AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[FrayedKnot]

OT: I hope everyone is enjoying beautiful weather wherever you call home. It's sunny and quite summery north of the "D" - same conditions as in Baltimore for the Preakness. My pick - no particular reason - is Went the Day Well.

:bananalama:

High 80's here, reading by the pool and soaking up some melanoma, er, I mean sun!

I, too, hope the lovely weather is everywhere today.

Nice post, BDE!


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[Lava]

Whoa! Hang on!

Is this the only source for the statement that SC had not had any contact with CPS prior to Thursday? His sister?

Has LE or CPS confirmed that claim?

I saw this posted on the thread last night and took it as fact from reliable sources, but I do sorta think SC's sister might be a little biased.

I thought LE stated CPS had made several calls to the home, the last being in Dec. i don't recall them saying they had no contact with SC.

TIA! And thanks for that link!


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We talked a little about this last night. It is MY opinion that she is wrong. She also made his appearance in court sound like he just went to get an extension on dog tags, which I don't believe is the whole truth. He was cited for breaking a law and was appearing in court for that. The way she stated it made it sound like he was just going in to voluntary ask for an extension for the dog tags. Anyways, its just my own opinion.

 

[mamamia54]

High 80's here, reading by the pool and soaking up some melanoma, er, I mean sun!

I, too, hope the lovely weather is everywhere today.

Nice post, BDE!


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Yep, I'm sittin outside myself, music playin and 86 and sunny here today. It's wonderful.

 

[Mjskit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen730
Whatever CPS was looking at in December! Something happend back then we do not know what ..but it could be a reason for the family to say she was abducted if an accident had happend..

Originally Posted by GutFeeling: If there were charges there would be records. So it is safe to assume there were no charges imo




Where I live the only public records would be IF criminal charges were filed against the parents. All records regarding juveniles are sealed. Not sure about A though. IMO
__________________

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO a kidnapping would first involve an abduction. A kidnapping is one form of abduction. Another form would be a parental abduction. A kidnapping is not called a kidnapping until the abductor makes some kind of demand. Until then, a kidnapping is called an abduction. JMO

IMO LE cannot call this a kidnapping until someone has made some kind of demand, be it for custody or money, or revenge.

That is why this case is under the larger umbrella of abduction...IMO

LE has clearly stated in every presser that they are investigating both internal and external possibilities for Isa's dissappearance.

I have read in certain states a person can be charged with kidnapping if they hold someone against their will even inside their own homes.

When Idaho first charged Duncan they charged him with 5 counts of kidnapping and three first degree murders. That was because he held all 5 of them against their will before he murdered three of them and took Shasta and Dylan with him.

If and when the perp is caught who took Isa they will charge him/her with kidnapping whether he/she ever asks for money or not. I have never seen anyone charged with abduction.

Now for those who think Sergio is the perp they may not charge him with kidnapping because he was also a rightful custodial parent of Isa but IMOO...he is not involved.

IMO

 

[elmomom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen730
Whatever CPS was looking at in December! Something happend back then we do not know what ..but it could be a reason for the family to say she was abducted if an accident had happend..

Originally Posted by GutFeeling: If there were charges there would be records. So it is safe to assume there were no charges imo




Where I live the only public records would be IF criminal charges were filed against the parents. All records regarding juveniles are sealed. Not sure about A though. IMO
__________________

Regardless. All that has been said by LE is that CPS made contact. It is not safe to assume that there were charges, and stating that as fact as Eileen did in the original post is just plain wrong.

 

[time]

Thanks. I remember this, too. They have repeated it. I think all three TPD members giving the pressers have stated it.



ETA Thanks Mamamia!

"There's no indication whatsoever that Isabel just got up and left the house on her own," said Tucson police spokeswoman Sgt. Maria Hawke. "She left through the power, through assistance, of someone else. Either somebody took her or inticed her out of the residence in some way, shape or form and so for that reason we cannot just say that she got up and walked out."
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Police-...151631445.html

I'm taking them at their word on this one - that is what they can feel is supported by the evidence and more fully defining 'abduction' at this point veers into the 'different theories' realm.

Not sure, but I feel that while they haven't ruled the parents out, they are still looking at stranger or extended family/acquaintance abduction.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Whoa! Hang on!

Is this the only source for the statement that SC had not had any contact with CPS prior to Thursday? His sister?

Has LE or CPS confirmed that claim?

I saw this posted on the thread last night and took it as fact from reliable sources, but I do sorta think SC's sister might be a little biased.

I thought LE stated CPS had made several calls to the home, the last being in Dec. i don't recall them saying they had no contact with SC.

TIA! And thanks for that link!


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I think the December incident has been way overblown. It may not have even concerned Sergio since he wasnt even spoken to until May of this year. Even LE came out and said it was a MINOR incident and had nothing to do with Isa.

I dont have any reason to believe his sister wouldnt be truthful about something that can be verified. I dont find her biased just because she is his sister but I do think she would really know what happened.

IMO

 

[emeraldeyes85]

OT: I hope everyone is enjoying beautiful weather wherever you call home. It's sunny and quite summery north of the "D" - same conditions as in Baltimore for the Preakness. My pick - no particular reason - is Went the Day Well.

:bananalama:

Bodemeister, trained by Nogales (close to Tucson) native Bobby Baffert

I'll Have Another

Daddy Nose Best


Dark Horse Pick

Went The Day Well

If Bodemeister or Went The Day Well wins I get to retire...

 

[time]

omg let's not do this again...lol...we each do it differently. period. last night i kissed spiderman who forgot to brush his teeth and when i went to tuck in darth realized he never put on a pull-up and i was too tired after a night of 'pirates of the caribbean' to care because they were finally asleep. call cps!

the point of this case is, that we don't know WHO was there to put her to bed, IF she went to bed, WHO ELSE went to bed, in what bed, where, and when.

BC braided her hair and nary a fact since. did she leave? did she and SC have a big fight? was SCJR home? did SC really fall asleep on the couch, and if so, was he waiting up for one of them?

Exactly! Thank you - great post

 

[Deleted member 718]

Whoa! Hang on!

Is this the only source for the statement that SC had not had any contact with CPS prior to Thursday? His sister?

Has LE or CPS confirmed that claim?

I saw this posted on the thread last night and took it as fact from reliable sources, but I do sorta think SC's sister might be a little biased.

I thought LE stated CPS had made several calls to the home, the last being in Dec. i don't recall them saying they had no contact with SC.

TIA! And thanks for that link!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're welcome! I posted an article on page 2 of this thread that said TPD has had several occasions to visit the Celis home. That isn't CPS. TPD said in one of the pressers that the visit last December was the first time CPS had been to the home and it didn't involve the Celis family. HTH

I can't imagine how Sergio must feel that the public was accusing him of animal abuse when it was only a dog at large and no vacc ticket. The court records show he plead not guilty and he was assigned a court date for follow up. Some people seem to run loose with facts.

Why do you think his sister would lie to the public? :waitasec: I don't know how that would help bring Isa home. She's just trying to set the record straight and squelch rumors. Same with Becky when she says to hard to deal with the rumors on top of dealing with Isa missing.

It's like Elizabeth Smart all over again.

 

[mamamia54]

I'm taking them at their word on this one - that is what they can feel is supported by the evidence and more fully defining 'abduction' at this point veers into the 'different theories' realm.

Not sure, but I feel that while they haven't ruled the parents out, they are still looking at stranger or extended family/acquaintance abduction.

I don't think, and it's just my opinion, that they are even thinking of stranger abduction. Somehow this is going to turn out to be something from within family connections, someway, and heaven forbid because whoever did this will pay a huge price. Seriously, if they are reading here, they need to do the right thing and soon.

 

[Whisperer]

Regardless. All that has been said by LE is that CPS made contact. It is not safe to assume that there were charges, and stating that as fact as Eileen did in the original post is just plain wrong.

No matter what the reason, if CPS has cause to visit you, it isn't good. Saying that, I wonder who called CPS on the parents.

Sometimes people use the word, "charges" when they mean allegations. No biggy.

 

[prima.facie]

OT: I hope everyone is enjoying beautiful weather wherever you call home. It's sunny and quite summery north of the "D" - same conditions as in Baltimore for the Preakness. My pick - no particular reason - is Went the Day Well.

:bananalama:

Rainy and cold here :/
I lived in the "D" area for 15yrs ah Preakness...fun times

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Regardless. All that has been said by LE is that CPS made contact. It is not safe to assume that there were charges, and stating that as fact as Eileen did in the original post is just plain wrong.

Especially when LE have said themselves that the incident was minor.

 

[AZlawyer]

I found the CPS manual. The little "F"s are not actually "F"s in the original but little pointy hands.


To determine whether provision of voluntary services is appropriate, consider these questions:


F Are there community or extended family resources available that can help the parent address these concerns without DES involvement? Is the parent willing to use them?

F In conversations with the caregiver, do they acknowledge that there a need for support for their family?

F Based on your conversation with the caregiver, does he/she appear both willing and able to make changes in behavior and/or home environment to reduce the potential for harm to the children?

F Has the parent received services from the department in the past? If so, what was the result?

F Is the parent willing to accept voluntary services from DES?

F What steps can be taken to ensure that the children will remain safe while voluntary services are provided?

 

[AZlawyer]

Also, it appears the 90-day limit is only if the voluntary agreement includes voluntary foster care. If the child remains with a parent, it looks like it can be an open-ended agreement:

Policy: Voluntary child protective services shall be terminated when:

§ the family is able to care for its children safely without DES involvement; or

§ the family no longer wishes to participate in voluntary services and risk factors are not severe enough to warrant a dependency action; or

§ a dependency action must be filed to ensure the safety of the child.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OT: I hope everyone is enjoying beautiful weather wherever you call home. It's sunny and quite summery north of the "D" - same conditions as in Baltimore for the Preakness. My pick - no particular reason - is Went the Day Well.

:bananalama:

I have had a wonderful day Bette and I am glad to see you are enjoying yours too.

I am very tired though but not nearly as tired as my poor hubby who makes all my design visions come to be reality. I designed a 4 foot high rock/stone flower well for our front yard and today my hubby built it for me:woohoo: and it is simply breathtakingly beautiful along with the gorgeous plants he bought and planted in it.

The weather is very nice today (81) and has had a nice breeze blowing all day but I did get a suntan from being outside most of the day. LOL!

I hope everyone has been enjoying their day no matter where they live.

IMO

 

[emeraldeyes85]

Also, it appears the 90-day limit is only if the voluntary agreement includes voluntary foster care. If the child remains with a parent, it looks like it can be an open-ended agreement:

Policy: Voluntary child protective services shall be terminated when:

§ the family is able to care for its children safely without DES involvement; or

§ the family no longer wishes to participate in voluntary services and risk factors are not severe enough to warrant a dependency action; or

§ a dependency action must be filed to ensure the safety of the child.

This what I thought, the 90 days doesnt apply in this case, when it was first mentioned I thought something was amiss. Because it is voluntary it is different than otherwise. Both parties have likely agreed on a time frame which could be 90 days, or more, or less, we do not know at this point.

Good find on the manual I couldnt locate one myself.

 

[Whisperer]

In looking at the house and set-up, what sort of stranger would wait till all the family is home and the dogs are outside to abduct a child? All the stars had to line up for this crime to have happenedl. There were people in all FOUR corners of the house. There was an inside dog and two outside dogs.

A teen boy had to be sound asleep on a Friday night or early morn. The other one also had to preoccupied or asleep. The father and mother both had to be asleep. There dogs had to be asleep and not hear a sound. Removing a screen and walking around the house with Isa while the father slept nearby is no easy feat. Not one adult heard a sound and all four corners of the house have a person in them.

Then we have the little problem of getting a child into a strange car and driving her away from her family. I see there is another home directly across the street from them. I have to wonder what they heard. Somebody else besides the one neighbor had to have heard something.