AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[panthera]

I am in agreement with you though, that the window was probably staged. I was trying to figure out out how it could be done, though. I also ducked right in through the window and made my daughter let me carry her out through it. (my whole family thinks I am cray-cray now, lol)

You are so right about the dogs, mine didn't bark at me, but obviously they know who feeds them. I still cannot figure out how someone would have gotten her out of the yard. That with the fact SC admitted to being on the other side of the wall from her, and his remark that he no longer thought the window was the point of entry/or exit still has me :waitasec:.

To say the least, he confuses me. He is sleeping on the other side of her wall, in the living room, yet somewhat dismisses the point of entry/exit as the window. That assumption would have the perp entering through a door and walking right past him to get to Isabel and remove her from the house. Does he sleep that soundly? And a stranger perp walks past a man sleeping on the sofa to abduct the child? What if Sergio had awakened?

I still believe the window was staged, however, am at a quandry why Sergio would make that statement unless he now realizes how improbable it is? Actually how improbable the whole scenario is with him on the sofa?

:waitasec:

MOO

 

[Madeleine74]

The Celis case with the (allegedly) staged window is very reminiscent of the Madeline McCann case in which her parents claimed an intruder took off with Maddy while they and some friends were about 100 yards away at a Cantina on their vacation. Cadaver dogs hit on a spot behind a couch in the apartment the McCann's rented and also hit on the trunk of their rented car.

No body has been found, no credible sighting of an intruder, no evidence linking anyone to the disappearance. The parents have never been charged, but have continued to be under a cloud of suspicion by many.

For those feeling paranoid about CPS... don't. Sure they could come to your house, but without some kind of incident they're not going to take your kids away. They have to tie it to something.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Were Celina Cass's parents considered suspects by LE? I don't remember if they were ever official suspects. tia

LE usually never comes out and names a suspect by name until they announce an arrest has been made nor do they rule anyone out before the arrest is made.

They will occasionally list someone as the suspect or POI and they do it specifically by name.. not as a group. Usually those are cases that involved domestic violence issues where the spouse or ex spouse is believed to be the one who has murdered their missing ex-spouse. Now if police discover evidence quickly like they did in Zahra Baker's case against her wretched evil stepmom they will come out and name them the suspect..etc.

Here in this case it is pretty much like the majority of LE does it and they rule no one out including family members and they dont come out and name people by their names who they have ruled out behind the scenes either.

They didnt do it in Somer Thompson, Shasta and Dylan Greone, Jessica Lunsford or Elizabeth Smart's case and not even in the Samatha Runion case even though the little 5 year old playmate told police she saw a man kidnap Sam out of the yard and some of these cases went on for weeks or many months before the real perp was finally caught.

IMO

 

[abstr]

I haven't read anything about that, but to be fair, if my child played on a team and the coach was a POI in his daughter's disappearance and he had a voluntary amicable agreement with CPS not to have any contact with his sons, I would hope that the coach would be removed pending further investigation. I mean, you don't take chances with your kids!

And as a parent, I'd be hesitant to speak publicly about SC and not wanting him around my child. If any of the local rumors are true, no matter how farfetched, I don't want any skeery folks showing up at my door in SC's defense.

It's not likely, but again, I don't take big chances like that with my precious girl!

I get that. What I questioned was someone getting hinky because a person was a coach. In this case I think SC should not be coaching at this point. I don't think the fact that he was a coach raises the hackles....All MOO

 

[mck16]

I would love to see the transcript of NG because that is not what I remember at all.

Well, I am sure you can find it. It is the show where NG was trying to get him to say he made a statement that SC told him his phone was bugged. But, she couldn't get him to say it. The interview was also with that little guy that gets confused a lot. jmo

 

[Patty G]

Not my friend. I was the person questioning the post

:blushing: My sincere apologies, I read it the wrong way. :blushing: I will delete my post. :blushing:

 

[mamamia54]

to say the least, he confuses me. He is sleeping on the other side of her wall, in the living room, yet somewhat dismisses the point of entry/exit as the window. That assumption would have the perp entering through a door and walking right past him to get to isabel and remove her from the house. Does he sleep that soundly? And a stranger perp walks past a man sleeping on the sofa to abduct the child? What if sergio had awakened?

I still believe the window was staged, however, am at a quandry why sergio would make that statement unless he now realizes how improbable it is? Actually how improbable the whole scenario is with him on the sofa?

:waitasec:

Moo

exactly!!!!

 

[Lava]

I will say one thing, I am now officially worried that CPS could come to my house at any moment.

I had no idea there are so many seemingly benign reasons that they could do this.

I was always under the impression where there is smoke, there is fire, but from hearing so many different scenarios, it seems everyone is at risk, no matter how well you think your parenting is. JMOO (the you was not directed at anyone, just a general you as in people).

Don't be too worried. If someone makes a call reporting you, yes CPS will probably come out and do a little investigation, but if it is something silly they won't open a case. My sister has had 2 false calls against her this year from her ex husband and they investigated but found the claims "unfounded" and have threatened to prosecute him if he does it again. But, I would recommend speaking with lawyer before signing anything from CPS or any of their "suggested" ideas (like classes).

 

[GutFeeling!]

No, it wasn't a police order, and I doubt it was an order that included being arrested if violated. For instance, the sister I have that had her children taken away was asked by CPS to leave her husbands house, with the children, because he was a danger. At first she agreed, made the plans, and left for the night. The next day she was back at the house and when CPS found out she was not arrested (because it was not an official no contact order), but her children were taken from her. We don't know what the CPS order, or "request" was, let alone what it entails.

Once an order by CPS is broken it becomes criminal. I am only speaking from experience. RC holds the cards as to what she will and won't accept.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not my friend. I was the person questioning the post

I know which poster is the friend, abstr, and I knew it wasnt you. I was just commenting about the other poster who said her friend may have known Sergio some 17 years ago.

 

[Donjeta]

It may be just me but I can't say that I know the coaches in any of my children's sports teams well enough that I could vouch that they're above all suspicion if the police couldn't. I don't suspect them of anything now... but if something happened with their own kids, I really couldn't say that it couldn't be true. It's just a superficial acquaintance for me.

 

[abstr]

Well, I am sure you can find it. It is the show where NG was trying to get him to say he made a statement that SC told him his phone was bugged. But, she couldn't get him to say it. The interview was also with that little guy that gets confused a lot. jmo

Thanks. I am sure I could. I thought if we stated things as fact here we should be able to back it up.......:what:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Can I suggest a MOD link? A quick link.Just a thought

There is one! If you look at the upper right corner of each message box, there is a triangle with an exclamation point in it. Click on that and a "reply" page comes up. You just write a note about your concerns and a mod will read it.

It's really easy and quick.

 

[Madeleine74]

You have to use some logic to determine if the window could have been a point of entry or exit. How could an intruder not make a sound either going in a window or out of a window, let alone taking a screen off of a window frame? Those activities do make some noise.

And if an intruder did not enter or exit through a window, why would an intruder stay around to 'stage' a window as part of a scene? They wouldn't. That too defies logic.

Therefore, if a scenario doesn't make logical sense it needs to be put way, way down a list or altogether discarded, rather than create scenarios of how it could have theoretically happened if you have a, b, c all in your favor.

 

[Donjeta]

GRACE: Joining me tonight in a primetime exclusive is a very dear friend of the Celis family. Joe Vega is joining us. Joe, I know that you have spoken to Sergio Celis, Isabel`s father, since he was barred from contact with his two remaining boys. Has he taken a polygraph? And if so, did he pass it?

VEGA: That I don`t know. I didn`t -- we have not talked about that. All I know is basically what you know, what I`ve heard. I don`t know if he has. I don`t know if he passed. That`s not even an issue for me at all. I didn`t ask him about that. He didn`t tell me about that.

GRACE: What do you guys talk about, Joe?

VEGA: I called him Saturday to ask if his son was going to attend our baseball game. We had a baseball game Saturday night, to find out if he was going to be there. I called him Saturday morning. He didn`t answer the phone. I left him a message.

He returned my call Saturday afternoon to let me know his son wasn`t going to go to the game. I did ask him, you know, What`s going on? And I`ve heard some things. And he couldn`t go -- he told me he couldn`t go into it.

He kind of broke down a little bit, and I could tell he was hurting because of the boys, couldn`t be with the boys. He was letting me know that he could, hopefully, soon talk to me more. He just couldn`t at that time.

It was just basically a quick conversation to let me know his boy wasn`t going to be at our game. I`m the one that asked for more information. He couldn`t give me any. And we left it at that.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/15/ng.01.html

I misremembered, JV called SC to ask him if his son was coming to their game.

 

[Lava]

Once an order by CPS is broken it becomes criminal. I am only speaking from experience. RC holds the cards as to what she will and won't accept.

Not if it is voluntary. Yes CPS can take you to court and take your kids away, but it doesn't mean they will arrest you (unless you were actually ORDERED to stay away, and didn't agree to this voluntarily as precaution).

 

[Patty G]

I would love to see the transcript of NG because that is not what I remember at all.

Here is a list of NG's transcripts. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html

She covered Isa's case on the 14th, 15th and 17th.

 

[abstr]

GRACE: Joining me tonight in a primetime exclusive is a very dear friend of the Celis family. Joe Vega is joining us. Joe, I know that you have spoken to Sergio Celis, Isabel`s father, since he was barred from contact with his two remaining boys. Has he taken a polygraph? And if so, did he pass it?

VEGA: That I don`t know. I didn`t -- we have not talked about that. All I know is basically what you know, what I`ve heard. I don`t know if he has. I don`t know if he passed. That`s not even an issue for me at all. I didn`t ask him about that. He didn`t tell me about that.

GRACE: What do you guys talk about, Joe?

VEGA: I called him Saturday to ask if his son was going to attend our baseball game. We had a baseball game Saturday night, to find out if he was going to be there. I called him Saturday morning. He didn`t answer the phone. I left him a message.

He returned my call Saturday afternoon to let me know his son wasn`t going to go to the game. I did ask him, you know, What`s going on? And I`ve heard some things. And he couldn`t go -- he told me he couldn`t go into it.

He kind of broke down a little bit, and I could tell he was hurting because of the boys, couldn`t be with the boys. He was letting me know that he could, hopefully, soon talk to me more. He just couldn`t at that time.

It was just basically a quick conversation to let me know his boy wasn`t going to be at our game. I`m the one that asked for more information. He couldn`t give me any. And we left it at that.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/15/ng.01.html

I misremembered, JV called SC to ask him if his son was coming to their game.

Thanks for doing someone elses work. As I said that wasn't about how the son was doing in baseball.
I know I am a ***** but I hate things being misconstrued.

 

[mamamia54]

You have to use some logic to determine if the window could have been a point of entry or exit. How could an intruder not make a sound either going in a window or out of a window, let alone taking a screen off of a window frame? Those activities do make some noise.

And if an intruder did not enter or exit through a window, why would an intruder stay around to 'stage' a window as part of a scene? They wouldn't. That too defies logic.

Therefore, if a scenario doesn't make logical sense it needs to be put way, way down a list or altogether discarded, rather than create scenarios of how it could have theoretically happened if you have a, b, c all in your favor.

The screen being off could mean a few things, one being that it was physically taken out, from the outside, or inside, that it could have been kicked out by Isa flailing around with a hand over her mouth. OR, someone was able to slink past a sleeping Serigo. All in all, the dogs apparently did bark.

 

[abstr]

Here is a list of NG's transcripts. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html

She covered Isa's case on the 14th, 15th and 17th.

Thank you. I can call them up but I think when a poster states something as fact they need to do the work