she couldn't force and control Logan into willingly adopting out the baby then I just can't see her doing anything where he might get him back while she sits in prison for kidnapping.

But why go to Texas to do that? It just doesn't make sense....I really doubt if she killed him it was planned. I would especially have not picked TX....I find them notorious for capital murder cases..I'd go to a state without the Death Penalty.
Phoenix is pretty close to the border anyway if thats where she was eventually headed.

 

[BeanE]

I've taken tons of pics of my son looking like that. A dark hotel room and a flash could easily cause this.

I don't think that's what Gabriel's daddy has in mind, and I think he knows his baby.

 

[not_my_kids]

The rages and violence could be why she was in 5 different foster homes. I've heard of kids going into uncontrollable rages where it takes a couple of adults to get them under control. I'd run from someone who broke windows, and the article didn't say if she was small or an older child.

She apparently wasn't in her father's care until she was 12, so she would have been a larger child. I can see her chasing an adult. If a 12 year old came at me with any kind of weapon and I didn't have one, I'd run. Or run rather than hurt them.

 

[b4e]

I'm not BeanE, but you can comment on posts made to the page of someone related to the case. Do not directly quote it, give a link, and don't give the name of the person leaving the comment or link to the page of the person that left it.

Clear as mud, huh? LOL.

Also, according to Hoppyfrog, no screenshots.

 

[txsvicki]

But why go to Texas to do that? It just doesn't make sense....I really doubt if she killed him it was planned. I would especially have not picked TX....
Phoenix is pretty close to the border..

Maybe her first plan was to slip over into Mexico and the region she wanted was closer to San Antonio.

 

[time]

I can't..not in a million years. I've lost a child (he was actually about Gabe's age), but I can not imagine being in his shoes, no. I believe the 'not knowing' would be worse than anything to be honest. Usually a parent won't think the worse until it's proven to them. That's why it scares me that he believes EJ to absolutely be capable of harming Gabe...and seems to be losing hope. Sadly, I bet he has a pretty good idea of whether EJ was telling him the truth on that text msg...... jmo tho

Well, I don't know ... I don't think you can say a parent will or won't think the worst. I had a sister die, not nearly that young, but I know how my mom not only reacted but still reacts decades later. Her grief got the best of her. I am not in any way thinking I know more than Logan, but I do know he has to prepare himself for the worst. I don't want to say any more because I don't think this is an appropriate topic to be analytical about or start giving more examples or whatever. Blessings to Logan and his family, the pain must be piercing.

 

[SallyManda]

I don't think that's what Gabriel's daddy has in mind, and I think he knows his baby.

Im not saying he doesn't know his baby..but I am saying its perfectly reasonable that these pictures may be due to a flash in a dark hotel room..
I'd show you some of my baby but I've deleted them all after I put them on my computer.

I have many of myself like that too.

 

[SallyManda]

Maybe her first plan was to slip over into Mexico and the region she wanted was closer to San Antonio.

Yes..but she could have done it first and been LONG GONE into Mexico before the custody was even handed over.

 

[Gypsy Road]

The rages and violence could be why she was in 5 different foster homes. I've heard of kids going into uncontrollable rages where it takes a couple of adults to get them under control. I'd run from someone who broke windows, and the article didn't say if she was small or an older child.

I wonder if any of the foster parents will ever come forward with stories about her. Prolly not. They prolly want to remain out of the public eye. I wonder how far back her violent behavior goes.

I thought EJ's father died before she was 12. Maybe I have that wrong. That's why I said smaller child, but I guess no matter what the size of the child - if an uncontrollable child is chasing you with a plunger you might run.

ETA - Sorry...got that wrong about her father dying before 12 (saw that after reading further).

 

[trudysplace]

If LE officially ends up classifying this case as a "homicide" instead of a missing person's case, is it possible they could essentially go after TPS and JS somehow for indirectly being co-conspirators in a murder? I know this is probably a long shot, but just thought I'd ask anyway. My background is in psychology/sociology, not law. Any legal eagles here?

No lawyer here. Legal background yes. Definitely a homicide case. Cases have been won without a body. EJ has already stated she killed him. IMO, the Smiths were the co-conspirators which ultimately resulted in the dire situation of LE searching for both a live baby and a dead baby.

 

[TearsforCaylee]

(snipped)

Tempe, Ariz., police Friday released the photographs of Gabriel taken by Johnson in the same Texas hotel room in hopes it would help them find the missing baby.

Although Gabriel appears to be healthy and active, lying on a bed with toys and a pacifier, investigators fear that Gabriel is holding a medicine dropper in two of the photos.

"Elizabeth told me to give him a bottle in about an hour and then her exact words were to, 'Give him more medicine if he started crying to shut him up,'" Urias said.

"Gabriel wasn't acting like a normal baby," she said. "He was acting scared, he didn't want to play. He acted like he was sad."

The photographs were discovered on Johnson's camera following her arrest Dec. 29 in Miami.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/baby-gabriel-johnsons-babysitter-speaks-photos-released/story?id=9587297

It appears as if even LE was secretly alarmed by this at one point ... I am getting way emotional over all this

 

[time]

She could give a description, she could describe how she met them, she could convey everything they talked about, she could describe their clothing, she could convey any mannerisms they have, she could convey whatever they may have said about what city they live in, what kind of house they have, whether they have pets or a boat or a summer home or other children. I could go on and on. But... bottom line is, she has not told them everything she can. She has not told them *anything* she can.

Unless you think LE is lying when they say she has only asked for water and to go to the bathroom.

I've tried to explain my reasoning everyway I know how. I'm leaving now

 

[SallyManda]

(snipped)

Tempe, Ariz., police Friday released the photographs of Gabriel taken by Johnson in the same Texas hotel room in hopes it would help them find the missing baby.

Although Gabriel appears to be healthy and active, lying on a bed with toys and a pacifier, investigators fear that Gabriel is holding a medicine dropper in two of the photos.

"Elizabeth told me to give him a bottle in about an hour and then her exact words were to, 'Give him more medicine if he started crying to shut him up,'" Urias said.

"Gabriel wasn't acting like a normal baby," she said. "He was acting scared, he didn't want to play. He acted like he was sad."

The photographs were discovered on Johnson's camera following her arrest Dec. 29 in Miami.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/baby-gabriel-johnsons-babysitter-speaks-photos-released/story?id=9587297

It appears as if even LE was secretly alarmed by this at one point ... I am getting way emotional over all this

Ok Im going to bed..I still just think its not weird for a baby with boogers (probably ill) and teething to look droopy and be given medicine.
She was also probably trying to keep him quiet anyway.
Is LE alarmed or are the papers sensational? I'm a bit more worried about the horrid text message that was sent.

 

[captdj]

But why go to Texas to do that? It just doesn't make sense....I really doubt if she killed him it was planned. I would especially have not picked TX....I find them notorious for capital murder cases..I'd go to a state without the Death Penalty.
Phoenix is pretty close to the border anyway if thats where she was eventually headed.

I keep thinking the same thing why even that hotel if she had help... she had a meeting somewhere 12/23/09 where did she go and return in under 2 hours.... If she was getting help would it be a shelter for battered women?? Maybe so I went online and found one that is very close to the hotel....

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...38366,-98.596416&spn=0.07572,0.15398&t=h&z=13


Now if there are any cams on Huebner rd that might show her car that day...

We need to track EJ from about morning 12/26 to noon 12/27... business cams facing the main rds from her hotel may be possible...

 

[b4e]

Here is what Hoppyfrog said about social networking sites:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4698749&postcount=194"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, missing since 12-26-09 thread #13[/ame]

 

[Mels3kidz]

Oh Lord BeanE, I hadn't read where Logan said that! That's just heartbreaking....I've looked at that pic and gone back and forth about the reason for Gabriel appearing that way. Logan would know though, he has seen him sleepy/hungry/sick I imagine and for him to say he has never seen Gabriel that way before....just gives me cold chills..[/QUOTE]


This is Mountain Cedar season in Texas. I don't know if they have mountain cedar in AZ but it is a miserable time for allergies. That could explain why he looks that way.

The 1st time my mother-in-law experienced it she thought that she was having a heart attack, we actually had to take her to the ER. If it would make an adult feel like that imagine how miserable it would make a little baby.

Melissa

 

[SallyManda]

We need to track EJ from about morning 12/26 to noon 12/27... business cams facing the main rds from her hotel may be possible...

Do red light cameras only go off when someone runs a light? Wonder if they had those there.

 

[BeanE]

Ask BeanE

Our mod, hoppyfrog, just posted about that today. You can find hoppy's posts by using Advanced Search, and hoppyfrog as the username. A keyword of social should bring the post right up.

 

[mamaeb]

On the facebook page a poster "JH" posted under the 'just fans' section about tammi hurting her child. ..slamming a door on their head....



http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tammi...ters-SmithGabriel-Johnson/249331974425?ref=ts

I am not sure what I can share about this info (as I was also told this by someone)... but see it is now posted there.