AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #11

[Knox]

I haven't watched the interview (remember seeing the link, but can't find it now). In that case, I'm not sure. Depends on their definition of financial help - e.g. receiving money or in my example cosigning. Good point.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/raw-celis-parents-talk-to-local-news-media/

Three parts-

 

[Pensfan]

It depends on the type of loan: fha vs conventional. Fha only requires a 3% down payment. Plus, you can have someone with better credit (family member) cosign on the loan.

Before approving an FHA loan, the lender analyzes the integrity of the borrower's past credit performance. Based on FHA requirements, those who have a good credit history demonstrated by a solid track record of timely payments will likely be eligible for a loan. Potential borrower's whose credit history is marred by slow payments, poor financial judgment and delinquent accounts is not a good candidate for loan approval.

FHA allows only first time homebuyers to put down as little as 3.5%.
http://www.fha.com/fha_requirements_credit.cfm

The Celis family had a previous property go into foreclosure and this wasn’t there first home purchase.

 

[Pensfan]

Especially sense they seem to have awareness of public scrutiny and opinions. I think others may be reading and reporting back to them.

Maybe he's just passed out on someone's couch with a BAC > 0.3.
(He had 3 DUIs in 2011.)

 

[Pensfan]

IIRC, the family was not too keen on his self-appointed family spokesman status (where was this stated? can someone help direct me to the post or source?). Perhaps, they gave him a 'what for' and he "stepped down" to appease the family? MOO

Here is his statement:
You don't think anything like that will happen to you and you wake up and you're in that scenario. Everything goes through your mind. Anger, confusion. They're very upset right now. Her mother is beside herself. We're just trying let the police do their thing and get as much information as we can."
"You wonder, is this happening. Is it a dream? You hear about it, but it's real," said Justin Mastromarino, Isabel's uncle.

 

[Knox]

Maybe he's just passed out on someone's couch with a BAC > 0.3.
(He had 3 DUIs in 2011.)

Florida too, IIRC.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

The really curious thing for me about this case is that the police had a search warrant to remove items from their car that doesn't run. They removed a pillow and sheets or blankets. What do they think happened it the car??

Actually, one of the curious/strange things about this case.

:seeya:

BBM: Yes, it is "odd" that LE took items from a car that is "inoperable" ...

The only thing I can think of is that maybe they thought the "perp" had put Isabel in there, like for a short amount of time, and are hoping for some DNA evidence to match up the perp, or maybe some "trace evidence" ?

Sure wish it was known how long the car was "inoperable" ...

:moo:

 

[Stash777]

Before approving an FHA loan, the lender analyzes the integrity of the borrower's past credit performance. Based on FHA requirements, those who have a good credit history demonstrated by a solid track record of timely payments will likely be eligible for a loan. Potential borrower's whose credit history is marred by slow payments, poor financial judgment and delinquent accounts is not a good candidate for loan approval.

FHA allows only first time homebuyers to put down as little as 3.5%.
http://www.fha.com/fha_requirements_credit.cfm

The Celis family had a previous property go into foreclosure and this wasn’t there first home purchase.

Thank you for this information. My husband and I are going through the loan approval process right now, but were told 3% was the minimum required. We are first time homebuyers, so I assumed (incorrectly, obviously) this applied to all homebuyers. My apologies.

 

[Stash777]

ETA: not substantiated by MSN. Sorry :/

 

[Taminator]

:seeya: "Chiming in" here ... and I will try to make a "comparison", fwiw ...

Yes, Terrie's drunk driving charge with a child in the car was all over the MSM News -- in addition to many other "things" about Terrie that were in the MSM News... It was also reported that she failed 2 poly's, IIRC reported by Kaine and Desiree and LE never retracted that she failed the poly's ...

With respect to this case, have these "driving charges" been reported in the MSM News ?
And as of this date, LE has NOT released whether or not the parents "passed" or "failed" a poly ...

JMO ... but how the MSM News covers a case and what LE makes public seems to have an influence as to what is discussed and what is not discussed ...

:moo::moo::moo:

BBM
I don't believe they have been mentioned in MSM, but they are a matter of public record.

The issue I have is, at least in Sergio's case, the charges happened WAY before ANY of their children were born. In Rebecca's case, it was a little more recent--but, people aren't perfect. We don't know if this is a one time mistake that she learned from or what.

At any rate, I don't see what relevance either of their records have, given they happened years ago. JMO

 

[GutFeeling!]

BBM
I don't believe they have been mentioned in MSM, but they are a matter of public record.

I think the issue is (and a mod will correct me if I am wrong) is at this stage SC and BC are victims and should not be sleuthed. Ok they ARE going to be sleuthed by anyone that wants to but it probably shouldn't be shared until they are named PsOI.

I may be wrong, I mix up stuff all the time lol

 

[Stash777]

Sorry. Double post.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I can't imagine the parents, after having seen all of their media input, weighing a debt in one hand and their beloved daughter in the other hand having purposefully chosen to sacrifice their daughter for the debt.

Never mind mortgages. Let's talk about drug debts. I believe, in this family, the parents would expose themselves to their core family, group together and pay up.

I think ethnicity does have a play here. (Please I am not "profiling." I have personal experience; Mexican daughter-in-law and 4 grands.) God, family, work. They're beautiful! This family would, imo, group together to solve this problem before they would ever sacrifice a family member (let alone an innocent child) no matter how much it cost them. . . and everyone in this culture knows this.

Nope, can't buy into money owed as the motive. Just plain isn't logical to me.

 

[cluciano63]

Not about money, it is about Isabel...someone wanted her, whether someone she knew or someone who fixated on her, JMO.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Thank you for finding this, but I remember reading someone saying specifically that the family wasn't happy with him doing this? I think I'm going to have to go through all of the threads to find the post(s) I'm thinking of right now. I will delete if I find that it's just someone's opinion and/or not substantiated by MSN. This might take a while, but if anyone can remember or point me to this, I would completely appreciate it.

You know I read one of my posts when searching for something else today. I did post the rumor/speculation about the family not being happy with JM speaking up from somewhere? It's not in MSM so I'll file that with all my other useful information. With so much hink, I shouldn't add more. My apologies.

 

[butterfly1978]

Praying for Isa, hopefully they will find her today!!

 

[gitana1]

Forgive me,i I missed it : is it known what the child abuse charges were for ? TIA.

It appears that she was charged with DUI (alcohol, dugs or toxic vapors or combo) and having some sort of liquid in the vhicle which she was consuming or possessing. That sounds like an open container. The child "abuse" charge is this statute: http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03623.htm. It could be child endangerment which in the statute includes exposing a child to some sort of vapors.

Reading between the lines, it looks like she got a DUI charge and had an open container while a child was in the car, which would lead to child endangerment charges, but it was dismissed via a motion from the state. This was in 2003. Isa was not yet born.

Those charges were dismissed via a motion by the state. Is that because she had a powerful attorney or some special connections, or whatever? Not likely. Those charges are often dismissed if there is no evidence or the blood alcohol level is on the cusp. I see that all the time with my law partner who does a lot of DUIs.

FWIW...Terri Horman had a charge of driving drunk with a child in car...and it was made a HUGE deal of here at WS...

But that was because of context. She was the last person to be seen with the child. He was not her natural son. She had made statements wanting the mother to come take him prior to his disappearance. She had made statements indicating Kyron was not a good child or was a problem child. She admitted to driving aimlessly for miles on back roads with a sick child right after Kyron went missing and her husband stated she had serious alcohol problems. Terri stated she failed a LDT and she walked out or cancelled further LDT's. She gave up custody of her infant child (much like Julia Biryukova) instead of answering questions about Kyron. She lawyered up with a powerful criminal defense attorney and stopped cooperating.

If we had some of those facts here, we'd be concentrating more on the Celis' past DUI charges in relation to everything else.

Context is everything. Picking one thing out of the whole picture as if that one incident alone made people's ears perk up is not accurate, IMO.

IIRC, the family was not too keen on his self-appointed family spokesman status (where was this stated? can someone help direct me to the post or source?). Perhaps, they gave him a 'what for' and he "stepped down" to appease the family? MOO

That came form a poster here who stated they saw discussion on FB between family members.

I never saw the news interview with JM, anyone have a link handy?

Here's a part of one. http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/17924452/timeline-of-events-one-week-after-isabels-disappearance

Here's another video, I think the same part, but not sure because someone naughty took my computer speakers right now and I can't hear!!! http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...r-old-girl-vanishes-from-tucson-arizona-home/

Make sure to read the abcnews article. It tells more about what the uncle stated only 24 hours after Isabel went missing. Notice the past tense and distancing language.

There was a more complete interview elsewhere, I think on yahoo, but it's way back on thread 4, 5 or 6!

 

[Stash777]

I think the issue is (and a mod will correct me if I am wrong) is at this stage SC and BC are victims and should not be sleuthed. Ok they ARE going to be sleuthed by anyone that wants to but it probably shouldn't be shared until they are named PsOI.

I may be wrong, I mix up stuff all the time lol

I mix things up too, it's human.

From what I understand based on what was posted in an early thread, is that sleuthing the parents was okay because it was said that everyone was a POI - no one was ruled out. BUT, I think we should be careful with how and what we sleuth. In many cases, the parent(s) are found to be the perp. So in cases with no/little info, such as this one, people automatically look at the parents. Either way, I still view the parents as victims - nothing specifically points to them, and IMO regarding the interviews, they seem genuine. MOO

 

[Stash777]

I tried advance search using the following: "uncle" "Uncle, spokesman" "uncle as spokesman" "Uncle as family spokesman" and many others with the inclusion of only AZ, and starting two weeks back in time. Even using only "Uncle" advanced search will only pull up threads 10 and 11.

I also tried the regular search, "Search this thread" tool and went through each thread (1-11) individually with pretty much the same words and combinations of them and for those all I get are "Sorry, no matches..." I have concluded that feature is useless (to me anyway).

Iirc, somebody talked to a local that knows them??? and said the family was upset that he had inserted himself...
Who is it that has the son that has the girlfriend (fiance'?) that has a child(?) that knows the family? It may have been that poster that read it on a relatives page. If not, please will that poster forgive me?

I hope at least some of that^ makes sense, lol.

First, thank you so much for doing this, I was trying to do it myself, but nothing was coming up. Second, BBM maybe I'm not crazy? Someone else remembers reading this...somewhere? I wish I could find this! I think the person you're thinking of is Patty, but I may be wrong, :?

 

[MsFacetious]

IDK, has to have been somebody I look up to a lot as I have it filed in my mind as an authoritative type person like a mod. PattyG would fit that as well.

You are very welcome, btw.

Yep, was PattyG that knew somebody who knew somebody who was friends with somebody.
I would normally really go search and find the post... but the search still isn't working for me.

Thank you for finding this, but I remember reading someone saying specifically that the family wasn't happy with him doing this? I think I'm going to have to go through all of the threads to find the post(s) I'm thinking of right now. I will delete if I find that it's just someone's opinion and/or not substantiated by MSN. This might take a while, butif anyone can remember or point me to this, I would completely appreciate it.

I haven't been able to get through all the threads, and the search isn't turning up anything. So, since I cannot back this up with anything solid, please do not take this as fact (Clarify: family unhappy with someone self-appointed as spokesman). If anyone remembers and/or can point me to the posts that mentioned this, can you please link them for me?? I'm beginning to think I'm going crazy right now with remembering this....

It was family facebook discussion. I don't believe we ever heard it from the parents directly, just extended family on facebook.

 

[Stash777]

It was family facebook discussion. I don't believe we ever heard it from the parents directly, just extended family on facebook.

In that case, I'll delete my post. Thank you for clarifying.