AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #15

[BeanE]

I am in no way trying to detract from the current line of thinking going on right now, but I wanted to do this for those who are still hung up on the medicine cup. The medicine cup we have come to think is the one he has holds 15mL of fluid (at least measures that much). So, I have a little medicine cup that has 15mL (3tsp), and I put my daughters Children's Tylenol and Children's Motrin in the cup (both the doses are for 24months/2years). It measured to the 15mL line on my cup. Then, I sat a nipple on top and attempted (very crudely) to show how much fluid filled the nipple. I think it is pretty obvious that if there was medication in that cup, it would be enough to make him very sick/kill him. I know we can't determine what is in there, or if at this point it really matters, but I wanted to "see" the amount of fluid we're looking at. Maybe it's V8 Splash. I give that diluted to my kids sometimes. Here goes. I'm hoping these are clickable images so you can see them larger if you choose to.

I would most definitely send that one in. Good work, kissdegirl.

 

[not_my_kids]

I agree...just catching up...so in reading, can I assume all the ws's here believe she gave up the bay for adoption or some underground agency in SA. ????

I believe that Gabe is missing and there are many different possibilities. At this point, that is all I believe. But everything needs to be looked at, regardless of personal belief.

 

[BeanE]

Baby Gabriel's father plans vigil for his son
Posted on January 22, 2010 at 11:24 AM
Updated today at 12:01 PM

Logan McQueary and his family and friends plan to gather at Chaparral Park in Scottsdale on Sunday evening.

The vigil will start at 6 p.m. McQueary's son, Gabriel Johnson, disappeared after Christmas while in his mother's custody in Texas.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/nation...old-vigil-on-Sunday-for-his-son-82400207.html

 

[OneLove]

I agree...just catching up...so in reading, can I assume all the ws's here believe she gave up the bay for adoption or some underground agency in SA. ????

In the beginning, I was just sure of this, mostly because of the smugness of the Smiths.

Now it doesn't seem so simple. Might, might not. Hoping Gabe is laughing somewhere and being loved.

 

[Prof]

Prof, I think i see now what you are saying about the dates.

If she did place the ad on the 8th, it ended up in the police report taken early a.m of the 10th:

maybe at that time (8th) she intended to try to stay around and make a life with Gabe and hope that Logan would come back. Maybe something happened that night that made her fly into a rage (bipolar manic phase?) and want to hurt Logan.

Maybe it was something as simple and innocuous as she was sorting through stuff (again, manic bipolar phase?) and came upon the phone number TS had given her on that flight months ago, and she started thinking about just making a new start, gave TS a call, and made a quick about face on her plans.

Yes, and you made an excellent point previously as to why the ad would come up at all in a police report that detailed the incident where EJ took the baby to the Smiths and called the police saying Logan was hiding him (if I recall that is what happened) --

So let's see the police were called and somehow they found Gabriel at the Smiths - (do we know how?) a few hours after the missing report
Somehow at the Smith's or in EJ's report?

The police were given the information that EJ had placed an ad for a nanny some time before that -- hmmn

Why would that come up UNLESS IMO the Smiths had something to do with the ad -- maybe just maybe the Smiths called EJ from that ad to offer to babysit -- you know for that diaper practice JS stated Tammi was in need of? and that might explain why the ad would be mentioned at all

JMO!

 

[BeanE]

Prof, I think i see now what you are saying about the dates.

If she did place the ad on the 8th, it ended up in the police report taken early a.m of the 10th:

maybe at that time (8th) she intended to try to stay around and make a life with Gabe and hope that Logan would come back. Maybe something happened that night that made her fly into a rage (bipolar manic phase?) and want to hurt Logan.

Maybe it was something as simple and innocuous as she was sorting through stuff (again, manic bipolar phase?) and came upon the phone number TS had given her on that flight months ago, and she started thinking about just making a new start, gave TS a call, and made a quick about face on her plans.

I've wondered if that ad was maybe related to the start of the argument. Maybe Logan didn't like the idea of a nanny moving in before Eliz had a job, and having to pay for food etc for the nanny.

Or maybe Eliz didn't intend to get a job, but just didn't want to be around Gabriel during the day, and that led to the argument.

 

[BeanE]

I agree...just catching up...so in reading, can I assume all the ws's here believe she gave up the bay for adoption or some underground agency in SA. ????

No, all opinions are welcome here.

 

[OneLove]

Yes, and you made an excellent point previously as to why the ad would come up at all in a police report that detailed the incident where EJ took the baby to the Smiths and called the police saying Logan was hiding him (if I recall that is what happened) --

So let's see the police were called and somehow they found Gabriel at the Smiths - (do we know how?) a few hours after the missing report
Somehow at the Smith's or in EJ's report?

The police were given the information that EJ had placed an ad for a nanny some time before that -- hmmn

Why would that come up UNLESS IMO the Smiths had something to do with the ad -- maybe just maybe the Smiths called EJ from that ad to offer to babysit -- you know for that diaper practice JS stated Tammi was in need of? and that might explain why the ad would be mentioned at all
JMO!

Yes, could have happened that way. I just tend to think that would have been a HUGE coincidence, given that those 2 had already supposedly met months ago. I also have a hard time convincing myself that TS trolls Craigslist looking for nanny ads to respond to. That's a pretty big metropolitan area! There are so many other easier and safer ways to get diaper practice, like serving as a foster parent.

 

[dnrslucky1]

I just did a national search on Craigs List using the words, adopt baby.

I found this http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/vnn/1520463333.html

I am sure there are many more.

 

[Prof]

Yes, could have happened that way. I just tend to think that would have been a HUGE coincidence, given that those 2 had already supposedly met months ago. I also have a hard time convincing myself that TS trolls Craigslist looking for nanny ads to respond to. That's a pretty big metropolitan area! There are so many other easier and safer ways to get diaper practice, like serving as a foster parent.

IMO TS might have been trolling to find a way to get that baby sis or brother for H that the Smith's have discussed

I have a hard time convincing myself that anything TS says is true, yet we do know that EJ placed an ad for help with her baby --and that WAS the day before it is known that TS and EJ had contact ---TS might be lying about meeting EJ in an airport -- that seems coincidental too -- meeting in an airport in another state when they were from the same town, and it just so happens that EJ has a baby that she wants to give away and TS is looking for an unconventional adoption? Has LE or anyone credible corroborated this story about the airport meeting

In addition, and I will go find the link, TS came out of some LE interview or LD test stating something about when she first met EJ she helped her fill out some custody paperwork (refering to CC bungle)

Edit: here's the link and quote

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/so...ZWBC0ifjg.cspx
"I made a poor decision back when I met Elizabeth," said Smith. "I helped her (Elizabeth) file her paperwork so she could get her child support and things like that. There was another name put on there and I helped her (Elizabeth) fill out that paperwork, and because of that it obviously doesn't make me look good."

IMO TS' history would prevent her from the normal process of adoption, and possibly the same is true for foster care IMO lol

 

[NewMommy09]

I agree...just catching up...so in reading, can I assume all the ws's here believe she gave up the bay for adoption or some underground agency in SA. ????

I can't speak for everyone. But I alternate back and forth quite frequently between he is not alive and he is alive somewhere. I think many of us do.

Your post got me thinking on the underground/B.W.shelter theory. Could EJ have gone to SA to do this because she had a restraining order against HER at one time from Logan, and she was afraid if she went to a place like this in AZ, they could more easily find that out and refuse to help her??? Just a thought.

 

[NewMommy09]

IMO TS might have been trolling to find a way to get that baby sis or brother for H that the Smith's have discussed

I have a hard time convincing myself that anything TS says is true, yet we do know that EJ placed an ad for help with her baby --the day before it is known that TS and EJ had contact ---TS might be lying about meeting EJ in an airport -- that seems coincidental too -- meeting in an airport in another state when they were from the same town, and it just so happens that EJ has a baby that she wants to give away and TS is looking for an unconventional adoption? Has LE or anyone credible corroborated this story about the airport meeting

In addition, and I will go find the link, TS came out of some LE interview or LD test stating something about when she first met EJ she helped her fill out some custody paperwork (refering to CC bungle)

IMO TS' history would prevent her from the normal process of adoption, and possibly the same is true for foster care IMO lol

BBM - The Smith's have even contradicted themselves on this point. Will ETA a link for reference.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/11/earlyshow/main6081837.shtml
Snip: "We spent ten years building a successful business here (in Scottsdale)," Jack Smith said, "and, for us to throw that away, or even the thoughts of throwing that away for someone we had known for nine days, that's ludicrous. No, absolutely not."
End Snip

I realize that if they had nothing to do with Johnson after TPS met her in the airport, up until Dec. 8th or 9th, that might be what he meant. But I still find it interesting.

 

[BeanE]

The reason LE was there was because when Logan refused to sign the papers, Eliz called LE and said he had kidnapped Gabriel and she didn't know where they were.

Sequence of events as best I've been able to determine:

Tammi comes and picks up Gabe. Stays 4 hours. Leaves with Gabe.

Eliz calls Logan at work and tells him Gabe is already with his future adoptive parents and he has to sign the papers. Logan refuses.

Eliz calls LE and says Logan has kidnapped Gabe and she doesn't know where they are.

6 hours later (3:30am) Gabriel is found at the Smiths.

It could be that Eliz told LE that she and Logan argued the day before about the nanny ad, and that is why she thought he supposedly kidnapped Gabriel.

I imagine that eventually Eliz had to tell the truth - that Gabe was at the Smiths. There had been another incident where Eliz hid Gabe, right? So when LE contacted Logan, I'd imagine he told them about it, and that LE pressured Eliz to cough up the truth.

Poor Gabriel. Poor Logan. She must have been hell to live with.

 

[DairyGirl]

IMO TS might have been trolling to find a way to get that baby sis or brother for H that the Smith's have discussed

I have a hard time convincing myself that anything TS says is true, yet we do know that EJ placed an ad for help with her baby --the day before it is known that TS and EJ had contact ---TS might be lying about meeting EJ in an airport -- that seems coincidental too -- meeting in an airport in another state when they were from the same town, and it just so happens that EJ has a baby that she wants to give away and TS is looking for an unconventional adoption? Has LE or anyone credible corroborated this story about the airport meeting

In addition, and I will go find the link, TS came out of some LE interview or LD test stating something about when she first met EJ she helped her fill out some custody paperwork (refering to CC bungle)

IMO TS' history would prevent her from the normal process of adoption, and possibly the same is true for foster care IMO lol

It wouldn't surprise me if TPS answered EJ's ad on Craigslist. In it she said she had no family, may be a red flag. One of the reasons I think that is early on, on NG, JS made a comment about only knowing EJ for a few weeks. That may have been true. TPS may have been looking for her own nanny and came across that ad and thought it was an open door. I don't know but the airport story never rang true to me. As far as the realtor associated with that number, I just think it was an old ad. I've been in my apt for about 6 months and still get calls for the people that had my number before.
I just think the Smiths were looking for an easy way to adopt, back door perhaps. In her ad EJ did sound pretty desperate and obviously not a lot of money.

 

[dnrslucky1]

BeanE

I imagine that eventually Eliz had to tell the truth - that Gabe was at the Smiths. There had been another incident where Eliz hid Gabe, right? So when LE contacted Logan, I'd imagine he told them about it, and that LE pressured Eliz to cough up the truth.

If this were true and Eliz gave up the truth at this time, she may be telling the truth now, just not everything.

 

[TXHOPE]

Oops, I am editing that last photo post, it's Children's Tylenol and Children's Motrin, 2 year old dose. If she also put Children's Benadryl in there, it could another 5mL or so.

Does anyone know the order the photos were taken in? If the pictures of him holding the medicine cup and the one where his eyes are droopy and he's wearing the hat are the last ones, then i'm worried. The other pictures he looks fine, healthy in my opinion.

 

[Prof]

BBM - The Smith's have even contradicted themselves on this point. Will ETA a link for reference.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/11/earlyshow/main6081837.shtml
Snip: "We spent ten years building a successful business here (in Scottsdale)," Jack Smith said, "and, for us to throw that away, or even the thoughts of throwing that away for someone we had known for nine days, that's ludicrous. No, absolutely not."
End Snip

I realize that if they had nothing to do with Johnson after TPS met her in the airport, up until Dec. 8th or 9th, that might be what he meant. But I still find it interesting.

Yes that too! Thank you! You rock! See the post you replied to of mine because I added the link where TS is quoted to have stated that they had just met EJ too!

 

[OneLove]

I've wondered if that ad was maybe related to the start of the argument. Maybe Logan didn't like the idea of a nanny moving in before Eliz had a job, and having to pay for food etc for the nanny.

Or maybe Eliz didn't intend to get a job, but just didn't want to be around Gabriel during the day, and that led to the argument.

Lol, I just typed a hypothetical conversation between Logan and EJ that supported this angle, then lost it in a glitch. But, yes, I could totally see an argument that night based on Logan possibly complaining that EJ doesn't take care of Gabe and EJ and spitefully coming up with that as a solution, in the *****iest way possible of course. And i can also see that conversation spiralling out of control and into "he's mine mine mine, you have no legal standing, you can't tell me what i can and can't do, get out, get out" As she gets more and more into a rage, Logan wants to leave with Gabe to protect him and she says "go ahead and take him! I'll report you for kidnapping, you'll never get him, never ", all of this in a very angry rage of course. (oh geez, in my younger years and line of work, I actually heard way too many of these conversations for real, its way too easy for me to visualize this)

Maybe Logan told her then that was the last straw and that he would file for paternity. Maybe after Logan left, she dug up TS's old phone number she'd been given months before and put Gabriel into hiding the very next day. If she was manic/frantic when she saw TS, maybe TS really did think she was abused.

If so, TS should have been heads up when the police showed up at 3:30 a.m. and they found out EJ had filed kidnap charges against Logan. :slap:

 

[redfish]

In one interview, Logan dropped a pearl into the state of mind of EJ. imo

He said (paraphrasing here) that she told him that if they were not going to be together as a family, he (gabe) was not going to live with either one of them. She wanted him in a family. Her actions indicate she meant it. That is one of the reasons I have felt he is alive somewhere. Personally, I see that as a concern to her because of her own past. Gotta admit though I am worried about the accidental death angle now myself.

 

[time]

IMO TS might have been trolling to find a way to get that baby sis or brother for H that the Smith's have discussed

I have a hard time convincing myself that anything TS says is true, yet we do know that EJ placed an ad for help with her baby --and that WAS the day before it is known that TS and EJ had contact ---TS might be lying about meeting EJ in an airport -- that seems coincidental too -- meeting in an airport in another state when they were from the same town, and it just so happens that EJ has a baby that she wants to give away and TS is looking for an unconventional adoption? Has LE or anyone credible corroborated this story about the airport meeting

In addition, and I will go find the link, TS came out of some LE interview or LD test stating something about when she first met EJ she helped her fill out some custody paperwork (refering to CC bungle)

Edit: here's the link and quote

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/so...ZWBC0ifjg.cspx
"I made a poor decision back when I met Elizabeth," said Smith. "I helped her (Elizabeth) file her paperwork so she could get her child support and things like that. There was another name put on there and I helped her (Elizabeth) fill out that paperwork, and because of that it obviously doesn't make me look good."

IMO TS' history would prevent her from the normal process of adoption, and possibly the same is true for foster care IMO lol

Well, at the very least there was a ton going on between the time Elizabeth placed that nanny ad on the 8th and 3:30 in the morning when they found Gabriel!

Not neccessarily in this order

Fight with Logan
EJ places 2-3 ads in 2 different places
EJ connects with Smith's (again or for the first time)
Smiths spend 4 hrs with Elizabeth
EJ decides to adopt Gabriel out
Paperwork is drawn up (POA)
EJ calls Logan about Adopting
EJ reports Logan stole Gabriel
LE find Gabriel at Smith's (6 hrs later - later than what I'm not sure)