AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[Madeleine74]

We were trying to understand what it means for the toy shelf, mirror, and dresser in Isa's room to be processed for latent prints with negative results.

It means they found no prints. Why are there no prints on those items? They could have been cleaned and/or wiped at some point and not touched after.

Fingerprint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not every item will yield prints. Not every touch on an item will leave a print. Depends on the item, what it's made of, and depends on the person and their unique characteristics, and more things than I'm sure I could even guess at. Sometimes the absence of a print on an item that would be expected to have prints can be suspicious. For instance, a wall switch/light plate where you would touch to turn on a room light. A doorknob. Common areas one would expect to find prints. If everything is void of prints LE would wonder about that.

 

[Allusonz]

There could be a number of reasons with respect to fingerprints.

First it depends on how many surfaces were tested.

Secondly, they may of tested and found a partial or unusable print.

Did they exclude family members prints and we only heard of the ones that were of interest to them?

It does not mean to say that the room was wiped down. We will only know what they found when that information is released.

 

[winterrose]

I have a question for you and madeleine74.

In thread #21 we were discussing latent fingerprints. It started with winterrose's post #389 and continued off and on through lark2's post #630.

We were trying to understand what it means for the toy shelf, mirror, and dresser in Isa's room to be processed for latent prints with negative results.

Maybe you have answered this and I missed it, but are there common reasons why frequently used surfaces would show negative results for latent prints?

There were no prints on toyshelf, books on toyshelf, mirror on dresser next to the window and dresser top. A six year old with no prints on any of these, I just can't believe it. They were looking for prints, they would have checked all over those things. KWIM

 

[prima.facie]

I have a question for you and madeleine74.

In thread #21 we were discussing latent fingerprints. It started with winterrose's post #389 and continued off and on through lark2's post #630.

We were trying to understand what it means for the toy shelf, mirror, and dresser in Isa's room to be processed for latent prints with negative results.

Maybe you have answered this and I missed it, but are there common reasons why frequently used surfaces would show negative results for latent prints?

i dont have the docs in front of me.....and im tired so not sure my answer will suffice right now lol...

but did they say no prints were found or did they say no prints were found that didnt belong to known persons?

id need to see the wording....
but its possible the room had been cleaned and in the time it was cleaned and her missing, nobody had left a print....i have many surfaces in my home that would be like this..

or there were smudged prints...

 

[winterrose]

They said negative. It also looks like two items or two areas that were checked for blood and that was blackened out.

 

[Allusonz]

They said negative. It also looks like two items or two areas that were checked for blood and that was blackened out.

From what was included this was very specific to two areas.

The main one being the window.

 

[prima.facie]

They said negative. It also looks like two items or two areas that were checked for blood and that was blackened out.

ok thanks!

based on that, i would think that everything had been cleaned and from the time of cleaning until CSI was there, nobody had touchd the surfaces leaving prints.

so the 3 prints lifted were from INSIDE....and we do not know the analysis of those prints....

 

[winterrose]

From what was included this was very specific to two areas.

The main one being the window.

We don't have a layout of her room or anything in it, so not sure what all was in there. I don't know how much more they'd have but a bed, dresser and toyshelf as far as furniture. The only other thing I would think is she didn't sleep in there as it was suggested, but if that's her blood, she was in there that night. There was the closet, but no mention of prints one way or the other.

 

[Allusonz]

We don't have a layout of her room or anything in it, so not sure what all was in there. I don't know how much more they'd have but a bed, dresser and toyshelf as far as furniture. The only other thing I would think is she didn't sleep in there as it was suggested, but if that's her blood, she was in there that night.

You cannot "date" blood or DNA.

We have one to 2 paragraphs specific to 2 areas. It does not state other areas tested.

This is a very limited amount of information that was released which could turn out to be the only areas tested or just a few of many that were.

There could be a number of prints that could not be used for a variety of reasons. We will often see this once the reports are released.

Until that time it is speculation.

 

[winterrose]

The offc said the bedding had already been taken by detectives, before he got there. They didn't say anything was missing in her room or bedding, which first I thought maybe they would say. But I know they don't report everything, because you have crazies wanting to confess and only the real suspect would know details not put out in public.

 

[winterrose]

You cannot "date" blood.

We have one to 2 paragraphs specific to 2 areas. It does not state other areas tested.

This is a very limited amount of information that was released which could turn out to be the only areas tested or just a few of many that were.

There could be a number of prints that could not be used for a variety of reasons. We will often see this once the reports are released.

Until that time it is speculation.

I think the stains on the shower curtain were reddish brown, I doubt that was anything but just stains. If it's glossy reddish brown in the bedroom it would be drying blood, but I don't think they said it was like that in the room, did they? I can't remember.

 

[Allusonz]

I think the stains on the shower curtain was reddish brown, I doubt that was anything but just stains. If it's glossy reddish brown in the bedroom it would be drying blood, but I don't think they said it was like that in the room, did they? I can't remember.

I have a difficult time believing that blood stains specifically were found on a vinyl shower curtain. I could see it if it had some sort of cloth curtain as a set. I as well query the colour found of the stains in the bathroom.

Until we get to see those reports we truly are speculating.

I believe IIRC the wording used repeatedly was "apparent blood" for the most part throughout the documentation that was released. I would think we will not see much more of the testing results until/or if there is a trial.

At this point in time you are correct we do not know if it is blood. If it is, is it human or animal? Is it LCN DNA which are very minute amounts? Once we see the reports generated from the .fsa files then we will have a basis to make some assumptions.

 

[Whisperer]

Usually the word "Apparent" weakens a statement, just as the words "I believe" do. It is my thought that LE saw blood on the floor. I take it to mean that is was blood and it was obvious to all of them that it was blood. In this case the word apparant may mean it was indeed blood. Now, all I want them to tell is how much blood are they talking about...and then who does it belong to?

 

[Whisperer]

If there were no prints on the dresser, then I can assume that no one in the family put clothes in Isa's dresser and no one took clothes out since the last time it was cleaned and polished. I wonder when that was.

 

[Whisperer]

Did Isa attend School that fateful day? If not, why not?

What time was Isa's game the next day?

 

[Whisperer]

Sergio mentioned they all took showers. Does the curtain in the car connect to any of them?

Who all took showers? Everyone? Who changed clothes? Did Isa? I guess they must have found clothes in other parts of the house for her because nobody touched her dresser. No latent Prints found.

 

[Whisperer]

Remeber the words:

"The perp did an adequate job of covering all the places we would normally look for evidence"....

The windows, beds, window sill, light switches, doors, screens, locks, cars. Speaking of cars. Becky had hers. The first thing they would do is feel the hood of the cars to see if one warm. That didn't work out well for LE either. Becky drove her car to work...EARLY.

 

[azmary]

Sergio mentioned they all took showers. Does the curtain in the car connect to any of them?

Who all took showers? Everyone? Who changed clothes? Did Isa? I guess they must have found clothes in other parts of the house for her because nobody touched her dresser. No latent Prints found.

My kids are grown but I have asked a lot of co-workers if a 6 yr old takes a shower 100% say no. They take baths. So I wonder why IC would be taking a shower.:read:

 

[insatiable]

My kids are grown but I have asked a lot of co-workers if a 6 yr old takes a shower 100% say no. They take baths. So I wonder why IC would be taking a shower.:read:

Both of my children would take baths AND showers at 6yrs old.

 

[MBK]

Did Isa attend School that fateful day? If not, why not?

What time was Isa's game the next day?

Her game was at 9, and in the doc dump, it mentions that Isabel's little league coach said Sergio called him to say that Isabel was missing, and wouldn't be playing. (Yes, I've mentioned this before in a thread, but I think it bears repeating!)