AZ - *GRAPHIC* Police officer fired after fatally shooting a wheelchair suspect, Tucson, 29 Nov 2021

[Willow Knight]

As an actual mother of small children I can assure you I'd be vastly more concerned about a police rapid fire shooting in close quarters around my children and me with clearly no time put into assessing the risk to the people around the man vs an elderly man brandishing a knife in a clearly slow moving wheelchair.

Can you imagine the life long trauma of watching someone shot in the back in front of you? He was shot in the BACK while his wheelchair is barely scooting into the store. He literally couldn't walk or run away from the police on his own. He wasn't going to be snatching up kids while he slowly cruises by while being chased by police....

I'd like to add an opinion to this. The officer walked for a time next to the victim. The officer had plenty of time to access the situation, as we have seen in the video, the officer was aware of how slow the wheelchair was moving. The officer knew where the victim was headed, he was walking next to the wheelchair. In fact, at times it appears the officer was in front of the wheelchair.

At any time did the officer even try to stop the wheelchair?

This is not IMO the way true police officers act.

My lands, what if a child was running out the front door.

 

[evilwise]

Something about another, on duty officer arriving on the scene combined with the suspect entering another store flipped some switch in this guy's head. It should be studied.

I can honestly understand the use of force against a suspect who has just threatened store employees with a weapon but the guy should have just been pepper sprayed while he was rolling through the parking lots.

For some reason what had started out as sympathy turned to homicidal violence all at once. That's exactly the type of phenomenon we need to figure out and train cops better on how to deal with - and weed out ones who can't.

 

[modesty blaise]

Still not charged? This lawlessness cannot stand.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

For whatever reason I am unable to watch the video.
Can someone share another’s link and/or another way to watch it again?

TIA.

 

[JayWill]

For whatever reason I am unable to watch the video.
Can someone share another’s link and/or another way to watch it again?

TIA.

You dont want to. It was awful. A man confined to a wheelchair, shot in the back nine times and them the police handcuffed him when he was dead on the ground. I cannot believe that.

 

[TwoLea]

You dont want to. It was awful. A man confined to a wheelchair, shot in the back nine times and them the police handcuffed him when he was dead on the ground. I cannot believe that.

Shot in the back 8 times, a pause to recalculate, and a ninth shot to blow the man's brains out.

 

[JayWill]

Shot in the back 8 times, a pause to recalculate, and a ninth shot to blow the man's brains out.

Ugh!

 

[branmuffin]

There is a sickness in this LEO if they think a disabled person confined to a wheelchair should be shot dead for not complying for a petty crime. As parents we learn to pick our battles. Shoplifting shouldn't end in a death sentence. This is not enforcing the law; it's wanton killing because a lesser mortal didn't comply. Just sickening.

 

[lonetraveler]

I don't live far from where this happened. I don't know why RR couldn't have just knocked him over in the scooter and incapacitated him that way.

Or even used a taser FGS.

 

[neesaki]

Or even used a taser FGS.

Terrible to watch. I don’t understand the officers actions. Did he think the guy had a gun and was getting ready to start shooting when he was going into the other store?

 

[MrsWatson]

Former cop is being charged manslaughter.

Cop charged with manslaughter for shooting wheelchair-bound man

Ryan Remington, 32, a former Tucson, Arizona police officer who gunned down a wheelchair-bound man suspected of stealing a toolbox from Walmart last year has been indicted on manslaughter charges

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[evilwise]

I remember when this happened, I thought it was longer ago than December. <modsnip>

I'm sure that the argument, and probably a sincere one, will be that the officer felt that he needed to protect the employees and customers in the Walmart store and that he was trained to neutralize deadly threats. Even though he followed the guy across a parking lot and interacted with him I'm sure he didn't consider for one second that being shot once or pepper sprayed would almost definitely not have caused him to go berserk and leap out of his chair. I really think this one is a case of police training to blame.

 

[branmuffin]

I remember when this happened, I thought it was longer ago than December. <modsnip>

I'm sure that the argument, and probably a sincere one, will be that the officer felt that he needed to protect the employees and customers in the Walmart store and that he was trained to neutralize deadly threats. Even though he followed the guy across a parking lot and interacted with him I'm sure he didn't consider for one second that being shot once or pepper sprayed would almost definitely not have caused him to go berserk and leap out of his chair. I really think this one is a case of police training to blame.

I think it has more to do with poor screening of potential hires. This cop seemed to be more incensed over the fact the disabled man "did not comply". That last shot was overkill. He should never wear a uniform again, ever.

 

[evilwise]

I think it has more to do with poor screening of potential hires. This cop seemed to be more incensed over the fact the disabled man "did not comply". That last shot was overkill. He should never wear a uniform again, ever.

He had been noncompliant for some time as they walked with him across the parking lot. He fired to prevent him from going into Walmart. If that was a rationalization or if it was legitimate concern for the safety of the people inside is the factor that will presumably be argued in court.

 

[branmuffin]

He had been noncompliant for some time as they walked with him across the parking lot. He fired to prevent him from going into Walmart. If that was a rationalization or if it was legitimate concern for the safety of the people inside is the factor that will presumably be argued in court.

He could have just as easily used a taser. Or pepper spray. He could have knocked over the scooter. He could have followed him into the store and advised the employees to stay away from him. All interactions with law enforcement needn't be dealt with within minutes. You don't shoot and kill someone for shoplifting and you most definitely don't shoot someone nine times for shoplifting when unaccounted individuals could have come into the line of fire. If that cop 'feared for his life' he should have pursued a different form of employment. It's incumbent on a police officer to ensure his actions do not endanger the general public. This guy was so focused on the fact the deceased didn't comply he shot him in the back. NINE TIMES. There is no timeline to de-escalate a situation.

Tuscon is one of 100 large cities in the US who have incorporated all 8 CAN'T WAIT policies. You can find out what they are when perusing their own website. TPD is a progressive police department

Remington failed to use 4 of the 8 tenets of the 8CantWait policies. I'm surprised he wasn't charged sooner and I'm disappointed he was charged with manslaughter and not second degree murder. Here is an article about Chris Magnus, Tuscon Police chief, who has subsequently taken on the role of Head of Customs and Border Control.

Former Tucson police chief Chris Magnus describes achievements, challenges of his tenure

Magnus is moving to D.C. for his new job as head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection. While he's proud of the work Tucson police did while he was chief,

tucson.com

 

[evilwise]

He could have just as easily used a taser. Or pepper spray. He could have knocked over the scooter. He could have followed him into the store and advised the employees to stay away from him. All interactions with law enforcement needn't be dealt with within minutes. You don't shoot and kill someone for shoplifting and you most definitely don't shoot someone nine times for shoplifting when unaccounted individuals could have come into the line of fire. If that cop 'feared for his life' he should have pursued a different form of employment. It's incumbent on a police officer to ensure his actions do not endanger the general public. This guy was so focused on the fact the deceased didn't comply he shot him in the back. NINE TIMES. There is no timeline to de-escalate a situation.

Tuscon is one of 100 large cities in the US who have incorporated all 8 CAN'T WAIT policies. You can find out what they are when perusing their own website. TPD is a progressive police department

Remington failed to use 4 of the 8 tenets of the 8CantWait policies. I'm surprised he wasn't charged sooner and I'm disappointed he was charged with manslaughter and not second degree murder. Here is an article about Chris Magnus, Tuscon Police chief, who has subsequently taken on the role of Head of Customs and Border Control.

Former Tucson police chief Chris Magnus describes achievements, challenges of his tenure

Magnus is moving to D.C. for his new job as head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection. While he's proud of the work Tucson police did while he was chief,

tucson.com

I had to go through multiple levels to read these "8 Can't Wait" principles and the only one I can see he definitely failed to do is "Requires Exhaust All Alternatives Before Deadly Force" and only because it's so broad as to be effectively impossible.

Whether or not he violated them, I'm pretty sure they're not laws. What I can tell you about Texas law is that deadly force is considered justified "if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of" a very generous list of crimes including but not limited to armed robbery.

He's already been fired from his job with the Tucson police, probably for violating these (in my opinion ludicrous) "8 Can't Wait" rules but he has a quite reasonable case to be made that his use of deadly force was legally justified.

 

[branmuffin]

I had to go through multiple levels to read these "8 Can't Wait" principles and the only one I can see he definitely failed to do is "Requires Exhaust All Alternatives Before Deadly Force" and only because it's so broad as to be effectively impossible.

Whether or not he violated them, I'm pretty sure they're not laws. What I can tell you about Texas law is that deadly force is considered justified "if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of" a very generous list of crimes including but not limited to armed robbery.

He's already been fired from his job with the Tucson police, probably for violating these (in my opinion ludicrous) "8 Can't Wait" rules but he has a quite reasonable case to be made that his use of deadly force was legally justified.

Well, we definitely differ in how we view police departments. Whatever the mission statement is of any police organization it is based on ensuring safety of its citizens. Arbitrarily shooting disabled individuals doesn't enamour them to the general public.

The 8CantWait policies aren't laws. They are instituted to ensure police officers don't treat members of community as the enemy and to ensure all reasonable methods are eliminated before using deadly force. Remington went from 0 to 60 because he failed to properly evaluate the threat.

 

[SuziQ]

All I have to say is knives are deadly weapons and can be thrown. Tasers are not a cure all and are not appropriate for all situations. I worry about the vilification of Police for doing their job. Not many want to do this job any longer. Many great Officers have left. If anyone thinks the Police are bad now. Just wait for the next crop. The ones hired after having dumbed down hiring requirements to get needed recruits.

 

[neesaki]

He had been noncompliant for some time as they walked with him across the parking lot. He fired to prevent him from going into Walmart. If that was a rationalization or if it was legitimate concern for the safety of the people inside is the factor that will presumably be argued in court.

This is so tragic. But I think you’re right. Hopefully, LE tries their best to protect innocent people from danger. This apparently emotionally unstable guy came across as a danger, as he refused to back down. He was going forth with his knife. Who knows if he did or didn’t have a gun on him?
Although, it may seem the officer overreacted with so many shots fired.
Did he panic? As you, not only in this situation, but in others I’ve seen, even in my home town, I believe their is a lack of adequate training.
It’s also a shame that bad cops shed a negative light on all of them. JMO

 

[branmuffin]

All I have to say is knives are deadly weapons and can be thrown. Tasers are not a cure all and are not appropriate for all situations. I worry about the vilification of Police for doing their job. Not many want to do this job any longer. Many great Officers have left. If anyone thinks the Police are bad now. Just wait for the next crop. The ones hired after having dumbed down hiring requirements to get needed recruits.

A taser would have been appropriate for this engagement. So would de-escalation.

I worked for a police organization for nearly 30 years in Ontario. If anything, most police officers hired today (at least the ones we hired) are head and shoulders above those hired 30 years ago. The requirements are stringent. They go through enhanced psychological testing. Even though there is an educational minimum many new hires have university degrees in law, psychology, forensic accounting, etc. They have additional skills like pilot's license, SCUBA experience, many are bilingual or multilingual to better serve the community they are there to serve. Being a former military member doesn't give you a fast pass; they are vetted just as stringently as a civilian.

It's always interesting reading the mission statements of various police organizations. Those that stress the serve and protect aspects of policing like de-escalation and conflict solution seem to do better than those that focus on firearms training. It sends the wrong message because it infers the community is the enemy. I do have one caveat though and it relates to the 2nd amendment. I think the biggest problem that police officers in the US have compared to Canada is presuming everyone they come in contact with, regardless whether it's for a traffic stop or a drunk and disorderly, has a gun.

Vilification of police officers wouldn't occur if they ditched the blue wall of silence when an police officer fails his duties. That sends the wrong message, too.