AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #2

[Amster]

Grandpa says momster took meds for PPD.....already setting up a defense? Shuttled around to 5 foster homes....I'm already getting angry about what I know is coming.

 

[iluvmua]

I don't think he's in Mexico either. If the Smith's knew where Gabriel is, then they need to stop this mess RIGHT NOW and tell LE where he is.

I don't think Gabriel is anywhere except in Heaven.

 

[smart blonde]

Another possibility, and pure speculation, on my part...

Maybe Tammi and Jack were interested in procuring Gabriel, not for themselves, but for another person or 'couple', illegally. Black market baby selling. Send Elizabeth off to Texas to hand Gabriel off in a park as per their instructions.

Not only will they get money for the 'sale', they have also promised Elizabeth money for the sale. If this is the case, they would do or say anything necessary to cover their tracks, including leading Elizabeth in what to say. They don't want to spend the rest of their lives in prison, and Elizabeth still wants to get her payday.

I'd imagine that there are alot of people out there that can not afford the normal means of legitimate adoption... or, can't pass the scrutiny of a legal adoption process- because of felonies, or because of being sexual offenders, or some other criminal history.

Perhaps Tammi and Jack's interest in babies in not so much to raise the babies themselves, as to make money? Maybe they're baby brokers.

My opinion and speculation only, of course.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Yawn...let me get out the little violin

why not use birth control then?? Or give the baby up when he was born thru a legit adoptioni agency??? I am sick of these sob stories

where was old Bob when all this was happening?? I love when "grandparents" jump in after seeing their offspring get in trouble

excuses excuses.....nothing is an excuse for what this horrible woman did to that baby in his short 8 months...nothing is an excuse to kill him which I fear she did and really nothing is an excuse to give away a baby in a park

:boohoo::boohoo:

I think it's normal for us, as human beings, to try to figure out behavior like this, especially when it is so far removed from our understanding and personal experience. I don't think anyone here would offer it up as an excuse for what she has done.

 

[smart blonde]

Well, jeez....
I'm sorry, I just read in the posts above my last one that the baby broker idea has already been mentioned.

Someday, I will have an original idea, and when I do, you guys will be the first to know, because I will shout it from the rooftops!

Thats what I get for just jumping in without reading the entire thread!

Thanks for putting up with me!

 

[SleuthyMama]

Most everyone has covered the Smith's appearance on NG and how it was rife with inconsistencies but the thing that really rubbed me the wrong way for some reason was that after all that has happened here Jack Smith had the audacity to make the comment that when all was said and done that Gabriel should be back at home with THEM.

I was like WHAT??? Are you for real? This baby has a father who does not want to give him up for adoption! That has been made abundantly clear. And the best part is Logan's story as to what transpired HASN'T CHANGED!!! Whereas the Smiths can't keep their story straight if it came with a level.

 

[Kamille]

Another possibility, and pure speculation, on my part...

Maybe Tammi and Jack were interested in procuring Gabriel, not for themselves, but for another person or 'couple', illegally. Black market baby selling. Send Elizabeth off to Texas to hand Gabriel off in a park as per their instructions.

Not only will they get money for the 'sale', they have also promised Elizabeth money for the sale. If this is the case, they would do or say anything necessary to cover their tracks, including leading Elizabeth in what to say. They don't want to spend the rest of their lives in prison, and Elizabeth still wants to get her payday.

I'd imagine that there are alot of people out there that can not afford the normal means of legitimate adoption... or, can't pass the scrutiny of a legal adoption process- because of felonies, or because of being sexual offenders, or some other criminal history.

Perhaps Tammi and Jack's interest in babies in not so much to raise the babies themselves, as to make money? Maybe they're baby brokers.

My opinion and speculation only, of course.

That thought has been rattling around in the back of my brain for quite some time also. And is definitely another possibility here. Good post. Thanks.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Grandpa says momster took meds for PPD.....already setting up a defense? Shuttled around to 5 foster homes....I'm already getting angry about what I know is coming.

Yeah....you and me both:banghead:

Old Grampa did nothing when he knew what she was like

what next...maybe he will join internet forums for hugs, tea and sympathy

well he will get NONE from me. I am sick of these sad stories..and I am also sick of reporters who can't ask hard questions...why not ask Grampa why people didn't make her take her postpartum meds or else remove the baby from her?? "Rage"?? if she was so full of rage and not taking the meds shame on him and everyone else for doing nothing

 

[iluvmua]

I read on another board that EJ has been thretining Gabe since he was 3 weeks old? Is this true???

and that EJ has been in foster care since she was 3 years old.

does anybody know?

 

[LadyBug99]

How is any of this the grandfather's responsibility??? She is an adult!

 

[danni]

I wonder if she had more money on her when she was found in Miami. She did tell the dad that she would let him know where Gabriel was after she was out of the country.

I THINK I remember reading on the other thread that she did not have any money on her when they arrested her in Florida. So I don't know.

IF there is a mystery couple that has this baby I personally think they are holding this child until some reward money is put out to return him. Some are saying that they may not know that this child has at least a father that cares about him and that he is the subject of a custody battle. I think thats BS, it is on the national news, and I am sure the local news. How could they NOT know unless they live under a rock. Shoot when Baby Abby went missing everyone in our area knew about it. When Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Owenby went missing everyone knew about it in the nation. I know this case is not getting AS much attention but I feel it is still getting enough that these people would know that this child belongs some where other than with them. The whole reward money thing would also be a key if this family gave this girl any money. They may feel like they paid for the "goods" that they have, why would they return it for free? The sad thing, I actually know people with this mentality!

 

[LogicalMinds]

I read on another board that EJ has been thretining Gabe since he was 3 weeks old? Is this true???

and that EJ has been in foster care since she was 3 years old.

does anybody know?

Yes..she has been threatning the baby since he was three weeks old

the father would come home and baby Gabe would be in dirty diapers, unmoved for ? 5 hours they say

Neighbors had heard her and thought she was hitting/beating the baby

she has called Gabe "it" and worse....and made threats his whole short life

she had destroyed things in the apartment...flew into a rage...Logan filed a police report then...

I personally have zero sympathy for any of them...this nasty rageful woman should have had Gabe removed far away from her long ago

 

[iluvmua]

I hope she did not do what that young mom is Albuquerque did this past May.
Kill her child because she did not want the child to grow up like she did.

I would hate to think where this is going to end up but I think we already know the outcome. I hope I am wrong about that. But it's been too long for anybody to have been hiding him or for someone to not come foward with this child.

Everything I've heard about EJ and what she is like, being off her PPD meds, etc. leads me to believe she did end gabe's life.

 

[smart blonde]

How is any of this the grandfather's responsibility??? She is an adult!

The safety of any child one believes to be in danger is everyone's responsibility.

A moral responsibility if not a legal responsibilty.

 

[Kamille]

Okay so let’s try to piece together what TPS has said about EJ’s time in Texas. On Dec 24th she posts on her FB…

Please keep praying for Gabriel and his mommy's safety on the road! She found an underground help in TX. that has given her formula/diapers,Etc. and all the legal formalities...Keep praying for his safety!!!!!!!"

And she has stated that EJ spent 3 days with this “couple” or “underground help“ as she called them on her FB. That would be from Dec 24th, the date of her posting, to Dec 26th? TPS knows she has to justify this comment from her FB, hence the 3 day comment. But EJ is not following this line so it makes absolutely no sense.

EJ is saying that she just met this mysterious couple on the 26th in the park when they approached her because she was upset. So IMO TPS was setting up a scenario that both of them were going “underground” with the FB comment. This would have LE looking for both of them together and would put less urgency on the missing persons report. There’s thousands of missing children out there with non custodial parents. But I think EJ really screwed up the plan with her “impromptu” angry texting to LM about killing the baby. I don’t think that was part of the plan and it all started to unravel from there.

Now the park info is interesting. LE knew that she was with Gabriel in that park early on from a witness or witnesses. And those witnesses would have seen her “crying and distressed” if that were in fact the case. EJ, I would assume, does not have access to the news reports and yet she has verified that she was in a park that day and gave away her baby there so at least that part is most likely true. But that is not a regular neighbourhood park where you take your kids to play on the swings. It’s a picnic and meeting place. It’s where organizations book space to hold events. There are 3 pavilions in the park. You have to reserve and pay for these for your event. It’s also not quite on the beaten track from the hotel EJ was staying at. The directions were posted earlier in thread #1 and it’s a little tricky to find it without directions. So the suggestion that she was just driving around and decided to stop at that park don’t wash with me. By looking at the pictures of the entrance, I can’t see any reason why someone would stop there if they were just trying to take their baby to a park. She was directed to that park IMO. You drive through a gate and up to the parking lot to enter the park. It's not like you just park on a sidestreet and walk to a playground.

And who else would have been in that kind of a park the day after Christmas? Was there an event booked? Wonder how many witnesses actually saw her. Not many I would assume. The park was probably fairly empty which is why they stood out. Even on the google map of it there's only a handful of cars there. Good place to make an illegal baby drop off. Large empty park with no cameras and no neighbours. What was the reason why the couple were in the park anyway? Wonder if anyone has asked her.

And the Smiths on NG getting all giddy about the fact that they had found out the name of this park 3 days after it was officially released by the media was just laughable. Like they’d never heard the name before. I love how he had to pick up the paper to read it off.

 

[iluvmua]

I don't think EJ wanted the Smith's to have him either.

This sounds way too much between Casey Anthony and Melinda D.

 

[LogicalMinds]

How is any of this the grandfather's responsibility??? She is an adult!

Yes...she sure is an adult which is why I hate hearing her called a "girl"

I think we all have a "responsibility" IF we see a rageful, violent woman with a baby that she makes threats about, neglects and when we know she has postpartum depression and is not taking her meds

did Grandpa call the child services?? or baker act her? or call the police?

if not shame on him....and shame on anyone there who didn't do anything
yes I KNOW that the states child protective services are messed up in Florida and probably in Arizona but at least do something...he was right there and knew how she was...

I am sorry but there are so many of these sad cases that could have been prevented! Very frustrating

 

[Amster]

Why she was allowed anywhere near Gabriel after trashing the apt. is criminal!

 

[smart blonde]

Yes..she has been threatning the baby since he was three weeks old

the father would come home and baby Gabe would be in dirty diapers, unmoved for ? 5 hours they say

Neighbors had heard her and thought she was hitting/beating the baby

she has called Gabe "it" and worse....and made threats his whole short life

she had destroyed things in the apartment...flew into a rage...Logan filed a police report then...

I personally have zero sympathy for any of them...this nasty rageful woman should have had Gabe removed far away from her long ago

Thank you for this post, Logical.

After reading this, I have to go with my original feeling, my 'gut' feeling, that she killed this beautiful little boy. She threatened it long enough, she finally carried out her threat.

She is remorseless, and she is a sociopath.

If she did kill him, I hope she gets the death penalty, I really do.

 

[Penelope]

How is any of this the grandfather's responsibility??? She is an adult!

A number of years ago, the wife of a friend of mine went through a post-partum depression -- she was even depressed while she carried the child and had a history of depression. After the child was born, she was in therapy and the family NEVER LEFT HER ALONE WITH THE CHILD -- NEVER. My friend, her parents, everyone did what they could to protect the child. The mother pulled out of it and the child is now about 10 or 11 years old.

I know that everyone's family is different -- but I think that this is an issue that needs to be addressed by today's society. IMO we focus so much on individual rights, rights of adults, etc. that we forget our responsibilities to those who cannot defend or protect themselves

Just my opinion.