AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 4

[gitana1]

BBM. I was one of those people admittedly. There just seemed something off about them. However, I was 14 at the time. Now that I am older I try and take everything as it comes because there really is no way to predict these situations. I could give dozens of explanations for the things people find weird in this case, and they could all still be wrong. We just have to hope the police investigate every single possible angle.

You are right. I think culture plays a part in how we process what we see as well.
Ed Smart is a bit stiff and maybe nerdy. He came across as fake to a lot of people around the country and so it makes sense that some would suspect him, whether 14 or 40! But to some in Utah, he did not seem odd at all.

I don't understand the 'men's voices' thing. If 2 perps were stealing a child at dawn, would they be talking loud enough for the neighbors to hear them? Especially with the father and 2 brothers and 2 dogs inside the home at the time.

Maybe she only thought they were normal voices, but maybe they were arguing or giving each other instructions. Also, they could have been on something and not aware how loud they were. They knew to not talk in the house, but out of it, they felt more relaxed?

I don't know. But I have been thinking about what I saw some poster write in comments at the end of an article about this case. If you have kids at home, buy those $5.00 window and door alarms. Make sure the batteries are always good and that they function. Turn them on every night. I use them and they work!

 

[Dr. Know?]

Saturday morning at 6:30 am. Campers, boaters, trash collection (Waste Mgmt.) brush & bulky pick up? Party leftovers leaving? I hope we hear more soon.

 

[cluciano63]

OT I am glad my old ugly house came with those decorative metal bars over all of the windows...sometimes it is a pain, but at least they are there. (although good luck to me if I ever need to get out of the house in a hurry and can't use the door for some reason...)

 

[Madilu]

Dr. Know is TRULY in the Know. Hot tip to hear this young lady's witness account. If what she said is true and accurate (especially IRT timing), and if what the news crew shot on camera is accurate, the following comes to mind:

1) First and foremost that I "called it" earlier when I refuted NG's false depiction of the little garage windows as being Isa's. (Sorry Nancy, too bad, so sad...) It appears her room is as I guessed, rear, left.
2) If that is her room, then no blinds are in place (not even visible at top of window)-just white sheer looking curtain. Keep in mind that the crew shot this footage today, so... where are the blinds? And do they leave curtains up and intact like that during the crime scene investigation? Do they haul the blinds to the precinct? I don't know how these things work except for watching CSI...
3) Exterior angles show a window to the rear of the house, so it's possible she has two windows in her room. (East facing and South facing)
4) Thing that freaks me out is that with the rear exterior shots, it also appears that there is a glass door, with the same white sheer curtaining leading into her room from the patio...
5) I wonder if the boys share a room, and if their room is adjacent to Isa's, with a bathroom in between the rooms...I suspect this is the case.

It's all hard to cobble together not knowing the floor plan...

6) I do not know what to make of men's voices AND dogs "going nuts" -would the family just be immune to that barking at dawn?

7) Sunrise was at 5:47am, how could anything nefarious happen undetected and unnoticed at that point of daylight at 6:30am)

8) Sleuthers continue to seem to know what time Mom started work. Is there a factual report to back that up? ER shifts can be crazy. Hospital spokesperson said, VERY -that could mean 4am, not necessarily 7am. Seems a lot of people seem to think she started work at 7-ish. Why?

Well, thank you Dr. Know for giving us more to chew on this evening...

 

[Okay then]

Saturday morning at 6:30 am. Campers, boaters, trash collection (Waste Mgmt.) brush & bulky pick up? Party leftovers leaving? I hope we hear more soon.

What are the municipal rules on a Saturday morning? Sorry, I am a newbie here. TIA

 

[Dr. Know?]

I prefer all of you to use your own instints. It's not me who goes to jail. TG. I just hope she is found asap. Our town is in mourning & praying for her safe return. My heart is with the family & friends.

 

[dsntslp]

What are the municipal rules on a Saturday morning? Sorry, I am a newbie here. TIA

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/dsd/NPO-CouncilAmendment-Final_2.pdf

Sec, 16-31 Noise

Is this what you are looking for?

 

[pieper4]

Saturday morning at 6:30 am. Campers, boaters, trash collection (Waste Mgmt.) brush & bulky pick up? Party leftovers leaving? I hope we hear more soon.

Could be folks walking to work as well at those stores (Office Max, etc). Could be transients checking trash containers. Could be...

 

[dsntslp]

Actually, that is not the Code but appears to be the blank, unsigned version before it was adopted. Let me find the up to date Codes, brb.

ETA: http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Arizona/tucson_az/tucsonarizonacharterandgeneralordinances?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:tucson_az

IDK why it does not stay clickable so maybe C/P it, okay?

 

[Dr. Know?]

7) Sunrise was at 5:47am, how could anything nefarious happen undetected and unnoticed at that point of daylight at 6:30am)

6:30am Saturday morning? Video to boot from Moore's place. I'll wait...some do sleep in past 6:30am on Saturday mornings.

xoxo

 

[Okay then]

Actually, that is not the Code but appears to be the blank, unsigned version before it was adopted. Let me find the up to date Codes, brb.

I have no idea what happened, however, if there are no scheduled municipal appointments on a Saturday, that narrows down who was making a rukuss, (sp?) so much so the neighbor would notice... JMO

 

[twall]

This is KVOA's report on the neighbor lady hearing voices and dog barking.
Notice at around the 1 minute mark it shows a ladder lying on the ground next to the back of the house. Now I don't know if it was there Fri. night/Sat. morning and I believe the video was shot Wed. but just wanted to point it out. I previously read about the burglar saying at times he could find a ladder lying around if he needed one to gain entry to a house. Now we have a report that Isabel's br window is on the east side of the house. I believe that over NG's report of the small windows on the west side of the house which appears to be the garage.
I recently gave my hubby a tongue lashing because I saw he stashed a ladder behind the shrubs right next to our kids' br windows instead of locking it in the shed or garage. His excuse was he didn't put it away because he was going to use it again soon and of course he told me I am paranoid!

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/celis-neighbor-reports-suspicious-noises/

 

[MsFacetious]

People are saying that Mom went to work "really early" that morning.

Have they elaborated on what that means?

Really earlier than normal?

Earlier than her scheduled shift?

Or like early, as in the middle of the night before it's light outside?

It could just mean that she was scheduled to work at 11am and came in at 7:30am because someone asked her to cover part of their shift.

 

[gngr~snap]

People are saying that Mom went to work "really early" that morning.

Have they elaborated on what that means?

Really earlier than normal?

Earlier than her scheduled shift?

Or like early, as in the middle of the night before it's light outside?

It could just mean that she was scheduled to work at 11am and came in at 7:30am because someone asked her to cover part of their shift.

Was she a nurse in an office or a hospital?
An office nurse would have no reason to show up WAY early!

It was reprted she left for work at 7:30.
Does not sound like a hospital shift to me!
7A-7P or 7A - 3P (either way she would be LATE not early)
ODD!

office nurse???
mom left home at 7:30? Office hours begin at 8A or 9A on a Saturday???
so she was less than 30 min to less than an hour and 30 min early?
NOT unheard of...

~jmo~

 

[MsFacetious]

She is a pediatric nurse in a hospital, emergency room I believe.

 

[Straitfan]

Sometimes things get "alittle over analyzed" ....jmo of course...

 

[Straitfan]

Not that it really makes a difference but "my gut feeling" after seeing her parents versus my feelings after seeing SL's parents are very different..

 

[~n/t~]

I don't understand the 'men's voices' thing. If 2 perps were stealing a child at dawn, would they be talking loud enough for the neighbors to hear them? Especially with the father and 2 brothers and 2 dogs inside the home at the time.

I agree. Doesn't make sense. Not saying the woman is lying but it could have been unrelated to this case.

Is she sure it was 6:30 am when she allegedly heard these voices?

 

[~n/t~]

There are still so many unanswered questions. Perhaps I missed some of them and they have been answered but here they are:

1) Scaling back the search. I understand budget cuts and all that but they went from 150 officers to 20 or 30 in 5 days. Are budget cuts the real reason or is it because they believe Isabel is no longer in the area?

2) Tracking/scent/cadaver dogs. I'm still unclear as to where they tracked her scent and what dogs were used for what areas. Did we ever get confirmation on that? Did scent dogs lead investigators anywhere?

3) The home was released to the family but they don't want to go back at this time and my understanding is they requested police presence if they go back. Why? Did someone threaten them?

4) Have they searched any bodies of water? Backyards? It is my understanding there aren't any wooded areas and the land is flat but I would think checking neighbours back yards to see if there is disturbed soil would be a must.

I'm sure there are more but these are just a few off the top of my head for now.

Praying and hoping for a miracle. lease:

 

[BrownRice]

My thoughts on the dogs barking and the neighbor's timeline:

It makes no sense a stranger would attempt to abduct a child in the morning light. Let alone 2 strangers. And it's more likely a child would awaken in the morning versus in the middle of the night when they are dead asleep.

If it was an inside job (meaning her father/another male person), why would the dogs bark? Also, if they carried out her dead body, wouldn't the cadaver dogs have picked up something? Also, let's say something horrible happened in the middle of the night, she ends up dead and dad has to call another male to help him remove the body - LE would have seen this call already.

So I just don't give a lot of credibility to the dogs/voices for this case. IMO.