AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[FrayedKnot]

Then do you also agree with his statement about being so close to the Mexican border that it's at least a possibility?

Your question wasn't directed at me, but yes, I think it's a possibility and was glad to hear someone with a local view and a degree of reliability say it on television.

JMO


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[GrainneDhu]

Its still frightening to think someone can just make up some chit about someone and has CPS at their door because of it. I am aware of false complaints being filed simply because the complaintant had it in for the person. I have read here in the past about others talking about their own nightmares when someone was so mean spirited to do something like this.

CPS has to follow up on these false allegations too and they are already overloaded with casework as it is.

I have never had any contact with CPS but I can see how it would scare someone to death if they happened to show up at their door. Even though I would know they would find absolutely no facts supporting any abuse or neglect allegations..it will still be stressful just having to deal with them to get it all straightened out.

Knowing how slow any government agency is it would probably take them months to even decide there was nothing to it.

IMO

States vary.

In my state, if you are investigated by CPS for any reason, your name goes into their publicly searchable database with the results of the investigation.

If the charges were ruled unfounded, then your name stays in the database for ten years.

It was a sickening feeling for me knowing my name was there because I could imagine a dozen different ways it could be used against me. If I had ever wanted a job that included contact with children, for instance, I'm sure I would have had to explain those unfounded allegations.

And who knows if the person I was explaining them to would believe me?

 

[FrayedKnot]

I think Frayed was making a joke, as in outer-space Aliens.

Thanks. I was making a joke. I see it wasn't well received. I guess I will still be going to work tomorrow!


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[mamamia54]

It's so funny how some people will make statements, give their opinion and then not answer direct questions by a poster on other statements that they have overlooked within that same realm. Would it be that the other statements were being completely ignored, or the poster who asked the question is being ignored? I don't know, JMHO of course as always.

 

[johnQpublic]

Just a thought in thinking about theories of what could of happened and one theory I thought of was that perhaps it might be possible that Uncle J (with his suspended DL)and SC went for a nighttime desert trail ride ( something I used to do in my 4x4 ) in his Jeep and Isabel went along for the ride and fell out of the Jeep and something tragic occured. JM already known to LE for having a seriously bad rap sheet and SC not wanting to see his relative end up in prison for what happened.. The two did what they had to do and staged everything else at the house. ..IDK it's just a scenario of something that seemed possible.. I used to go out on night time desert rides when it was nice out just to get out of the cities ambient light so I could gaze at the stars... Out in the desert in AZ the view of the night sky is a wonderful sight.

 

[prima.facie]

Where on this floorplan was Isa's room again?
Where did SC say he was watching the game? in the Den?
If there was another perp who came in through window and then out say the front door, could he have not had to pass SC on the couch in the Den?
Just trying to get a picture here..
I have always throught it unlikely to take a child out a window and over a wall, but it did not look like the Celis' locked the front gate when those creepy neighbors were caught with the door open on the news? I thought that was the Celis yard door. I thought if it was a stranger abduction, she could have been carried out the door.
Thoughts?

as far as i know....we dont know....we know no details....

 

[mamamia54]

Your question wasn't directed at me, but yes, I think it's a possibility and was glad to hear someone with a local view and a degree of reliability say it on television.

JMO


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Thank you!!

 

[FrayedKnot]

I would like to know if the parents hadbeen drug tested!

I'm not sure, but I don't think there is any way LE could require them to do so.

If they wanted to volunteer just to clear up the suspicion on the drug rumors, then that would be up to them. JMO




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[Prof]

as far as i know....we dont know....we know no details....

right, the question was for the speculation that it was doubtful a stranger would have walked by the SC sleeping on the couch-- I wanted some input on where those posters might imagine SC sleeping on the couch, and where the a perp would not have walked by if there was a perp lol
sorry to be so confusing.
I am just confused today.

IMO if there was a stranger abduction, he could have come in Isa's window and carried her out the living room front door and out the front gate, if SC was on the DEN couch and the perp would not have walked by him..

 

[pieper4]

Where on this floorplan was Isa's room again?
Where did SC say he was watching the game? in the Den?
If there was another perp who came in through window and then out say the front door, could he have not had to pass SC on the couch in the Den?
Just trying to get a picture here..
I have always throught it unlikely to take a child out a window and over a wall, but it did not look like the Celis' locked the front gate when those creepy neighbors were caught with the door open on the news? I thought that was the Celis yard door. I thought if it was a stranger abduction, she could have been carried out the door.
Thoughts?

I hate this floor plan. It makes no sense. The door in the fence/wall is to their front door, is it not? It opens into a courtyard to the front door. It looks like the common entry style we see here often. Kind of like

on a less-grand scale. These are not always locked, otherwise no one can get to your front door. Many lock them only overnight.

 

[Dee10]

Until an arrest, and possibly even after, LE will never openly talk about any angle or suspicion. They preserve the investigation for legal reasons, so the case can (eventually) go to the DA and any defendant's rights are preserved.

They'll say generic things like, "we haven't ruled anyone out," or "we are looking at all possible angles." And that is deliberate so that no defense attorney in the future can argue to a jury, "my client was railroaded! The police never even considered other possible people or scenarios and they tried to influence public opinion against my client."

Doesn't mean LE isn't leaning one way...I'd put $$$$ on it. They will not, however, come out and say so.

ITA & in these kinds of cases, it is not so much what LE says; it is watching what they do. I find it more valuable to find out who they search, who they talk to and figure out who the focus is on.

 

[Lava]

Until an arrest, and possibly even after, LE will never openly talk about any angle or suspicion. They preserve the investigation for legal reasons, so the case can (eventually) go to the DA and any defendant's rights are preserved.

They'll say generic things like, "we haven't ruled anyone out," or "we are looking at all possible angles." And that is deliberate so that no defense attorney in the future can argue to a jury, "my client was railroaded! The police never even considered other possible people or scenarios and they tried to influence public opinion against my client."

Doesn't mean LE isn't leaning one way...I'd put $$$$ on it. They will not, however, come out and say so.

While that is true in most cases, in this case LE has even specifically said how many officers are working on the family, and how many are working on other avenues. I think it is clear they have a suspect in mind, but I think it is also clear they honestly haven't ruled anything out.

 

[mamamia54]

right, the question was for the speculation that it was doubtful a stranger would have walked by the SC sleeping on the couch-- I wanted some input on where those posters might imagine SC sleeping on the couch, and where the a perp would not have walked by if there was a perp lol

Has it ever been verified in which room Sergio was suppose to have been sleeping on the sofa? There is a den and a familyroom. If it was the familyroom, then she would need to have been carried out past a sleeping Sergio, the den, not likely.

 

[pinkfly]

I am still catching up but I do feel a very creepy connection with SG leaning on the fence watching the vigil and RC talking so much about him and wanting everyone to support him.....and then his sister trying to apply her own influence. This leaves me uncomfortably thinking that SC might still be exerting the very influence that the ‘voluntary agreement’ might have been in place to control.

 

[Donjeta]

Is the way to the garage really through the bathroom?

 

[panthera]

Where on this floorplan was Isa's room again?
Where did SC say he was watching the game? in the Den?
If there was another perp who came in through window and then out say the front door, could he have not had to pass SC on the couch in the Den?
Just trying to get a picture here..
I have always throught it unlikely to take a child out a window and over a wall, but it did not look like the Celis' locked the front gate when those creepy neighbors were caught with the door open on the news? I thought that was the Celis yard door. I thought if it was a stranger abduction, she could have been carried out the door.
Thoughts?

I thought it was the bedroom where the sofa would be on the other side of the bedroom wall - meaning he was in the family room which would make her bedroom the one toward the back of the house.

MOO

 

[prima.facie]

right, the question was for the speculation that it was doubtful a stranger would have walked by the SC sleeping on the couch-- I wanted some input on where those posters might imagine SC sleeping on the couch, and where the a perp would not have walked by if there was a perp lol
sorry to be so confusing.
I am just confused today.

ah ha! ok. ignore me then. :giggle: :genie:

 

[white rabbit]

Good point. Has it ever been stated who put her to bed, if she had gotten up during the night, and so forth? If Sergio was watching the baseball game on TV and slept on the sofa, she would have to walk past him to get out both the front and back door. I do believe she was in her own room that night otherwise the boys could have said she was in their room with them.

MOO

nope. we don't know who of the 5 went to bed at what time nor where. SC, BC, and LE have never answered that question. come to think of it, i'm not sure it was ever asked.

i believe at this point (subject to change) that BC left that night, judging from their statements on the 911.

Dispatcher: Okay. Is mom there also?
Sergio: Uh, she had just left for work, I just called her and I told her to get her butt home. (chuckles)

she had just left for work when?...when you found isa missing (at 6:30am?) or had just left for work when you spoke to her on the phone as she was leaving a relative's house?

Q – So who, who noticed her gone, your husband?
A2 – My husband, I went to work this morning at seven and um, I just, and I didn't even come and check on her, I should have come and checked on her.

come, meaning, back to the house, IMO. i'm not a statement analyzer but these two quotes really stand out for me.

this is all jmo...and like eileen, i'd like to know when the boys last saw her as well...

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18395708/celis-911-call-someone-broke-in-and-grabbed-her

 

[Patty G]

Where on this floorplan was Isa's room again?
Where did SC say he was watching the game? in the Den?
If there was another perp who came in through window and then out say the front door, could he have not had to pass SC on the couch in the Den?
Just trying to get a picture here..
I have always throught it unlikely to take a child out a window and over a wall, but it did not look like the Celis' locked the front gate when those creepy neighbors were caught with the door open on the news? I thought that was the Celis yard door. I thought if it was a stranger abduction, she could have been carried out the door.
Thoughts?

Isa's bedroom is next to the Den. SC stated he was on the opposite side of the wall from Isa, so that could be the family room or the den. I am thinking he was more in the famly room.

In the pic below, Isa's bedroom is the one with the full window.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think the abductor was in the home. Isa was lured outside. She walked past her sleeping dad and out the door. Still an abduction as she was taken unwillingly from her yard. Even Sergio and LE doubt the window was the access point. IMO

I'll play the devil's advocate today. :seeya:

I think she would have told her dad, especially if he was right there on the couch, that there was a man at her window...JMO