AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[GutFeeling!]

I am asking this question because in almost every report about this case it is always mentioned how much this case is costing. So I did not know if it was the families responsibility hence all the fundraisers and so on to eventually have to pay the state or if it was the state that was paying. All places are different. I don't know AZ laws, I don't live there.

Costs are usually mentioned and pretty often, if not in a press conference it is often asked at interviews with LE. TPD has a budget, it is accountable to citizens as to where the funds go, what they are being used for in this case etc. It is just accountability and how they figure their numbers is not the way you and I would.

Some costs are absorbed by other agencies with larger budgets

 

[liz b.]

i'm replying to both you and liz (can't get that multi-quote thingy to work lol) but just to clarify, the chief didn't say it was a legitimate kidnapping. a division captain did.

"The first call I got about this was from the division captain," says Roberto Villasenor, chief of the Tucson Police Department. "And his first words were almost, 'this one feels legitimate.'

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18306084/finding-isabel-the-untold-investigation

TY for posting this...it seems that the Chief was speaking intuitively ? Nothing wrong with that, but as time passed,and some facts came in,he may have thought differently ?

FWIW, I don't think either of these parents hurt their little girl...JMO

 

[mck16]

Costs are usually mentioned and pretty often, if not in a press conference it is often asked at interviews with LE. TPD has a budget, it is accountable to citizens as to where the funds go, what they are being used for in this case etc. It is just accountability and how they figure their numbers is not the way you and I would.

Some costs are absorbed by other agencies with larger budgets

The only time I know of that the person had to pay costs was in the CA case. They charged her for all the wasted time and wild goose chases she sent LE on. jmo

 

[Morag]

I'm inclined to think that the 14 year old boy made the call. Boys of that age don't always have very masculine voices. And he would have probably only known what she had on when he saw her the evening before, before she was readied for bed.
And do we know that the mother drove herself to work? Maybe the dad drove her and the kids were alone in the house, albeit briefly.

 

[pieper4]

I don't know so I am asking. Do children need passport or Id's to go into Mexico, or just the adult.

I had to check the current regulations. Here, in part: Since March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children – have been required to present a valid passport or passport card for travel beyond the “border zone” into the interior of Mexico. The “border zone” is generally defined as an area within 20 to 30 kilometers of the border with the U.S., depending on the location. Regardless of the destination in Mexico; however, all U.S. citizens age 16 or older must present a valid U.S. passport book or passport card to re-enter the U.S. by land. A passport book is required to return to the United States via an international flight.

From http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

 

[Madilu]

I would hope so too if it were my child but I am asking who is responsible for paying the million dollars, the Celis family or the state of Arizona.

Tax payers are paying and it comes out of LE funds -that come from property taxes, etc. This same issue came up in Kyron Horman case, since at the end of the day, LE needs to justify the ongoing investigation. Became a huge issue in Oregon, after over $1M and NO results, NO child, NO arrests...I think a gigantic portion of the expense was LE overtime expense -some were earning 20K in OT in one month! (or something like that). Sure is a lot of money, but at least it is employing people

 

[Madilu]

The State of Arizona and probably the county. That is one of the reasons taxpayers pay taxes and LE have budgets that covers something like this. If they think they need more money outside of their existing budget they will go to the county commissioners and get more money allocated for the search.

IMO

Oh yes, that is what happened in Kyron's case. LE had to go before the county commissioners and ask for another 250K or so once they ran out of funding...

 

[GutFeeling!]

Good thought. Also, one of the boys is named Ju**an -could have been mistaken by the dispatcher for Ju**ia ...

To me, it seems like an adult called -what young boy knows how to report the height and weight of his lil sis? That's adult speak...

That person talking is the dispatch operator, not the call taker, 2 very different jobs.

By the time the dispatcher talks he/she has all the info, the call taker GETS all the info and puts it into a logical form - rarely is the correct information given straight away, not to be devious just because it is stressful.

When I was robbed I forgot to tell the call taker that the man pointed a gun at me - kind of an important piece of informaion lol

The call taker asks the questions, the person making the call could have been calling out to dad for details of questions asked.

 

[GutFeeling!]

The only time I know of that the person had to pay costs was in the CA case. They charged her for all the wasted time and wild goose chases she sent LE on. jmo

Sorry I wasn't clear, I have never heard of anyone paying for searches except for time wasters. I didn't mean they would pay, just that costs are often mentioned

 

[Madilu]

I dont know but I dont think he has changed his mind.

Of course he has to keep all possibilities open but by now I think LE has one theory in mind and I see no evidence that it has anything at all to do with Isa's parents.

IMO

Thanks to whatever swell person posted the following interview:
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18306084/finding-isabel-the-untold-investigation

In line with what you wrote oceanblueyes,
"The detectives who've been working it have gone back over interviews. They've talked to people several times. They just need that one break that's gonna tie things together that they're suspecting," Villasenor said.

I think that is pretty tell-all -They have a theory -they "suspect" they know what may have happened...? I don't think it is directed to the family, but an associate or family of the family.

I go back to Becky saying that 'everybody who meets her falls in love with her.' The wrong person fell in love with her...and wanted her for herself/himself.

 

[pieper4]

Fascinating article posted earlier. There are ~10 captains on the TPD. Of those, at least 4 are in non-related sections of the department. I wonder which captain was on-call that night? Not that it necessarily matters, but sure wish we could hear from him/her directly.

ETA: only nine labelled Division Captain. I could exclude three of those (HR, Admin and Traffic) pretty safely.

 

[CinnamonGirl]

http://www.co.tillamook.or.us/gov/clerk/misc/Passport.htm

According to this website, a child under 6 does not need a passport or ID to enter into Mexico with an adult. So someone could have easily taken her into Mexico.

 

[tlcya]

Question for those familiar with or residents of AZ:

how well patrolled are the non authorized crossing areas? I ask because clearly with the number of illegal immigrants in the country they get here by using stealth and by crossing in areas where they are not seen or asked for documentation.

If we have trouble stemming the tide of people crossing into the US illegally from Mexico, how much easier is it probably to cross from US into Mexico? Just slip across the border, no papers or passports needed.

My point: If this child has been spirited away to Mexico (NOT my belief btw) then I highly doubt it was done by crossing at an authorized entry point and providing documentation.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I agree, all we ever heard is one of dogs reacted to something. It has been speculated, it was a cadaver dog.

This case gives me a hopeless feeling

The very first day, LE brought in dogs from the local prison. I'd think these might be scent dogs. Then the two FBI dogs were brought in. I thought the FBI dogs were used because the prison dogs alerted on something.

 

[LisaB]

or Isabel's step or step step sister?

Huh?

Sergio and Becky have been together since high school. Neither has been married to anyone else. A step sister would not share either parent with Isabel (would be a half-sister if she did). Could you please explain what/who you mean?

 

[Boodles]

Someone posted (sorry, I cannot remember who, but back in this thread somewhere) asking why Isabel was not listed on the FBI Kidnappings and Missing Persons list. What a great question. Why is she not on that list???

 

[cluciano63]

Someone posted (sorry, I cannot remember who, but back in this thread somewhere) asking why Isabel was not listed on the FBI Kidnappings and Missing Persons list. What a great question. Why is she not on that list???

I think it is probably due to the super-efficiency of government agencies...
Probably takes a while...JMO

 

[joedotnet]

Huh?

Sergio and Becky have been together since high school. Neither has been married to anyone else. A step sister would not share either parent with Isabel (would be a half-sister if she did). Could you please explain what/who you mean?

Sorry, I thought this had already been mentioned. I deleted my post.

 

[Boodles]

I think it is probably due to the super-efficiency of government agencies...
Probably takes a while...JMO

I don't think that's it. The Bain girls were on it (and now noted as recovered) and they were abducted April 27, which is after Isabel disappeared.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think that's it. The Bain girls were on it (and now noted as recovered) and they were abducted April 27, which is after Isabel disappeared.

Well they were known to have been taken and by who...with Isabel, it is another one of those mystery cases...