AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[white rabbit]

yes, we all bathe our children differently...but do any of us store a moldy/bloody/rusty shower curtain in our driveway klunker under 100 degree heat? ew.

for all the dog owners (i am not one)...is there any possibility that the C's dogs themselves, obviously unknowingly, compromised evidence? such as, licking up fluids/spills...lapping at the window sill (a scent one of the k-9's 'hit' on?), stirring up dirt thereby hiding footprints...? what i'm asking is if the very presence of their own dogs somehow distracted or alerted the scent-sniffers. i really don't know, it's a naive question. TIA.

 

[BaxterDE42]

@spoiledmom

Thanks for the info. Up thread or perhaps another thread, someone posted a video of a nasty looking tunnel in that area. I am not familiar with the desert country. Gotta live where there is grass beneath my feet.

 

[insatiable]

yes, we all bathe our children differently...but do any of us store a moldy/bloody/rusty shower curtain in our driveway klunker under 100 degree heat? ew.

for all the dog owners (i am not one)...is there any possibility that the C's dogs themselves, obviously unknowingly, compromised evidence? such as, licking up fluids/spills...lapping at the window sill (a scent one of the k-9's 'hit' on?), stirring up dirt thereby hiding footprints...? what i'm asking is if the very presence of their own dogs somehow distracted or alerted the scent-sniffers. i really don't know, it's a naive question. TIA.

Weren't the dogs outside? Maybe I'm wrong but that is the impression I was under because of the neighbors hearing the barking.

 

[LisaB]

My latest thought (excuse me, it's been a long day) - - - it's pretty hard to remove a BEDSKIRT. (One was found in one of the washes, right?) IF (big if), it's from Isabel's bed, that took EFFORT. Often, you'd have to remove the top mattress to get at the bedskirt. Hmmph.

Every one I have seen is ruffled (or pleated) only on three sides. with the top edge just lining up with the top of the boxspring. Removing it is simple on a twin bed, as the upper mattress isn't terribly heavy. You can just pull the bedskirt from the bottom and it will slide out.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Every one I have seen is ruffled (or pleated) only on three sides. with the top edge just lining up with the top of the boxspring. Removing it is simple on a twin bed, as the upper mattress isn't terribly heavy. You can just pull the bedskirt from the bottom and it will slide out.

That would be true for a dust ruffle (bedskirt) for a typical twin bed, but there are full bedskirts for "day beds" where both head and foot ends are visible.

 

[LisaB]

AR, Couple of questions : what do you mean exactly by " the backyard dirt may have been hardpacked because of the dogs " ??

Also, were there ANY footprints at all within the walled parameter of the Celis' yard ?

Two years ago I reclaimed my home from renters. The place was a DISASTER! It took THOUSANDS of dollars to make it livable, and I still find little surprises now and then. When they applied to rent from me, 5 years earlier, they indicated it was a mom and dad my age and their 16 year old son. They stated they had one dog.

When I came to renew their lease after 2 years, I brought a camera. The place was still in good shape, but they had moved the son's girlfriend in, as well as their older daughter and her three kids. This is a 2 bedroom home, BTW. I also saw a cat (it is in one of the photos), but somehow didn't think about them having said they had only one dog. I never looked in the rear yard when I was there at that time.

They moved out owing me several thousand dollars in rent and about the same in damages. When I got the house back, I had to remove a lot of flooring that had pet stains on it. I had to patch huge holes in the wall, and when I went out back, the ground was hard, bare dirt. It looked like the dog (neighbors later told me that they had had SEVERAL pit bulls) had killed off the grass, and the topsoil was then free to wash away when it rained. All that was left was REALLY hard and compressed clay. They had also dug a few "pits" and had chewed through the wires to the whole-house air conditioner.

It took me several days with a shovel to loosen it up into BIG chunks, then time with a rake to break those up. It was a very hot, dry summer and I eventually got a presentable lawn, but it was a HUGE effort. This area was only 12'x20'. A professional quoted me $900 to do this work (that was the low bidder).

Side note:
The tenants were insistent that there was never grass in that rear yard, but I have receipts from having it mowed up until the time they moved in. I pulled up Google Street View at one point, hoping to see what size the tree I planted when I moved in was at that time... but Street View took me to the rear of the house instead, looking into the yard from the alley. There were items clearly in view that belonged to my tenants, and there was grass covering most of the yard, aside from a path their grandchildren had made from the rear door to their spring horse. I screen captured it and included it in my collection efforts, which proved futile anyway.

The back yard was just slightly softer than concrete. It would not have shown footprints in dry weather, and probably not even on a wet day, it was THAT hard.

 

[GutFeeling!]

I had a restless night last night, couldn't get this child out of my mind - Let today be the day that she comes home. <3

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I would also like to know what time SC called the coach. I could see myself forgetting to call because it was such an early game and given the panic of the situation there from 7:54 (?)- 9 am game-but a coach needs to know who is playing for the line - up and positions. I bet IC was one of the better players so maybe she was one of the leaders- ( i know crazy at 6 -right?)pitching or batting early.

When I first learned about the call to the coach, I thought it seemed odd under the circumstances, but the more I thought about it, not so much - for the reasons that you've suggested as well as trying to remain somewhat in control of oneself in the midst of chaos. Here's an example:

My mom died quite unexpectedly following a fall in which she broke her hip and suffered a mild heart attack (she was 87). She'd been stabilized, and we thought that she would make a full recovery, but she suffered another heart attack and was placed on a respirator long enough for local family to gather at the hospital. Mom expired at 5:30PM, and after instructing the critical care nurse about funeral arrangements, I invited my siblings to our home, and my brothers said that they'd stop for pizza on their way. When they arrived, one brother asked to use the phone and called CVS to cancel some prescriptions that were being renewed for Mom. This action stunned one of my sisters into disbelief :what: that our brother would think about something like this when his mother had died less than an hour ago!

Long story short, we all react differently during periods of stress and when we're in shock. I handled the sudden loss of my mother as the dutiful oldest daughter and then wanted to rush home so that I could uke: - literally.

:moo:

 

[liz b.]

Two years ago I reclaimed my home from renters. The place was a DISASTER! It took THOUSANDS of dollars to make it livable, and I still find little surprises now and then. When they applied to rent from me, 5 years earlier, they indicated it was a mom and dad my age and their 16 year old son. They stated they had one dog.

When I came to renew their lease after 2 years, I brought a camera. The place was still in good shape, but they had moved the son's girlfriend in, as well as their older daughter and her three kids. This is a 2 bedroom home, BTW. I also saw a cat (it is in one of the photos), but somehow didn't think about them having said they had only one dog. I never looked in the rear yard when I was there at that time.

They moved out owing me several thousand dollars in rent and about the same in damages. When I got the house back, I had to remove a lot of flooring that had pet stains on it. I had to patch huge holes in the wall, and when I went out back, the ground was hard, bare dirt. It looked like the dog (neighbors later told me that they had had SEVERAL pit bulls) had killed off the grass, and the topsoil was then free to wash away when it rained. All that was left was REALLY hard and compressed clay. They had also dug a few "pits" and had chewed through the wires to the whole-house air conditioner.

It took me several days with a shovel to loosen it up into BIG chunks, then time with a rake to break those up. It was a very hot, dry summer and I eventually got a presentable lawn, but it was a HUGE effort. This area was only 12'x20'. A professional quoted me $900 to do this work (that was the low bidder).

Side note:
The tenants were insistent that there was never grass in that rear yard, but I have receipts from having it mowed up until the time they moved in. I pulled up Google Street View at one point, hoping to see what size the tree I planted when I moved in was at that time... but Street View took me to the rear of the house instead, looking into the yard from the alley. There were items clearly in view that belonged to my tenants, and there was grass covering most of the yard, aside from a path their grandchildren had made from the rear door to their spring horse. I screen captured it and included it in my collection efforts, which proved futile anyway.

The back yard was just slightly softer than concrete. It would not have shown footprints in dry weather, and probably not even on a wet day, it was THAT hard.

Thank you for recounting your own personal anecdote. I have one too : some years ago one of my sons lived in Albuquerque. He had a house with a guesthouse some distance from his main house. One day he noticed footprints around the guesthouse, and leading to the guesthouse. It was packed dirt, and this was,IRRC, in the early fall. Turns out a homeless couple had been sleeping in his guesthouse. So, I guess it all depends. In the case of the Celis house, who really knows ? Other than LE and the person(s) who harmed Isabel by taking her from the supposed safety of her bed... Just some thoughts, and JMO

 

[white rabbit]

Weren't the dogs outside? Maybe I'm wrong but that is the impression I was under because of the neighbors hearing the barking.

but if the crime...abduction...occured at 2am or 3am? and if the dogs were brought inside (to stop the barking) after 6:30am?

i'm just asking if the c's dogs could have compromised the scene...at whatever time. and if they were outside, they could easily reach that window sill (the larger one at least) and lick it, if on hind legs...no?

 

[Ladylub]

My kids are grown but I have asked a lot of co-workers if a 6 yr old takes a shower 100% say no. They take baths. So I wonder why IC would be taking a shower.:read:

My 6 yr old is taking showers. She has been for a yr now. I'm teaching my 4 yr old son how to shower now. Of course Ill be in the bathroom with him since he still needs help getting soap out his hair and washing his body correctly. My 6 yr old stays by herself with the door open and I check on her but for the most part she is showering while I cook so I yell to see if she is okay. Isa is 3 months older then my daughter so I have no doubt in my mind that she would be capable of handling a shower.

 

[leighmarker]

quick question, I don't even know where to look.. was the dad blocked by authorities to see/speak etc. with the boys before or after the DNA was done?

 

[Ladylub]

ok so a 6yr old can take a shower , can they do their own long hair alone or would an adult need to help them? And can they comb out their own hair. It has been so many years I don't remember.

My daughter can do her hair. This includes shampooing and conditioning when needed. She has thin curly hair and it goes down to about the middle of her back. Every now and then I have to help her lean over the tub and rinse her hair more but for the most part she does a great job. With her curls she does not like to comb on her own unless I at least get the knots out. Her next thing is learning to put it in a ponytail. Which she is catching onto pretty fast. She wants to learn to do it all her own, so I teach her to do it all. But she knows every now and then she must humor me and let me do her hair, nails, and pick out her clothes.

 

[Prof]

We don't have any information on any results of any investigations in this case, to include DNA results.

To take a guess, I would imagine that LE had their test results before SC was asked for a voluntary separation by CPS; however, LE has clearly stated that they had been working with CPS from the start as normal protocol when a child is missing.
CPS had visited the home in December for some unknown reason.
I personally would not assume that DNA test results would have been the reason for the separation, as I would assume if the results were incriminating, there would have been an arrest instead. JMO

 

[OtherEyes]

quick question, I don't even know where to look.. was the dad blocked by authorities to see/speak etc. with the boys before or after the DNA was done?

Blood drawn on 4/24/12 PDF2 page 36
SC no contact with kids per CPS 5/12/12 http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151279815.html?action=editcomment&cid=90753676&page=1
Not sure how long lab results take but good thought on if it was due to the blood tests that LE got back?

 

[OtherEyes]

RC and SC's blood was drawn on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 @1304 & 1317 hours.

Page 36, PDF 2 (Forensics collected, items taken from home)

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/link/563528/pdf-celis-2-forensics-collected-items-taken-from-home

Hey patty looks like we both got on that the same time!:seeya:

 

[leighmarker]

Probably not much but I was watching a story on the Powel family this am and Isa came to mind, when the dad started getting very strange (ok stranger than he already was, how about paranoid) and not wanting anyone to have any contact with his boys, because he was afraid they would spill the beans...
Also, wonder if the boys know something that the dad doesn't want anyone to know, or they found out that dad isn't the dad? I dunno just pulling things out of the air.

DNA takesanswers.com

It says 5 to 10 days. for general DNA, longer for more exact info.
Strange IMO that he was blocked from the boys after the DNA was done.....what else (if anything) was an abrupt change after the DNA was preformed ..??????

 

[leighmarker]

I personally would not assume that DNA test results would have been the reason for the separation, as I would assume if the results were incriminating, there would have been an arrest instead. JMO

why would they arrest someone if
1.) they found out he isn't the father to one of the children
2.) what else would the DNA prove?

 

[Salem]

Just a reminder - No Namecalling or Name Variations.

Thanks to those that self-edited.

Salem

 

[Prof]

SC is the father..I am not sure where this question of paternity comes from, but I will take LE and the hospital birth announcements as good enough for me.

ETA my post said "if the results were incriminating" as I was replying to a suggestion that DNA test results were in some way a reason for CPS to ask SC for a voluntary separation