AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[Taminator]

I remember when I was 5, I walked all the way to school by myself. I don't remember the exact distance, but it was quite a ways for what I remember and definitely farther than I would allow my kids to walk. I'm 43 now.

I was a very timid child. I don't ever remember my parents talking to me about strangers or what to do in certain scenarios back then. I just think I have always been naturally fearful. I remember once walking home from school and a station wagon driving slowly and trying to wave me over. I ran.

I would cry over EVERYTHING. I cried when I was 7 and I was walking home in the rain. All the worms popping out of the holes freaked me out. Another time I dropped my popsicle in the rain and I cried.

I remember when I was about 9 or 10 and I wandered away from my dad in a department store. I panicked and started crying. A man-a stranger--put me on his shoulders and I found him. To this day, if I'm shopping with my husband I usually wander off and when I can't find him I get that panicky feeling.

I tell my son when he's walking from the bus stop to make sure he is paying attention to his surroundings. I tell him to never get in a car with anyone, no matter what they tell you. I've told him I would never, ever, ever send a person to pick him on the side of a street or anywhere else without letting him know. We have apartment complexes, trailer parks, and convenience stores all along the walk home. I always tell him if someone tries to take him or get him to come with them to run to the nearest apartment and get help. Or run to the store and get help. He's 11 and as a mom it's very hard for me to let go, but I have to give him a little independance. But believe me, if he's not home by a certain time, I start getting that panicky feeling.

 

[TxLady2]

I was at the grocery store yesterday, noticed a dad with a just walking age toddler. He was quite away ahead of his daughter but was watching. He went out the automatic doors and she went to the flowers to check them out. I was stunned how many people walked by what appeared to an unattended toddler who couldn't ask for help if they needed to, walked by, took notice of the child and then about their shopping.

I think you would be surprised what can go on, be noticed, and no one does anything. They won't even say anything let alone make a scene taking action. It is a well documented fact that you are not safer in numbers. The more people that are around the more people think someone else will do it or they are afraid of making a scene and being wrong. When they do controlled experiments people who think they are the only witness to an event react ten times more often and much faster.

I guess it depends on where you live. I have not witnessed an attempted kidnapping, but if it did, I think people around here would notice and do something, most of them anyway.
A few years ago, I saw a little boy in Wal Mart who looked to be about 2-3, crying and looking around like he was lost. I was going to keep my eye on him and look for an employee to help, but in about a minute a young woman with a baby in a carrier in the basket came rushing around the corner and he smiled, saying "Mommy!" so it was cool. I didn't want to pick him up, in case it scared him, or the mom might accuse me of attempted kidnapping, but I wasn't going to leave him crying in the aisle, either. I noticed several other people sort of hanging around watching, too. Maybe not everybody, but there are still some good people here who would step up and help.
But I have to think, those people in your case who went on about their shopping just may have been afraid to stop and try to talk to this toddler, for fear that mom or dad would pounce on them and think they were trying to take her. I would be very hesitant to approach a young child standing alone, some store clerk might call the cops on me!

 

[cluciano63]

I think LE is saying don't expect to hear that anyone has been "cleared" until they have made an arrest. JMO

 

[Prof]

The KOVA video of the TPD update today.
http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-20-detectives-and-30-support-staffers-working-on-celis-case/

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The KOVA video of the TPD update today.
http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-20-detectives-and-30-support-staffers-working-on-celis-case/

It sure sounds like they are at a stand still and have made no progress and I dont think they are going to rule anyone out until they make an arrest which isnt uncommon in fact it is more common for LE to go this route.

"We've been examining every possibility. Whether it be extended family members, friends, people who have visited the neighborhood or regulars in the neighborhood," Sgt. Hawke said. "They have a very active social life outside outside of the home as well. So pretty much everyone they come into contact with has obviously looked at.:02 There has not been one person that has been identified as a suspect, as well as no one has been eliminated from suspicion in this case."

Sgt. Hawke also talked about their process of elimination when it comes to identifying possible suspects. So far, she says no one has been identified, nor ruled out.

Notice she does NOT include close family members though.

 

[pieper4]

The quote in context:
"No one has been ruled out, and they're investigating all possible scenarios." (KVOA)
"We've been examining every possibility. Whether it be extended family members, friends, people who have visited the neighborhood or regulars in the neighborhood," Sgt. Hawke said. "They have a very active social life outside outside of the home as well. So pretty much everyone they come into contact with has obviously looked at.:02 There has not been one person that has been identified as a suspect, as well as no one has been eliminated from suspicion in this case." (Maria Hawke)
From http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

 

[mahoolin]

want to really have an moment? Check out the interactive amber alert map which also shows all current attempted abductions in the United States. It is completely eye opening

http://amberalerts.globalincidentmap.com/home.php

BBM

...and unfortunately, incomplete. Near where I'm from, there have been a lot more attempted abductions (on the local news )just in the last couple of months than are reported on this map. I searched for 12 months. Scary.

What happened to the long summer days when a good day ended with being allowed to stay out AFTER dark playing kick-the-can, spotlight or whatever was popular at the time.

The days that children are given free reign to play all over the neighborhood - checking in at lunch and for dinner are gone... I feel sorry for the children that didn't, don't and won't ever have that freedom. That was social studies, citizenship, gym, science and the art of getting along 101 without any books. ahh, those were the good ole days.
:bud:

 

[cluciano63]

I live in NM and have heard about a lot more attempted abductions this year than I can recall from other years. Also a girl from the high school, right up the street from me, was apparently assaulted this morning in one of the arroyos near the school, while walking to school...they had helicopters out over my house all afternoon, I think they were looking for the guy. So it is not just Tucson...

 

[Kelly Faraday]

I remember when I was 5, I walked all the way to school by myself. I don't remember the exact distance, but it was quite a ways for what I remember and definitely farther than I would allow my kids to walk. I'm 43 now.

I was a very timid child. I don't ever remember my parents talking to me about strangers or what to do in certain scenarios back then. I just think I have always been naturally fearful. I remember once walking home from school and a station wagon driving slowly and trying to wave me over. I ran.

I would cry over EVERYTHING. I cried when I was 7 and I was walking home in the rain. All the worms popping out of the holes freaked me out. Another time I dropped my popsicle in the rain and I cried.

I remember when I was about 9 or 10 and I wandered away from my dad in a department store. I panicked and started crying. A man-a stranger--put me on his shoulders and I found him. To this day, if I'm shopping with my husband I usually wander off and when I can't find him I get that panicky feeling.

I tell my son when he's walking from the bus stop to make sure he is paying attention to his surroundings. I tell him to never get in a car with anyone, no matter what they tell you. I've told him I would never, ever, ever send a person to pick him on the side of a street or anywhere else without letting him know. We have apartment complexes, trailer parks, and convenience stores all along the walk home. I always tell him if someone tries to take him or get him to come with them to run to the nearest apartment and get help. Or run to the store and get help. He's 11 and as a mom it's very hard for me to let go, but I have to give him a little independance. But believe me, if he's not home by a certain time, I start getting that panicky feeling.

BBM Maybe you can get a nice stranger to put you on his shoulders so you can find him. LOL

Sorry. Not being a smart you-know-what but I just had to interject some humor.

Actually, I just came out of lurking because your post touched me deeply. I too was a timid, fearful child but I couldn't show it, so nobody really knew. I was terrified of elderly people for example. Going downhill when in the car was so scarey I could barely breath. If I was riding my bike in the neighborhood and I saw a car on the road I would panic and pedal as fast as I could even though I knew they weren't trying to get me. My heart would pound so hard and I would just be so afraid it was ridiculous of things other children wouldn't have even noticed.

Anyway, just wanted to say there are others who have an idea how you feel. I know that doesn't really help, but it's true.

So hoping for a miracle for Isabel and her family.

Kelly

 

[mahoolin]

I remember when I was 5, I walked all the way to school by myself. I don't remember the exact distance, but it was quite a ways for what I remember and definitely farther than I would allow my kids to walk. I'm 43 now.

I was a very timid child. I don't ever remember my parents talking to me about strangers or what to do in certain scenarios back then. I just think I have always been naturally fearful. I remember once walking home from school and a station wagon driving slowly and trying to wave me over. I ran.

I would cry over EVERYTHING. I cried when I was 7 and I was walking home in the rain. All the worms popping out of the holes freaked me out. Another time I dropped my popsicle in the rain and I cried.

I remember when I was about 9 or 10 and I wandered away from my dad in a department store. I panicked and started crying. A man-a stranger--put me on his shoulders and I found him. To this day, if I'm shopping with my husband I usually wander off and when I can't find him I get that panicky feeling.

I tell my son when he's walking from the bus stop to make sure he is paying attention to his surroundings. I tell him to never get in a car with anyone, no matter what they tell you. I've told him I would never, ever, ever send a person to pick him on the side of a street or anywhere else without letting him know. We have apartment complexes, trailer parks, and convenience stores all along the walk home. I always tell him if someone tries to take him or get him to come with them to run to the nearest apartment and get help. Or run to the store and get help. He's 11 and as a mom it's very hard for me to let go, but I have to give him a little independance. But believe me, if he's not home by a certain time, I start getting that panicky feeling.

BBM - worms still do freak me out, and I whine and shudder all the while stepping around them on rainy days!!!! ewwwwww

I think you've given your son good advice. I'm sorry you had such a rough time, but don't apologize for getting that panicky feeling. That's called being a mother.

I'm more like you were then now in my life. Back then I was blissfully unaware, and truth be known, never knew a stranger. I'd have probably been easy pickings for a smooth-talking creep. It wasn't that I hadn't been taught, I was very gullible, and wanted to believe people really were nice. Those in my immediate environment were, so it was hard to imagine otherwise.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Moo of course but I believe LE very deliberately and very specifically made the statement that I bolded in Red in my above post.. The fact that they cannot clear anyone as a suspect that cannot prove they were NOT in Tucson.. I believe they stated this specifically in reference of the family and those so suspicious of them not being "cleared".. LE has now stated that it is not possible for the family to be cleared and that people are putting too much weight into a factor of which the family has zero control and cannot do anything to "make themselves become cleared".. Moo is LE's motive for making this very specific statement was absolutely deliberate..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

MOO is that LE may have chosen that particular wording so that they would not have to release their reasons for not clearing the family.

This way they have not cleared the family, but have given their "official" criteria for keeping them as suspects without having to divulge any leads they may have that implicate the family.

That is MOO on the unusually worded statement. MOO is that if they really thought the family was innocent, they'd have said so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Taminator]

BBM Maybe you can get a nice stranger to put you on his shoulders so you can find him. LOL

Sorry. Not being a smart you-know-what but I just had to interject some humor.

Actually, I just came out of lurking because your post touched me deeply. I too was a timid, fearful child but I couldn't show it, so nobody really knew. I was terrified of elderly people for example. Going downhill when in the car was so scarey I could barely breath. If I was riding my bike in the neighborhood and I saw a car on the road I would panic and pedal as fast as I could even though I knew they weren't trying to get me. My heart would pound so hard and I would just be so afraid it was ridiculous of things other children wouldn't have even noticed.

Anyway, just wanted to say there are others who have an idea how you feel. I know that doesn't really help, but it's true.

So hoping for a miracle for Isabel and her family.

Kelly

Thanks for coming out of hiding, Kelly!
Anyone who knows me now, would never believe I was such a timid child. I see a lot of that in my own kids. I just hope and pray that they have that same "Something's not right" radar.

Back on topic regarding Isabel....You can teach your kids what to do on the street to keep safe, but you just don't expect you have to tell your kids that these freaks are coming into your home and invading the place where you should feel the most secure. I just can't even begin to understand it.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

BBM Maybe you can get a nice stranger to put you on his shoulders so you can find him. LOL

Sorry. Not being a smart you-know-what but I just had to interject some humor.

Actually, I just came out of lurking because your post touched me deeply. I too was a timid, fearful child but I couldn't show it, so nobody really knew. I was terrified of elderly people for example. Going downhill when in the car was so scarey I could barely breath. If I was riding my bike in the neighborhood and I saw a car on the road I would panic and pedal as fast as I could even though I knew they weren't trying to get me. My heart would pound so hard and I would just be so afraid it was ridiculous of things other children wouldn't have even noticed.

Anyway, just wanted to say there are others who have an idea how you feel. I know that doesn't really help, but it's true.

So hoping for a miracle for Isabel and her family.

Kelly

I have an idea, too. :hug:

 

[raine1212]

I know I cant bring scanner chatter here, but it is worth listening to.

 

[cluciano63]

It's my belief that LE would like to rule out the parents, but that at least one of them did not pass the lie detector test, JMO. Sierra's parents were ruled out very early, true, they were able to give alibis, but we know they also took LD tests, if I remember correctly, which LE does take into consideration, even if they can't really use them.

There are reasons a parent could fail, of course, besides guilt, so I am not implying anything other than I think it is making it impossible to come out and say the parents are not responsible and this is all JMO anyway.

One weird thing from another case...when the Irwins were asked if they could think of anyone who would take their baby, they said they gave police a laundry list of names...I always thought that was strange. I think in the Celis' case they said they could not think of anyone. I don't know what any of this means, if anything, but it is notable that they gave such completely opposite responses. JMO

 

[Taminator]

I know I cant bring scanner chatter here, but it is worth listening to.

*knocking on basement door*

 

[Thinkzerz]

I remember when I was 5, I walked all the way to school by myself. I don't remember the exact distance, but it was quite a ways for what I remember and definitely farther than I would allow my kids to walk. I'm 43 now.

I was a very timid child. I don't ever remember my parents talking to me about strangers or what to do in certain scenarios back then. I just think I have always been naturally fearful. I remember once walking home from school and a station wagon driving slowly and trying to wave me over. I ran.

I would cry over EVERYTHING. I cried when I was 7 and I was walking home in the rain. All the worms popping out of the holes freaked me out. Another time I dropped my popsicle in the rain and I cried.

I remember when I was about 9 or 10 and I wandered away from my dad in a department store. I panicked and started crying. A man-a stranger--put me on his shoulders and I found him. To this day, if I'm shopping with my husband I usually wander off and when I can't find him I get that panicky feeling.

I tell my son when he's walking from the bus stop to make sure he is paying attention to his surroundings. I tell him to never get in a car with anyone, no matter what they tell you. I've told him I would never, ever, ever send a person to pick him on the side of a street or anywhere else without letting him know. We have apartment complexes, trailer parks, and convenience stores all along the walk home. I always tell him if someone tries to take him or get him to come with them to run to the nearest apartment and get help. Or run to the store and get help. He's 11 and as a mom it's very hard for me to let go, but I have to give him a little independance. But believe me, if he's not home by a certain time, I start getting that panicky feeling.

The scary thing is i bet almost everyone on this forum has a story of a perp. I have one where i was walking down the stairs in my apartment building around age 10 and a man was holding the door to outside. I had to pass him to get outside. He said something to me but i was unable to make it out. I then looked back and here he was with his penis out rubbing it. I ran all the way to a Mc Donalds to get to a phone to call my mother because i was to scared to go near the building.

Scary how many people have a story. I won't let my kids walk or go anywhere alone. If they are outside playing, i am there too. They are not allowed to walk to and from school. I have all my kids in Karate. Thinking on another self defence class for them. They enjoy karate so this is a plus.They have been going to karate for 8-2 years between all of them.

Their independence doesn't have to come at a young age. I think 12 is an okay age for kids to walk in groups. Still not alone. JMO

 

[Thinkzerz]

I remember when I was 5, I walked all the way to school by myself. I don't remember the exact distance, but it was quite a ways for what I remember and definitely farther than I would allow my kids to walk. I'm 43 now.

I was a very timid child. I don't ever remember my parents talking to me about strangers or what to do in certain scenarios back then. I just think I have always been naturally fearful. I remember once walking home from school and a station wagon driving slowly and trying to wave me over. I ran.

I would cry over EVERYTHING. I cried when I was 7 and I was walking home in the rain. All the worms popping out of the holes freaked me out. Another time I dropped my popsicle in the rain and I cried.

I remember when I was about 9 or 10 and I wandered away from my dad in a department store. I panicked and started crying. A man-a stranger--put me on his shoulders and I found him. To this day, if I'm shopping with my husband I usually wander off and when I can't find him I get that panicky feeling.

I tell my son when he's walking from the bus stop to make sure he is paying attention to his surroundings. I tell him to never get in a car with anyone, no matter what they tell you. I've told him I would never, ever, ever send a person to pick him on the side of a street or anywhere else without letting him know. We have apartment complexes, trailer parks, and convenience stores all along the walk home. I always tell him if someone tries to take him or get him to come with them to run to the nearest apartment and get help. Or run to the store and get help. He's 11 and as a mom it's very hard for me to let go, but I have to give him a little independance. But believe me, if he's not home by a certain time, I start getting that panicky feeling.

The scary thing is i bet almost everyone on this forum has a story of a perp. I have one where i was walking down the stairs in my apartment building around age 10 and a man was holding the door to outside. I had to pass him to get outside. He said something to me but i was unable to make it out. I then looked back and here he was with his penis out rubbing it. I ran all the way to a Mc Donalds to get to a phone to call my mother because i was to scared to go near the building.

Scary how many people have a story. I won't let my kids walk or go anywhere alone. If they are outside playing, i am there too. They are not allowed to walk to and from school. I have all my kids in Karate. Thinking on another self defence class for them as well. They enjoy karate so this is a plus.They have been going to karate for 8-2 years between all of them.

There independence doesn't have to come at a young age. I think 12 is an okay age for kids to walk in groups. Still not alone. JMO

 

[Thinkzerz]

*knocking on basement door*

Whats the link?

 

[cluciano63]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Scanner link...it is okay to post, I hope?