AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #15

[NewMommy09]

I have emails out to a few reporters asking that question. I thought they might know what order they were in originally. I will post the nanosecond I hear back.

Thank you so much for working on this. The pictures have been bothering me for awhile. I have a lot of questions about them. And dates or some kind of order will certainly help us. :blowkiss:

 

[dnrslucky1]

Actually, this concerns me more because it shows that EJ would give up the location of Gabriel to save her own behind. I am sure that LE told her if she didn't say where Gabriel was she would go to jail. Obviously she didn't want to go to jail then. Why the willingness now when all she has to do is give up his location and may be able to walk soon?

But, if she did answer an add on Craigs List to a couple wanting to adopt and this couple would do anything for a baby, even if illegal, she may not know where he is.

Just say the deal they made was to meet in a place like a seldom used park. Agreed ahead of time was no names to be used including the baby.

In EJs mind this would be a closed adoption, she would not be able to change her mind and Logan could never find him.

In the new couples mind, they got a baby that they have longed for, no strings attached. All they had to do was keep their mouth shut.

IMO, EJ did not hesitate to use CL and knew her way around on the site.

I still believe Gabriel is alive. I hope whomever has him is loving him, he is beautiful.

 

[NewMommy09]

You're right! That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, does it? Now I'm COMPLETELY lost in all of this. OMG, yet another CA scenario ... it's up, then it's down, ... no, I lied, it's really sideways. I know what I'm doing ... uh ... no I don't. I'm sane at the moment, but then again, I'm not level ... Maalox, anyone? :banghead:

TearsforCaylee,
I'm so sorry for confusing you. That ad was placed on 12.08.09. My question was due to my own confusion when we were questioning if the dates were european (meaning 08/12/09 instead) and somehow, I got that mixed up in my head and started thinking it was posted on 12/12/09. That was completely MY brainfart and I'm so sorry for dragging you into it. :blushing:

 

[BeanE]

In one interview, Logan dropped a pearl into the state of mind of EJ. imo

He said (paraphrasing here) that she told him that if they were not going to be together as a family, he (gabe) was not going to live with either one of them. She wanted him in a family. Her actions indicate she meant it. That is one of the reasons I have felt he is alive somewhere. Personally, I see that as a concern to her because of her own past. Gotta admit though I am worried about the accidental death angle now myself.

Somebody mentioned this quote earlier today and I didn't have it handy then. I just came across it when I was looking for something else, so linking it in.

MCQUEARY: She basically told me that if we`re not going to be together and have a family, then neither of us are going to have him. I said, Well, where`s Gabriel? And she said, You know where he`s at, I already told you. And I asked, Where is he? And she said that, I stuffed him in a diaper bag and he suffocated, and I put him in a diaper bag and put him in a dumpster.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/19/ng.01.html

 

[BeanE]

Well, at the very least there was a ton going on between the time Elizabeth placed that nanny ad on the 8th and 3:30 in the morning when they found Gabriel!

Not neccessarily in this order

Fight with Logan
EJ places 2-3 ads in 2 different places
EJ connects with Smith's (again or for the first time)
Smiths spend 4 hrs with Elizabeth
EJ decides to adopt Gabriel out
Paperwork is drawn up (POA)
EJ calls Logan about Adopting
EJ reports Logan stole Gabriel
LE find Gabriel at Smith's (6 hrs later - later than what I'm not sure)

Not exactly a typical couple of days in the life of the average American.

 

[redfish]

What sane couple would participate in all of that? This case is so unbelievable -- the paper trail they have left in the past gives me hope that they left a paper or electronic trail all of the way to finding Gabriel

Looking at the time line again today, IMO that is really more probable than I orginally thought. I don't think the Smith's are the smartest pois we've ever seen! That gives some hope. If they did particpate in the actual disappearence LE may be able to pick up the trail. If EJ did manage to contact someone in the "underground" he may not be traceable. If the unthinkable happened I don't think EJ was able to think fast enough to cover completely. (fingers crossed)

 

[BeanE]

I am just not sure why Logan would have a problem with EJ getting a job and placing an ad for a nanny -- seems like a positive step to me

It seems more likely that TS met EJ through the nanny ad on craiglist --IMO

Like I said, they would have to pay for food etc for the nanny, up until Eliz got a job. It's an extra expense. And/or he may not have liked the idea of a stranger moving into his home.

I'm unclear on why Tammi would be answering a nanny ad. Has she done nanny work before or was she interested in it?

 

[time]

What sane couple would participate in all of that? This case is so unbelievable -- the paper trail they have left in the past gives me hope that they left a paper or electronic trail all of the way to finding Gabriel

I'm shaking my head (again)... unbelievable. My thought is just that some people are accustomed to getting away with things.

I still suspect that LE/FBI has far more info on all these interactions than we know. I suspect that they did call EJ from the nanny ad and that left the first trail.

 

[NewMommy09]

Dearest Mods,

We have 15 threads (soon to be 16) for Gabriel Johnson with over 12,500 posts and hundreds of thousands of views. I think many of us would really appreciate a sub-forum for this case.

If that is not possible, could someone please post the criteria needed to do so. Thank you so much.

 

[BeanE]

Quote snipped for space.

Yes, Prof.
This is even more hinky than what Jack Smith said about "someone we've only known for nine days". With that, I can see how HE would say that as he wasn't the one who met her and they reportedly didn't have anything to do with her til early December.
But Tammi's statement sounds like a major slip up that she wasn't even aware she made. I can't see her using the word "met" as a mis-speak.
And off this particular subject, but since we have the above snip from the article you posted: How was TPS helping EJ get child support by filing paperwork with another person's name listed as a possible father??? That makes not a lick of sense.

I'm not sure it was a slip up rather than her usual articulation problem. I take the whole thing as they met in the airport and didn't get to know each other until Dec 8 and after.

I tend to stick with Occam's Razor, but they could have just met on Dec 8/9.

ETA: I love the thing about helping Eliz get child support. Saint Tammi.

 

[NewMommy09]

Like I said, they would have to pay for food etc for the nanny, up until Eliz got a job. It's an extra expense. And/or he may not have liked the idea of a stranger moving into his home.

I'm unclear on why Tammi would be answering a nanny ad. Has she done nanny work before or was she interested in it?

BBM - IMO, but I think the theory is that she was scouting for a baby. May not make much sense to browse nanny ads, but then again, the Smith's don't make much sense period. Another scenario is someone acquainted with TPS found the ad and thought EJ seemed desperate. Just theories.

 

[DairyGirl]

But, if she did answer an add on Craigs List to a couple wanting to adopt and this couple would do anything for a baby, even if illegal, she may not know where he is.

Just say the deal they made was to meet in a place like a seldom used park. Agreed ahead of time was no names to be used including the baby.

In EJs mind this would be a closed adoption, she would not be able to change her mind and Logan could never find him.

In the new couples mind, they got a baby that they have longed for, no strings attached. All they had to do was keep their mouth shut.

IMO, EJ did not hesitate to use CL and knew her way around on the site.

I still believe Gabriel is alive. I hope whomever has him is loving him, he is beautiful.

If that is the way she did it there should be some kind of trail. I am concerned that after all this time LE should have found the trail.

 

[NewMommy09]

I'm not sure it was a slip up rather than her usual articulation problem. I take the whole thing as they met in the airport and didn't get to know each other until Dec 8 and after.

I tend to stick with Occam's Razor, but they could have just met on Dec 8/9.

ETA: I love the thing about helping Eliz get child support. Saint Tammi.

You could very well be right. Never before have I followed a case where I didn't have a specific theory based on available information. I feel like a teeter-totter/see-saw. LOL.
Just as I go back and forth on whether I believe baby Gabriel is still alive, I also go back and forth on how much I think the Smith's are involved and to what extent.

But two very basic and indisputable facts that fuel my theory of their involvement:
Police STILL have them named as POI's. And I very much believe LE has FAR more info than we do.
And, the fact that EJ has been charged with CONSPIRACY to commit kidnapping. JMO as always.

 

[Tricia]

The run on sentences, no caps, the greater importance she seems to put on herself (i.e. me and gabriel are fine, instead of Gabriel and I, or I myself am a single female). IMO, I do believe this is a match.

So WHY is she placing a nanny ad 3 days after she gave Gabe to the Smiths???

I want to make sure of something. Are we POSITIVE that she is placing an ad for a nanny? IF NOT then PLEASE do not speculate like it is the truth.

I need someone to please post EXACTLY what has been proven as far as the ads go and what has not.

Please, I don't want to have to shut down this thread and take the time to fix it so make sure we know what is solid and what is speculation.

Momdetective, since you are the main poster on the topic of ads I need you to gather up what is solid and what is speculation and put it in one post so we are all on the same page.

Thank you.
Tricia

 

[redfish]

Like I said, they would have to pay for food etc for the nanny, up until Eliz got a job. It's an extra expense. And/or he may not have liked the idea of a stranger moving into his home.

I'm unclear on why Tammi would be answering a nanny ad. Has she done nanny work before or was she interested in it?

I'm not sure that he did object to that. According to our timeline things happened quickly... if the add was answered right away.. it would be in the MIDDLE of the argument that was already taking place (about something else at that time). IMO

 

[BeanE]

Thanks Newmommy and Prof - those statements sure seem like the Smith's first met Elizabeth last December. If so, why the need for the airport story - I say it could be because they know how hinky it would sound if they replied to a nanny ad and within a day the woman was signing away Power of Attorney to them with regards to her child.

Hmmmm.... maybe Eliz found an agency on the net, who deals in illegal adoptions, and they set her up with TayJay. Then, when Eliz couldn't work thiings out to sever Logan's rights, and couldn't give Gabe to TayJay because Logan would know where Gabe was, then the same agency sent somebody else to Eliz in SA.

 

[NewMommy09]

Sorry Tricia,
I thought my post was clear that it was my opinion that the ads were posted by Elizabeth. I edited that post to remove the speculation part. The nanny ad's have been reported in the news, but we don't have a link to verify that this particular ad is EJ's.

Apologies to all reading here for any confusion. I certainly don't want this thread closed.

 

[Krystylsea]

OT Looks like NG is about Tiger again!eew

 

[not_my_kids]

There is published media saying that the Nanny ad and the dogs for sale ads were posted by Elizabeth. Prof found the article and linked it, and I am currently looking for the video where the reporter panned over to show the screen so the world could see the ads.
I'll post the vid when I find it.

 

[BeanE]

Dearest Mods,

We have 15 threads (soon to be 16) for Gabriel Johnson with over 12,500 posts and hundreds of thousands of views. I think many of us would really appreciate a sub-forum for this case.

If that is not possible, could someone please post the criteria needed to do so. Thank you so much.

I asked Hoppy a few days ago, who said at this point it probably depends on if they can get a mini mod.