Found Deceased AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 *Arrest* #26

[Gunslinging Granny]

Golf Links and Swan isn't a rural part of Pima County, though. Didn't they say she was found in a very rural area?

It was "remote area". It's unknown what that means, but the police spokesman posted on twitter that Isabel's remains were found in Tucson.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I agree that it wasn't an accident. What parent is going to bury their child in the desert to cover up an accident? No matter how bad the child is injured, a parent would call 911 and hope against hope the child can be saved/revived. I don't think the person who killed Isa intended for her to die, but he recognized that what he did was criminal. MOO

IMO, if someone in the household is involved, it's not another child. But, I think LE were hoping one of the children had seen or heard something in their room that night. Someone besides the person who assaulted Isa must have known something about what happened, though, since someone was able to direct LE to the approximate location of Isa's body. MOO :moo:

What about an overdose on opioids or sedatives? A self-serving parent afraid of arrest or loss of their professional license wouldn't call an ambulance. It's possible that this parent didn't recognize respiratory depression caused by an overdose, so he or she didn't know they should call an ambulance. It's possible that this parent slept outside the child's room believing he or she would recognize respiratory depression if it occurred, but he or she didn't recognize it or slept through Isabel's decreasing respirations.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I agree that it wasn't an accident. What parent is going to bury their child in the desert to cover up an accident? No matter how bad the child is injured, a parent would call 911 and hope against hope the child can be saved/revived. I don't think the person who killed Isa intended for her to die, but he recognized that what he did was criminal. MOO

IMO, if someone in the household is involved, it's not another child. But, I think LE were hoping one of the children had seen or heard something in their room that night. Someone besides the person who assaulted Isa must have known something about what happened, though, since someone was able to direct LE to the approximate location of Isa's body. MOO :moo:

There is no evidence that anyone directed LE to Isabel's body.

The latest article only stated an unknown male was interviewed. This male might be the owner of the property where LE found Isabel's body and that's why he was interviewed by LE. This unknown male may rent buildings located near where LE found Isabel's body and that's why he was interviewed.

 

[Boodles]

What about an overdose on opioids or sedatives? A self-serving parent afraid of arrest or loss of their professional license wouldn't call an ambulance. It's possible that this parent didn't recognize respiratory depression caused by an overdose, so he or she didn't know they should call an ambulance. It's possible that this parent slept outside the child's room believing he or she would recognize respiratory depression if it occurred, but he or she didn't recognize it or slept through Isabel's decreasing respirations.

But what possible reason would they have for drugging Isa? I'm not connecting the dots with this scenario.

And I read in another post speculation about an argument over the video controller. Did I miss news about a video controller being involved? How did this item come into discussion?

 

[Indy Anna]

What about an overdose on opioids or sedatives? A self-serving parent afraid of arrest or loss of their professional license wouldn't call an ambulance. It's possible that this parent didn't recognize respiratory depression caused by an overdose, so he or she didn't know they should call an ambulance. It's possible that this parent slept outside the child's room believing he or she would recognize respiratory depression if it occurred, but he or she didn't recognize it or slept through Isabel's decreasing respirations.

A drug OD wouldn't explain the blood evidence. IMO, someone may have slept next to Isa's room only after Isa was deceased/removed from the home to ensure no one looked in the room for a few hours. MOO

 

[Indy Anna]

But what possible reason would they have for drugging Isa? I'm not connecting the dots with this scenario.

And I read in another post speculation about an argument over the video controller. Did I miss news about a video controller being involved? How did this item come into discussion?

I asked about the video game in a post upthread because IIRC, there was something in an earlier thread about blood being found near a video game, or maybe it was on a video controller, in the boys' room. I thought the family's explanation was that Isa had a nose bleed at an earlier time. Someone else mentioned the video controller, so I think more than one of us remember something about that, but I tried Googling it and couldn't find that reference in any articles. Maybe it was in a news video that didn't accompany an article? IDK. So, right now it's just rumor/speculation.

ETA: The locations of blood found in the home are listed in the police reports. Report 1 notes blood found on a seat. I can't open the links to the reports, but they are here:

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/35044194/major-development-in-isabel-celis-case

 

[Indy Anna]

There is no evidence that anyone directed LE to Isabel's body.

The latest article only stated an unknown male was interviewed. This male might be the owner of the property where LE found Isabel's body and that's why he was interviewed by LE. This unknown male may rent buildings located near where LE found Isabel's body and that's why he was interviewed.

I'm assuming that someone may have given them a clue as to where to find Isa's body--thus, the comment that it wasn't by happenstance. If the killer provided that information, wouldn't he have been arrested by now? JMO

http://tucson.com/news/local/crime/...cle_49b376f4-1657-11e7-800c-6fd5c7088d1f.html

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

A drug OD wouldn't explain the blood evidence. IMO, someone may have slept next to Isa's room only after Isa was deceased/removed from the home to ensure no one looked in the room for a few hours. MOO

All we know is that there was blood found in the home. The quantity of blood found in the Celis' home wasn't quantified. It may have been a minuscule or blood that wasn't Isabel's.

From my grandchildren's many boo boos, bloody noses, and unfortunate predilection for non-urgent hand washing, a sizable percentage of my house would likely light up if a forensic team sprayed it with luminal. The Celis' home may be similar.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I'm assuming that someone may have given them a clue as to where to find Isa's body--thus, the comment that it wasn't by happenstance. If the killer provided that information, wouldn't he have been arrested by now? JMO

http://tucson.com/news/local/crime/...cle_49b376f4-1657-11e7-800c-6fd5c7088d1f.html

Because LE has been digging in specific areas in Tucson looking for Isabel for many years (see the articles I posted two weeks ago for sources), I assumed "wasn't happenstance" meant that LE had finally found her during one of their searches. If someone had led LE to Isabel's remains, I believe there would have been an arrest. Because there wasn't an arrest, I believe LE finally found her during one of their searches.

 

[Indy Anna]

Because LE has been digging in specific areas in Tucson looking for Isabel for many years (see the articles I posted two weeks ago for sources), I assumed "wasn't happenstance" meant that LE had finally found her during one of their searches. If someone had led LE to Isabel's remains, I believe there would have been an arrest. Because there wasn't an arrest, I believe LE finally found her during one of their searches.

BBM
Do you know why they concentrated on those specific areas? I know it took LE 5 years to find Isa, but Tucson is a large area to cover. They had been searching certain areas and didn't find her by happenstance. Just wondering what helped them narrow down where to search.

ETA: I do understand that "not happenstance" could mean that the remains weren't found randomly by a hiker, e.g., as opposed to being found during a planned search. But, the digging was in specific areas.

 

[Indy Anna]

What about an overdose on opioids or sedatives? A self-serving parent afraid of arrest or loss of their professional license wouldn't call an ambulance. It's possible that this parent didn't recognize respiratory depression caused by an overdose, so he or she didn't know they should call an ambulance. It's possible that this parent slept outside the child's room believing he or she would recognize respiratory depression if it occurred, but he or she didn't recognize it or slept through Isabel's decreasing respirations.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. After Isa died, the parent didn't want to report an OD to 911 for fear of legal/professional repercussions, but was prepared to dial 911 if he heard Isa in respiratory distress from an OD during the night? As in, gave her a sedative knowing it was possible she'd go into respiratory distress, or Isa accidentally ingested drugs and the parent didn't want to take her to ER unless absolutely necessary (i.e., already in respiratory distress) for fear of legal/professional repercussions? TIA.

 

[minazoe]

even a find during a planned search would be happenstance if there where no particular reasons to search that particular area..so they had some reason to search there... they had a tip, or they had an educated hunch based on something or other... data? phone pings? chatter from a prison cell? a gps device placed on someones car and possible trips were made to the area for no practical reason.....

Im feeling the gps thing.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

BBM
Do you know why they concentrated on those specific areas? I know it took LE 5 years to find Isa, but Tucson is a large area to cover. They had been searching certain areas and didn't find her by happenstance. Just wondering what helped them narrow down where to search.

ETA: I do understand that "not happenstance" could mean that the remains weren't found randomly by a hiker, e.g., as opposed to being found during a planned search. But, the digging was in specific areas.

Google a map of the Celis' home. You can see that they live near a very busy road, strip malls, and a larger mall. There are many surveillance cameras in such shopping areas. We know from articles that LE reviewed surveillance videos from the early morning hours when Isabel disappeared. (There were two that were pointed at the Celis' home.) From other crime cases, we can assume detectives used multiple surveillance videos and traffic cams to follow the car or cars that left the Celis' home the morning she disappeared. Detectives may have been able to follow the car or cars that left the Celis home for many miles because of where the Celis' lived (among numerous businesses). Knowing that her body had to be hidden, detectives chose remote areas along the path which the suspected car traveled.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

even a find during a planned search would be happenstance if there where no particular reasons to search that particular area..so they had some reason to search there... they had a tip, or they had an educated hunch based on something or other... data? phone pings? chatter from a prison cell? a gps device placed on someones car and possible trips were made to the area for no practical reason.....

Im feeling the gps thing.

Detectives certainly used tips and surveillance and traffic videos to determine where they would search for Isabel's body.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

The surveillance video from the home security store pointed across an empty parking lot to Isabel's window. No one was captured on the surveillance video outside Isabel's window. Isabel was not seen being carried through her window. We have been told that Becky's car left the home early that morning.

 

[AZYaYa]

If Sergio did something then by now Becky knows and is protecting him. If Becky had him give her something, then vice versa he is protecting her.

If SC gave her something, I doubt it was simply just so she could go to sleep. It was already late for a six-year-old to be up, and it was also late for the two boys to be up and watching a movie. I don't get the sense the family cared too much about bedtimes or when their kids fell asleep.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

If SC gave her something, I doubt it was simply just so she could go to sleep. It was already late for a six-year-old to be up, and it was also late for the two boys to be up and watching a movie. I don't get the sense the family cared too much about bedtimes or when their kids fell asleep.

Isabel had an early ballgame the following morning.

 

[Indy Anna]

Google a map of the Celis' home. You can see that they live near a very busy road, strip malls, and a larger mall. There are many surveillance cameras in such shopping areas. We know from articles that LE reviewed surveillance videos from the early morning hours when Isabel disappeared. (There were two that were pointed at the Celis' home.) From other crime cases, we can assume detectives used multiple surveillance videos and traffic cams to follow the car or cars that left the Celis' home the morning she disappeared. Detectives may have been able to follow the car or cars that left the Celis home for many miles because of where the Celis' lived (among numerous businesses). Knowing that her body had to be hidden, detectives chose remote areas along the path which the suspected car traveled.

I've seen the posts and maps related to the surveillance cams across from the Celis home, but reports have given the location of her remains as 'remote' and 'desert' so I was picturing it as a number of miles away. The cams would give LE information about the direction a car went, and they may be able to find footage on other cams in the area that would enable them to follow a particular car for a distance, but depending on how far the car went they would likely have lost the trail and many cams record over after a certain length of time. It's possible that LE were able to track the car far enough to narrow down the possibilities, and then came the hardest part--digging to zero in on Isa's remains.

 

[Indy Anna]

Isabel had an early ballgame the following morning.

I'm thinking--and JMO--that's what an argument erupted over. IC didn't want to go to bed and someone got physical with her.

And thinking, too, that SC never slept on the couch outside IC's room that night. IMO, it was an excuse he gave RC to explain why he wasn't in bed most of the night (IF he wasn't home during that time). Then, he couldn't backtrack and tell LE something different. All just MOO.

 

[Micheline]

I recall when Isabel missing was on the news, and her father was on tv telling Isabel how they loved her and missed her.
The way he said it was so awkward, so uncomfortable, ever since I have felt Sergio is different than other people. He is so overly emotional in a way that I havent seen before, for example also when his wife talked and he looked at her while feeling her every emotion, so very intense so uncommon.

But Sergio is a theatrical men, he is a singer and actor, he has to put all his emotions into his work, and I think it is part of his IRL aswell, he cannot help being the way he is.

I do not think he harmed Isabel, same for Becca, she never ever would harm her child or punish her while doing her hair or over a remote or not wanting to sleep, I cannot see that happening.

Sergio may be a strange bird, but I think his love for his wife and children is inmense.

That leaves something occuring due to not watching out, something in the house, something between her and her brothers or a third party, anything is possible. I do not think her parents are suspects nor that they will be arrested.

I also do not think there will be answers, and I think the find was a happenstance even if that is being denied.