Found Deceased AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 *Arrest* #26

[Gunslinging Granny]

I have faith that there are some decent people on the Tucson PD force who want Isabel's killer to go to prison.

Isabel's remains were recovered. This ends the possibility that she is alive somewhere in Mexico or California. Because it wasn't happenstance that her remains were found, the police clearly have either an eye witnesses to the dumping of Isabel's body, testimony from someone involved or a confidant, phone pings from the dumper, surveillance video near site where she was dumped, or gps data from the dumper's car. The police have surveillance videos of the front and back of the Celis' home from multiple sources. They also have evidence from Isabel's home and window screen. When the toxicology tests are completed on Isabel's bones and hair, I believe there will be one or more arrests.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

As an Arizona native and 27-year resident of Tucson, I will say that TPD is both incompetent and crooked. Not just a department that doesn't solve cases (I personally have 2 friends whose murders have gone unsolved--one for 20 years and the other for 17), but a department that employs men who commit and cover up crimes. From stealing and selling drugs out of evidence to threatening and shaking down strip club owners to drunk driving that knocked out half the lights in the city to domestic violence and hostage-taking--and that's just what has made it into the news. That's Tucson's Finest. And other local LE isn't much better. We just had another one from Border Patrol go down for smuggling drugs.

As for parents, Noreen Gosch has spent decades attacking law enforcement and dealing with PIs who have really bat**** crazy ideas. No one uses that to claim she killed her kid or helped her husband do so.

I believe psychics are bogus. I also know that more than one LEO has used them in an official capacity, though.

When Noreen's son disappeared in 1982, there weren't national, reputable missing person organizations that she could have asked to help. In 2012 when Isabel disappeared, there were many national, reputable, search organizations for missing people and some were free.

 

[azshadowwalker]

I have never had CPS in my home and I don't know anyone who has.

who called CPS on this family? why? who was doing what? what kind of abuse was alleged?

I will have to look at the early threads for proof, but I believe there are links there indicating that both parents had been busted for DUI and endangering a child. That indicates to me that the kid(s) was in the car when they were driving under the influence. Definitely something CPS should check out, IMO. They were separate incidents, but the charges were simultaneous both times, if I am remembering correctly. I don't know if that's when/why CPS was involved, or if there were actual reports of abuse/neglect/endangerment in addition to that. That may be the reason for the "safety plan"--the parent(s) needed to address selfish, dangerous use of substances around their kids.



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[diamond12]

CPS can be called only for parents or also for relatives living in the same house?

 

[azshadowwalker]

Many people searched for Isabel. That's not a suspicious action. What is suspicious is that Sergio told 911 his daughter had been abducted (but told 911 he didn't know why he thought this) and then sent his crying 10-year-old son out to ask nearby store employees if they had seen Isabel. Imo, very few parents would send their crying ten-year-old child out to look for their six-year-old who they thought had been recently abducted. The abductor might grab their ten-year-old too.

People repeat this in every single abduction case when they want to blame the parents, and I think it's...questionable. You really think people are worried about the abductor being around at 8 am in broad daylight? I don't. And if you are trying to cover as much territory as possible as quickly as possible, you are going to use everyone available to look. If he had done all of that first on his own, then called 911, people would be demanding to know why he wasted so much time. It's like the old "why aren't they talking" vs "why are they giving so many interviews" damned-if-you-do thing that people flip between based upon whom they want to accuse.

On another note, TPD repeatedly stated that the body was in Pima County when the announcement was first made. I think the "in Tucson" tweet probably means the location was in the nearby areas that are commonly considered "Tucson", but are actually in the county. So, my guesses would be the Foothills, the far Eastside, the far Westside, or out around Catalina or Oro Valley.

Finally, as for reputable PIs, the likes of the Gosch family have had 30-odd years to get rid of the kooks and PIs. Noreen has only chosen to double down in that direction. As with the Celis family, I think it's a combination of grief, gullibility and religious-based superstition. Both families also deal with the official missing child organizations. Both families also deal with kooks with crazy ideas. Both also distrust LE (although I don't think the Celis family has ever accused any LEO of involvement in the abduction and trafficking of kids). I don't hold it against either family.

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[azshadowwalker]

Thinking about it, the other suggestion for locations would be around the Pima County Fairgrounds, which are off I-10 southeast of the city. I am just not going to put much stock into the tweet, considering the limitations of Twitter. I lean more towards the statement made by the chief of police in the press conference. It might be near the city limits, but I don't believe it is within them.

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[Knox]

As an Arizona native and 27-year resident of Tucson, I will say that TPD is both incompetent and crooked. Not just a department that doesn't solve cases (I personally have 2 friends whose murders have gone unsolved--one for 20 years and the other for 17), but a department that employs men who commit and cover up crimes. From stealing and selling drugs out of evidence to threatening and shaking down strip club owners to drunk driving that knocked out half the lights in the city to domestic violence and hostage-taking--and that's just what has made it into the news. That's Tucson's Finest. And other local LE isn't much better. We just had another one from Border Patrol go down for smuggling drugs.

As for parents, Noreen Gosch has spent decades attacking law enforcement and dealing with PIs who have really bat**** crazy ideas. No one uses that to claim she killed her kid or helped her husband do so.

I believe psychics are bogus. I also know that more than one LEO has used them in an official capacity, though.

I appreciate your POV, but not every cop in Tuscon is dirty. It's the few bad apples syndrome ...

ITA with you, psychics & LE should never be partners in any capacity.

 

[liz b.]

I will have to look at the early threads for proof, but I believe there are links there indicating that both parents had been busted for DUI and endangering a child. That indicates to me that the kid(s) was in the car when they were driving under the influence. Definitely something CPS should check out, IMO. They were separate incidents, but the charges were simultaneous both times, if I am remembering correctly. I don't know if that's when/why CPS was involved, or if there were actual reports of abuse/neglect/endangerment in addition to that. That may be the reason for the "safety plan"--the parent(s) needed to address selfish, dangerous use of substances around their kids.



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Yes, I agree, a safety plan would have been developed by CPS. I will say, though, that I have never come across a safety plan that would have advocated for a 6 year old girl to share a bedroom with her 14 and 10 year old brothers. I read that she supposedly did this "for protection "..,. I am moved to ask : what on earth was going on ?

 

[StrayKat]

Thank you, is the profile available to read?

 

[Knox]

Thank you, is the profile available to read?

What profile are speaking of?

 

[StrayKat]

The Tucson PD wasn't the only law enforcement agency involved in investigating Isabel's disappearance. The FBI and its BAU also investigated and provided their expert analysis and a profile of the "abductor".

Thank you Knox, is any of the above expert analysis and the profile of the abductor available to read?

Sorry, I had not originally replied with the quote.

Thank you again

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Thank you Knox, is any of the above expert analysis and the profile of the abductor available to read?

Sorry, I had not originally replied with the quote.

Thank you again

The only government documents released to the public for this crime were from the Tucson PD.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I agree, a safety plan would have been developed by CPS. I will say, though, that I have never come across a safety plan that would have advocated for a 6 year old girl to share a bedroom with her 14 and 10 year old brothers. I read that she supposedly did this "for protection "..,. I am moved to ask : what on earth was going on ?

I am not sure why she went into their room to sleep. But when my daughter was about 7 or so, she used to get up at night and go sleep on her big brother's big 'couch chair' because she 'was scared.' She watched a scary movie at a friends house one time, and from then on, for months, would go sleep on that couch chair. fftobed:

 

[liz b.]

I am not sure why she went into their room to sleep. But when my daughter was about 7 or so, she used to get up at night and go sleep on her big brother's big 'couch chair' because she 'was scared.' She watched a scary movie at a friends house one time, and from then on, for months, would go sleep on that couch chair. fftobed:

Right. but Katydid, was CPS involved with your family ? Because they would not have approved of these sleeping arrangements.

 

[mom2chloe]

Maybe CPS was called by someone who learned that Isa was sharing a room with her brothers? Would the fact that an uncle was living in the house require the uncle to sleep in Isa's room and her to sleep elsewhere? Maybe Sergio even had a habit of sleeping in the den/ living room since the uncle had moved out or possibly even before due to suspicion?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

There is a Celis in the Pima County jail that is being held without bond. I don't know why or if this is Isabel's relative.
https://www.sheriff.pima.gov/inmate/

 

[Knox]

Maybe CPS was called by someone who learned that Isa was sharing a room with her brothers? Would the fact that an uncle was living in the house require the uncle to sleep in Isa's room and her to sleep elsewhere? Maybe Sergio even had a habit of sleeping in the den/ living room since the uncle had moved out or possibly even before due to suspicion?

Many times during an investigation LE requests CPS to come in. It would not suprise me if that were the case here. There was something questionable in the home which required their attention.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Maybe CPS was called by someone who learned that Isa was sharing a room with her brothers? Would the fact that an uncle was living in the house require the uncle to sleep in Isa's room and her to sleep elsewhere? Maybe Sergio even had a habit of sleeping in the den/ living room since the uncle had moved out or possibly even before due to suspicion?

The uncle was rooming in the Celis' 4th bedroom also called their den.

Sergio and Rebecca told news agencies and the police that the night Isabel disappeared was Sergio's first night to fall asleep on the couch (or something similar to that).

Imo, the reason CPS (on their 2nd investigation into the Celis' home) told Sergio to have no contact with his two sons after Isabel's disappearance was related to CPS's first investigation into the Celis' home.

 

[Knox]

There is a Celis in the Pima County jail that is being held without bond. I don't know why or if this is Isabel's relative.
https://www.sheriff.pima.gov/inmate/

Both of them have extensive criminal histories. You can search at the link below, not related to this case IMO.
https://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/caselookup.aspx

 

[rashomon]

Did the surveillance camera's field of view also include the Celises' garage door?