Found Deceased AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 *Arrest* #26

[MummyRatcliffe]

Wow! I've not read this -- can you please share link to article.

Hi, sorry I've been looking for a link for you but I read it yesterday and can't find the link to share. Also, because I'm from the UK some US news articles are restricted for me... but it was definitely a news article I read it in and not a blog, FB etc

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What confuses me is the fact that Isa didn’t scream when she was abducted.

I think she was so fearful. This beautiful little child had lived a life of happiness and love.

She had no idea that evil like CC even existed.

We could ask the very same question when other young children were also abducted from inside of their own home by a sexual predator with family members inside.

Those precious children never screamed either. Some had dogs inside and Jessica Lunsford had her dog in the bed with her. None of the inside dogs barked or attacked in any of these cases.

Iirc they found some blood in her bedroom so he could have quickly duct taped her mouth as she lay sleeping before she woke up and then whispered to her if she didn't do what he said he would kill her and her family.

I really don't want to know what any of them went through once they faced each of their predatory monsters they saw for the first time that had invaded their safe place.

Jmo

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

I find that part of the abduction - with dogs and Dad sleeping on the couch especially disturbing. While 6 year old children are very sound sleepers, I do believe she had to be gagged to get her out of the window and to an awaiting vehicle. I always thought finding her killer would provide some relief but I'm yet to feel better. Every article hurts...

Also, sometimes, fear can make us literally unable to scream even when we want to, so I'm guessing either she was gagged, threatened to keep quiet, or so afraid she couldn't have screamed if she wanted to. It makes my blood go cold to contemplate what that poor beautiful girl might have gone through

 

[minazoe]

I really thought this was such a suspicious case, it seemed so unlikely that someone went through that window ..never underestimate a psychopath. MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Also, sometimes, fear can make us literally unable to scream even when we want to, so I'm guessing either she was gagged, threatened to keep quiet, or so afraid she couldn't have screamed if she wanted to. It makes my blood go cold to contemplate what that poor beautiful girl might have gone through

Mummy I want you to know that I know I owe you an apology. It has greatly bothered me since my first post reply to you.

Although I am sure you will find it hard to believe but I am really very easygoing and try my best to show kindness and respect to everyone and that includes everyone who may disagree with me. I totally failed when it came to you and for that I am truly sorry.

You mentioned you are in the minority and I certainly know firsthand how stressful that unpopular position can be.

I was in the very small minority when it came to Isabel's case. There were only a tiny few who supported Becky and Sergio's innocence throughout.

At times I felt I was wading a deep river where I would surely drown. LOL! Its hard to have a minority opinion when so many are 100 percent convinced someone is totally wrong.

But like in all cases I stay true to my own beliefs. Anyone who has posted with me over the years knows this isn't the only case by far where my beliefs were in the minority about who the suspect was thought to be or not be before the case was solved.

Never have I had to regret those minority held beliefs nor the steadfast support I gave them all.

So I certainly should and do respect your opinion about this case and any other case you may follow.

In the end hopefully all cases will be solved leaving all of us with facts instead of only opinions.

I am looking forward to posting with you on this case and others.

Again I apologize for my bad manners.

Ocean

 

[Mysteries1974]

Where did he take her after he kidnapped her? Or did he kill her immediately?

 

[agilbe]

While it pains me to write this, perhaps Isabel didn't scream because she couldn't. What I mean is I think by that time CC had become quite practiced. Yes, I know the Celis family had a dog. But he/she was very old. Makes me thankful for mine that bark if someone even thinks about walking down the street.
Supposedly 4 bodies in Avra Valley and who knows how many others spread across the US. I really think there are many more out there. What an evil man. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Where did he take her after he kidnapped her? Or did he kill her immediately?

I don't think we will ever know all of those answers.

 

[mom2chloe]

I guess the big question is what are we going to do as Americans, or more importantly the Human Race, to make sure this never happens to another innocent child again? This creep should have been locked up and the key thrown away a long time ago. I agree with others who believe these two murders are only the tip of the iceberg. This guy is the poster child for why child sex crimes/murders should be federal offenses and dealt with swiftly and severely. Bless these families and all the future disclosures regarding others.

 

[katydid23]

I guess the big question is what are we going to do as Americans, or more importantly the Human Race, to make sure this never happens to another innocent child again? This creep should have been locked up and the key thrown away a long time ago. I agree with others who believe these two murders are only the tip of the iceberg. This guy is the poster child for why child sex crimes/murders should be federal offenses and dealt with swiftly and severely. Bless these families and all the future disclosures regarding others.

Right now, in states like california, it is going the opposite way. Not only aren't they locking them up and throwing away the key, they are making sentences shorter, giving them more time off for 'good behavior' and allowing more and more defendants to make horrid plea deals that allow them to walk free.

 

[katydid23]

Here is one of the WORST new California Laws: [and it is retroactive]

Today, CA governor Jerry Brown signed SB1437, which cuts back the circumstances under which suspects can be charged with felony. Aimed at eliminating unfairness in the "law of parts", it will take effect 1 January 2019.

As the law stands now, if A supplies a gun for a holdup, B drives the car to the robbery, and C shoots and kills a clerk, all are guilty of felony murder. The new law changes the charging provisions for accomplices.

Hundreds serving time for murder could get sprung under new California law

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I hate to speculate without facts but I think once he had kidnapped Isabel he took her back to where he was living at the time to repeatedly rape her which was 2 miles away.

Do they have the vehicle he was driving back then?

I remember when 5 year old Samantha Runion...was kidnapped by her pedophile murderer the police were able to find her DNA inside of his car.

It was heartbreaking because the DNA of SR found in his car had come from her own tears.

I do believe that both may have been transported in his vehicle and were raped elsewhere.

Even years later in some cases the experts were able to find evidence even if the suspect had tried to clean them up. They have also been able to find years old evidence inside the offenders vehicles.

What I dont even want to think about is the possibility of other pedophiles living in the same apartment and ravaging both of these young children before CC killed them.

I think he transported them to the desert and murdered each of them there where no one was around.

Imo though

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I really thought this was such a suspicious case, it seemed so unlikely that someone went through that window ..never underestimate a psychopath. MOO

Tragically there has been way too many children kidnapped from inside the safe space of their own bedroom and kidnapped by their own stranger pedophile psychopath to be raped and murdered.

Most came in through windows...others came in through a sliding door or were able to gain access other ways.

Then we have seen cases where predators kidnapped the young children in broad daylight right off a well traveled busy street. In the vast majority of those cases no one saw or heard anything.

It shows consistently just how bold pedophiles truly are and how they are high risk takers. I think that is part of their sick thrill.

Jmo

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

Mummy I want you to know that I know I owe you an apology. It has greatly bothered me since my first post reply to you.

Although I am sure you will find it hard to believe but I am really very easygoing and try my best to show kindness and respect to everyone and that includes everyone who may disagree with me. I totally failed when it came to you and for that I am truly sorry.

You mentioned you are in the minority and I certainly know firsthand how stressful that unpopular position can be.

I was in the very small minority when it came to Isabel's case. There were only a tiny few who supported Becky and Sergio's innocence throughout.

At times I felt I was wading a deep river where I would surely drown. LOL! Its hard to have a minority opinion when so many are 100 percent convinced someone is totally wrong.

But like in all cases I stay true to my own beliefs. Anyone who has posted with me over the years knows this isn't the only case by far where my beliefs were in the minority about who the suspect was thought to be or not be before the case was solved.

Never have I had to regret those minority held beliefs nor the steadfast support I gave them all.

So I certainly should and do respect your opinion about this case and any other case you may follow.

In the end hopefully all cases will be solved leaving all of us with facts instead of only opinions.

I am looking forward to posting with you on this case and others.

Again I apologize for my bad manners.

Ocean

Hi Ocean,

Thank you so much for your message, I really appreciate the gesture and there are no hard feelings at all. I think because it was my first ever post and being brand new to getting involved in forum discussions, rather that just reading from the sidelines, I did feel a little bit like I was being attacked.

In hindsight I probably shouldn't have jumped in at the deep and and been so forthright with my opinion. I owe you an apology too, as I became snarky when I felt backed into a corner and shouldnt have acted that way either.

We live and learn, and of course we are all going to have different opinions, that's what makes WS such a great site to read, it'd be boring if we all parroted the same thing wouldn't it...

my opinion still isn't completely changed re SC, but I did take on board your advice about accusing somebody who could be an innocent victim, who's had more than their fair share of tragedy without me adding to it. I thank you for that. And so far there is no evidence to suggest SC had any involvement and it was wrong of me to accuse him based on "a feeling" or a few dodgy things I believe he's said/done. I don't think I'll be completely convinced until we know the whole facts of this case.

I too am looking forward to discussing cases with you in the future, and again thank you for the apology, it takes a genuinely good person to go out of their way to do that and I am grateful for it xx

 

[lorelei2017]

@oceanblueeyes @MummyRatcliffe

You both are such awesome people! This is the standard all us WSers should strive for! Thank you both for being such an inspiration

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

I hate to speculate without facts but I think once he had kidnapped Isabel he took her back to where he was living at the time to repeatedly rape her which was 2 miles away.

Do they have the vehicle he was driving back then?

I remember when 5 year old Samantha Runion...was kidnapped by her pedophile murderer the police were able to find her DNA inside of his car.

It was heartbreaking because the DNA of SR found in his car had come from her own tears.

I do believe that both may have been transported in his vehicle and were raped elsewhere.

Even years later in some cases the experts were able to find evidence even if the suspect had tried to clean them up. They have also been able to find years old evidence inside the offenders vehicles.

What I dont even want to think about is the possibility of other pedophiles living in the same apartment and ravaging both of these young children before CC killed them.

I think he transported them to the desert and murdered each of them there where no one was around.

Imo though

Hi Ocean,

I read that when CC said he'd take LE to Isabel's remains, he did so on the condition that the 2 burglary charges were dropped and his car was returned to him which had been impounded since 2012!!! LE released the car to his Fiancée as agreed. When a former cellmate of CC's was interviewed he told LE that CC had told him Isabel was dead and he knew where she was buried. According to this inmate CC had told him that he was worried he had damning evidence in the trunk (or boot, as we say in U.K.) of his car.

So it sounds as if he outsmarted LE by getting that car back into his Fiancées posession before leading them to Isabel's remains. No doubt it has now disappeared along with any evidence it contained.

I will try to link the article I read or at least copy and paste it, tricia tried to help me add a link but I'm still not too sure how to lol

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

I hate to speculate without facts but I think once he had kidnapped Isabel he took her back to where he was living at the time to repeatedly rape her which was 2 miles away.

Do they have the vehicle he was driving back then?

I remember when 5 year old Samantha Runion...was kidnapped by her pedophile murderer the police were able to find her DNA inside of his car.

It was heartbreaking because the DNA of SR found in his car had come from her own tears.

I do believe that both may have been transported in his vehicle and were raped elsewhere.

Even years later in some cases the experts were able to find evidence even if the suspect had tried to clean them up. They have also been able to find years old evidence inside the offenders vehicles.

What I dont even want to think about is the possibility of other pedophiles living in the same apartment and ravaging both of these young children before CC killed them.

I think he transported them to the desert and murdered each of them there where no one was around.

Imo though

Documents reveal chilling details into Isabel Celis, Maribel Gonzales investigation

I hope I pasted the link correctly but this shows everything we know up to now, the info re. CC's vehicle is quite far down the article.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

Documents reveal chilling details into Isabel Celis, Maribel Gonzales investigation

I hope I pasted the link correctly but this shows everything we know up to now, the info re. CC's vehicle is quite far down the article.

Murder suspect pleads not guilty in deaths of 2 Tucson girls

This link confirms the car had been impounded since 2012, read until the end

 

[cvaldez1975]

I hate to speculate without facts but I think once he had kidnapped Isabel he took her back to where he was living at the time to repeatedly rape her which was 2 miles away.

Do they have the vehicle he was driving back then?

I remember when 5 year old Samantha Runion...was kidnapped by her pedophile murderer the police were able to find her DNA inside of his car.

It was heartbreaking because the DNA of SR found in his car had come from her own tears.

I do believe that both may have been transported in his vehicle and were raped elsewhere.

Even years later in some cases the experts were able to find evidence even if the suspect had tried to clean them up. They have also been able to find years old evidence inside the offenders vehicles.

What I dont even want to think about is the possibility of other pedophiles living in the same apartment and ravaging both of these young children before CC killed them.

I think he transported them to the desert and murdered each of them there where no one was around.

Imo though

I believe that he placed her in the trunk. this is due to him telling someone else that hairs never go away. from there im unsure. maybe out to where she was found?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Documents reveal chilling details into Isabel Celis, Maribel Gonzales investigation

I hope I pasted the link correctly but this shows everything we know up to now, the info re. CC's vehicle is quite far down the article.

22 charges filed against him. There may be more. I think they fully believe Isabel and Maribel aren't his only victims and I agree.

They can probably find the car again and impounded it on these new charges. Its hard to remove all evidence. They have found evidence years old even when suspect had tried to clean.

Omg it made me sick reading he was accused of sexual assault at 11 years old.

I have said from day one we are looking at another Joe Duncan..one of the worst pedophile murderers in recent history. A sexual sadist and I think CC is just like him. Gender didn't matter to JD. He was raping little 5 year old boys at age 8. He went onto rape and murder both boys and girls. He also moved from state to state.

These poor children. It shows these creeps don't look like monsters even though they are.