AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #11

[Donjeta]

I see your concerns. I just don't think it is something to jump to the conclusion that he is guilty of this awful thing. I can see how it could happen and be perfectly innocent. jmo

I've never said he is guilty of anything, it's just something that jumps out of that statement.

Maybe he is the pessimistic type and wrote her off as dead because the most likely scenarios in his head do not allow for a happy homecoming.

 

[GutFeeling!]

I don't know that it is so much that people are 'obsessed' as much as the fact that he has raised some red flags with people, then NG said LE was 'scrutinizing' a relative (don't remember if they said 'Uncle') and posted the exact same arrest records that JM has. There are other things I don't remember right now. However, some posters find the parents suspicious and they do not have anything in their past to indicate that they would be involved either. Different posters have different 'feelings' about everyone involved.

NG said they were scrutinizing a cousin (that is how the is he an uncle or cousin thing started) We had referred to him as an uncle, she said cousin, we saw the arrest records and started the debate lol

 

[dimples37398]

Well we can all get whatever feelings we feel. How can you NOT get a feeling about him? I have followed this story from day one, I have read every thread here, every thread on similar sites, every news article and I small a rat, I have a gut feeling and I may be right or I may be wrong. I am sharing my feelings with others who have read everything too (and we don't always agree) but we learn from each other, we can see why the other person is thinking that way. Many people, especially from here have excellent insight and incredible sleuthing skills, they put in the hard yards themselves and share that information with others, then the others determine their own beliefs.

no one is right and no one is wrong.

One point you made is that we are all judging him on a few words he said - that is NOT the case at all, there have been many things shared eg: HE calls himself an Uncle on HIS page.

I have no life That was discussed last night among many of my friends here that seem to also be missing lives

Well maybe he is her uncle, but I don't see anything that he has done or have I heard anything that he has said that made him suspicious to me. Maybe I missed an interview, but I don't see anyone saying he is the one who was knocking on doors and if he was the one knocking on doors, what is wrong with that? He was called by family members and got up and went over there to help out.

I haven't seen that he has been arrested for anything that would make me say Oh no, I haven't heard anyone, family or friends saying he was inappropriate with her, I haven't seen any pics of him holding her in a strange or abnormal way. He is no more suspicious to me, than anyone else in the family, or anyone else the family is extremely close to.

JMO

 

[Pensfan]

I think no matter who it is, if they are close to the family, or they are family, and are out in the media, or not out in the media, they will be scrutinized by someone.

Has someone important not been scrutinized by LE?

The couple asked anyone who has ever been in their home or around their daughter to submit to the same police questioning they did.
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/new...ts-share-more-details-abrk.html#ixzz1u1vFEfEg

In the very last seconds of that youtube video (part 2), Sergio asks for all the family members to be "checked out". It has been 2 weeks. Who hasn't submitted themselves to be checked out? Does this relate to why they can't tell us who called in the 911 call? (Yes, I know. See scanner thread.)

 

[mck16]

Well we can all get whatever feelings we feel. How can you NOT get a feeling about him? I have followed this story from day one, I have read every thread here, every thread on similar sites, every news article and I small a rat, I have a gut feeling and I may be right or I may be wrong. I am sharing my feelings with others who have read everything too (and we don't always agree) but we learn from each other, we can see why the other person is thinking that way. Many people, especially from here have excellent insight and incredible sleuthing skills, they put in the hard yards themselves and share that information with others, then the others determine their own beliefs.

no one is right and no one is wrong.

One point you made is that we are all judging him on a few words he said - that is NOT the case at all, there have been many things shared eg: HE calls himself an Uncle on HIS page.
I have no life That was discussed last night among many of my friends here that seem to also be missing lives

That's true, but do we know he isn't her uncle. Has that been proven? tia

 

[gitana1]

I am glad that was cleared up too-now we know that they were the only ones in the home that night.
Now my only question is, why did LE keep saying 'no comment' when the same question was asked.

Good question.

The floor plan that I uploaded last night from KGUN(the clearer one below) is the exact same as the one on the film as you will also see below but doesn't have all the extraneous multitude of tiny measurements.. It's the same floor plan and is accurate.

*sorry if already uploaded an discussed as I'm still catching up*


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

The diagram, though, cannot be accurate. What are those two little room off Isabel's room? Closets? Bathroom? Why no access to the boys' room? I want the real floor plan.

He made that comment after her body was found when speaking of the whole experience. I don't think the verbiage JM used should be interpreted as past tense. I doubt if he even knows correct tense. sorry. I am not sure if under those circumstances I would have perfect grammar either. Also if he was thinking of an instance in the past where she exibited those behaviours it would be natural to use past tense. e.g. she was wise the day she did not take candy from a stranger. If he was remembering past occasions. jmo

I am not interpreting a thing. He IS using past tense. That's not an "interpretation."

Just a sweet little girl, 6 years old, you know, all the ambition in the world, she could do whatever she wanted, uh, didn't really like strangers or anything like that, so very close knitted and just, very wise."

He doesn't really use any tense with the word wise since it's a separate addition in the end of the sentence but IMO there is no other way to understand "could do", "wanted" and "didn't like" except past tense. These aren't really events in the past imo, they are more general qualities that would go on and be present tense unless the child died or her personality changed, or the speaker hasn't seen her in a long time and doesn't really know what she's like nowadays.

JMO, even people who use bad grammar generally know the difference between "doesn't" and "didn't".

That's right. All I know, guys, is that detectives and profilers carefully listen to suspects or witnesses grammar when investigating a disappearance or death. The use of past tense has been brought up repeatedly in court cases to prove guilt. Show me ONE case of innocent parents or family members talking about the missing in the past tense? Every case I have looked at where the past tense was used was by people who are guilty.

I am very open to that not being the case here but it is, in light of that, extremely relevant. Repeatedly it has been asked why JM is looked at suspiciously on this forum. That was part of my answer. I think his use of the past tense on the day Isabel went missing is a very good reason for some to look twice at him. You can try to minimize it or excuse it all you want but it is a logical answer, IMO as to why some of us are interested in or curious about JM and, while there very well may be a good reason other than knowledge of her death, you better believe profilers have looked closely at him as a result of that statement:

The use of past or present tense also is significant when referring to missing persons. In such cases, the norm is to describe the person in the present tense, as in, "I just pray that Jenny is all right." When children are missing, in the parents'' hearts and minds, the children remain alive, sometimes long after the point of reason. As evidenced in the Susan Smith case, use of past tense almost immediately after the alleged abduction showed a significant deviation from the norm.

During the investigation, Susan tearfully told reporters, "My children wanted me. They needed me. And now I can't help them."1 Yet, the boys' father, David, who believed Susan's story, tried to reassure her by saying: "They're okay. They're going to be home soon."2
Police subsequently arrested Susan for the murder of her children. She was tried and convicted and is currently serving a life sentence in a South Carolina correctional institution. Many investigators use a technique called "statement analysis" to discern the truth in statements like the ones given by Susan and David Smith. In statement analysis, investigators examine words, independent of case facts, to detect deception. They also remain alert for information omitted and question why the suspect may have done so. Investigators then analyze the clues unintentionally provided by a suspect and use this insight during the subsequent interview.
In the case of Susan Smith, by analyzing the statements made by the victims' parents, one could conclude that the father believed the boys were alive and the mother knew the children were dead. The key to this deduction lies in simple English grammar, specifically, verb tense. The father referred to the children in the present tense; the mother used the past tense. Of all times, when the "abducted" children really would need their mother, she speaks of them in the past tense, e.g., "They needed me." The children could no longer want or need her because they were no longer alive.

http://www.crimeandclues.com/index....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-what-do-suspects-words-really-reveal

 

[dimples37398]

Well in the interview of the parents on the Today show, Sergio says when speaking of Isa, She is (then almost says was) then corrects with a strong IS so full of life.

 

[panthera]

The floor plan that I uploaded last night from KGUN(the clearer one below) is the exact same as the one on the film as you will also see below but doesn't have all the extraneous multitude of tiny measurements.. It's the same floor plan and is accurate.

*sorry if already uploaded an discussed as I'm still catching up*


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

That is the one I found also and have been studying, trying to figure out how the perp got into the house and left, if not through her bedroom window. I've practically eliminated the front of the house since that would also include the enclosed area outside, leaving not only a front door but gate to maneuver. And then there's the back door, with a fence he would have to get over while carrying Isabel. Unless one of the gates was left unlocked? Was that front gate open when Becky left for work? Or did anyone notice?

:waitasec:

MOO

 

[joedotnet]

That's true, but do we know he isn't her uncle. Has that been proven? tia

IMO he is her second cousin based on fb relationships.

 

[joedotnet]

Well in the interview of the parents on the Today show, Sergio says when speaking of Isa, She is (then almost says was) then corrects with a strong IS so full of life.

So dimples what is your theory? family or someone close to family or stranger abduction?

 

[gitana1]

Well can anyone really blame them now, if they have heard what all is being said about JM for putting himself out there :/

Nope. The media speculation about the uncle happened only once, on NG, AFTER the parents spoke publicly. And JM stopped speaking to the media, BEFORE that media speculation occurred.

I see your concerns. I just don't think it is something to jump to the conclusion that he is guilty of this awful thing. I can see how it could happen and be perfectly innocent. jmo

Can you please show me where any of us have jumped to the conclusion that JM is guilty? Come on, guys. We are questioning things, wondering, not conducting a witch hunt. For all I know, JM could be some poor relative suddenly caught up because he was the only one really speaking out that day. But there is reason to look twice at him. That's all this discussion is about!

 

[carole]

I don't know what to make of the car. I mean, I could see myself keeping things I would take to the game there. Rather than in the house. Just more convenient?
When my daughter played softball, my son was only about 2, and I always brought a blanket and pillow for him in case he got tired. I just don't know..

BBM

But this is not a car they drove to games or anywhere -- the car does not run. So why were there pillows, etc. in the car? Maybe left in there from when it did run?? Still seems strange that the police thought there might be some kind of evidence on these items.

 

[Shelby2]

The family always gets scrutinized imo if the child is too young to be considered a runaway and if LE can't name or describe any obvious suspects.

Yes but what I am saying is that most of the scrutiny I see is related to speaking to the media/not speaking to the media.

 

[Lava]

That's true, but do we know he isn't her uncle. Has that been proven? tia

I believe this little controversy started over someone posting elsewhere something I won't repeat here, and then people piecing together relationships through FB. According to MSM he is her uncle, as he claims to be. Rumors suggest otherwise.

 

[joedotnet]

BBM

But this is not a car they drove to games or anywhere -- the car does not run. So why were there pillows, etc. in the car? Maybe left in there from when it did run?? Still seems strange that the police thought there might be some kind of evidence on these items.

Also, she went missing on national 420 day...hard telling who could have passed out in there. lol

 

[Shelby2]

BBM

But this is not a car they drove to games or anywhere -- the car does not run. So why were there pillows, etc. in the car? Maybe left in there from when it did run?? Still seems strange that the police thought there might be some kind of evidence on these items.

Yes I realize that- but maybe it was close to the car they did use, and kept the stuff there, rather than taking up space in the car they DID use.

 

[gitana1]

Well in the interview of the parents on the Today show, Sergio says when speaking of Isa, She is (then almost says was) then corrects with a strong IS so full of life.

No he didn't, IMO. I never heard a hint of a "W" sound crossing his lips. He said "she is...she IS...". Unless you are a mind reader, I don't know how you can tell he was about to use the past tense.

To me, he is trying to convince himself she is still alive.

 

[dimples37398]

Well just like we all have different opinions, I heard it, I don't know if it matters I am using headphones. There was another person who heard the same on the thread where we were discussing it. Not a mind reader at all, I just heard something different than what you heard.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Don´t know if this has been posted before?
And basicly this IS hearsay, but I still think it is interesting due to that it has been stated in media that cadaver dogs did hit on somthing.

If this is not alowed to post admin please delete.

http://www.justice4caylee.org/t18796-isabel-mercedes-celis-6-yo-tucson-az

Search for Isabel Celis Leads To Cadaver Alert In Home And Local Landfill- Family Barred From Home
Monday 23 April 2012

Quote:


Early this morning, the FBI deployed a scent tracking dog and a cadaver canine to the Celis home. The family was then asked to make other living arrangements for the near future as the dogs produced evidence requiring further investigation.

Police Chief Roberto Villasenor would not reveal what was found at the home of first-grader Isabel Mercedes Celis.

Police have not said what that is, but sources close to the family not willing to be identified have confirmed to www.************.com that the specially trained cadaver dog alerted to the detection of cadaverine.
The home is now being treated as a crime scene.

This article came from the examiner. I am spacing it out because that site is a blocked site here at WS.

If I can see it elsewhere in another MSM link then I will consider it but on this site even you or I could write an article about any case and publish it.

 

[Shelby2]

Nope. The media speculation about the uncle happened only once, on NG, AFTER the parents spoke publicly. And JM stopped speaking to the media, BEFORE that media speculation occurred.



Can you please show me where any of us have jumped to the conclusion that JM is guilty? Come on, guys. We are questioning things, wondering, not conducting a witch hunt. For all I know, JM could be some poor relative suddenly caught up because he was the only one really speaking out that day. But there is reason to look twice at him. That's all this discussion is about!

Yes, the media speculation about JM happened then, but posters here were speculating before that-that's how we knew it was HIS arrest record being shown-because for different reasons he was being sleuthed here. Sorry, should have clarified that!