Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #2

[news.talk]

I am arguing mainly on this point: the (IMO) seemingly relentless attacks on TG. I suspect TG is not sitting home, on-line and monitoring this particular WS forum for helpful tidbits on how she might improve her life (if she is then she is beyond help). ;-)

I know many are venting high level anger at the woman ... she is being accused of exposing her child to a person who murdered her child. I believe that is a ridiculous position. TG is no more responsible for JJR's *actions* than I am for my cats midnight excursions of running through hallways and screaming as loudly as a jet engine whines at 110% blow.

Yes. I agree. TG should NOT have exposed her children to a druggie environment. Period. But that fact she did so is NOT the reason her child was murdered. The murderer could just as easily have been a well-liked, star neighbor. The fact that it was one of the druggies living in her home (regardless of the criminal record, which does not include charges of child murder) does not make her directly culpable for that druggie's actions (UNLESS facts reveal a situation between them that was a direct cause of JJR murdering her child, with her knowledge that that was to occur). Yes, if TG was aware of the specifics of JJR's legal issues (assault, PO requested by minors) then she deserves to be convicted.
<modsnip>

Part of "the global intent of sleuthing and mapping out the crime" is to help determine what events led up to this child being murdered. It is finding out who is responsible, whether it be at the hands of one deranged psychopath or a series of incredibly poor choices. In this case, our sleuthing is uncovering the very real possibility that both are to be blamed.

I personally feel that it is this process of discovery and weighing the facts against ALL opinions, including those that view the case differently, is what raises awareness to the global community as a whole. Without dissenting opinions, we would not have to work as hard presenting the facts of the case, and crucial information could be overlooked. JMO.

 

[3blue1pink]

There are thousands of kids in every state that live in similar circumstances as Bella did. And I think we can all agree that a very small % will be murdered. The point is these kids have to grow up surrounded by disfunctional adults, who come in and out of their lives, not making them top priority. The fact that her mother was shocked and never believed he would harm her, or to say they were like family is truly what she believed. Just like she believes she did nothing wrong here. The truth is no one put her to bed at night, in passing out the door mom says get your to bed. No one was shopping for school lunches, mom knew the school has a program to feed low income kids .. And that was good enough . There is no routine normalcy or even a thought for the school year schedule , holidays or any planned family events whatsoever. I'm not saying for sure in this particular family but in thousands just like it getting the next fix comes first before anything. So between court dates or weeks in jail maybe forced treatment for 30 days, probation officers , case workers, trying to just get the kid to school most days is being a loving mother. There is no engaging in the child's life per say. These kids likely watch a lot of TV, overhear most adult conversations , they know stuff they shouldn't. They see guns and dope and sex and violence. Usually no one is working so there is always lots of people, namely men hanging around. The house is full of clutter. Dangerous tools broken electronics garbage. I know in my experience I knew kids that had their piggy banks stolen or any nice toy they have, it gets stolen eventually. It's not fair. Our system in place to protect kids is over run.. Cannot handle the amount of cases it sees. The caretakers at Bella's will be made an example I hope because the primary thing on her mind was not the safety of her kids and she did nothing about it. There is no certainty or guarantee that kids of criminal drug addicts will be victimized. But the chance for them to become thriving adults in the next generation is very slight. WS gives me a renewed faith in humanity that people care and are seeking answers to things that really we could ignore for the most part. We don't need to know these children to get emotional about them and seek justice for them. Just my opinion of course. Sorry for errors I'm on an iPhone typing with my finger.

Fab post !!!! Thank you !

 

[newone]

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...cle_2b908420-3660-11e4-a821-0019bb2963f4.html

hang onto your hats as you read this one

JR didn't have a phone

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

Dear ChuckMaureen,

Please know the last thing we ever want on Websleuths are hate-filled diatribes against parents of a murdered child. If you ever see something you feel is hateful in nature on Websleuths please
click the triangle in the lower left-hand corner of the post in question. This will alert the moderators and they can look it over and decide if it does indeed violate our Terms of Service

The problem is in some cases the parents bad choices may have played a part in the death of their child. People want to discuss the circumstances surrounding the case which could include the parents.

However, that in no way means Websleuths will allow anything that is hateful, sarcastic, flippant, or allow a discussion of a topic concerning the parent's personal life that does not in any way
shape or form connected to the death of their child.
I have seen Isabella's mother on TV and it breaks my heart.

We don't know everything yet. Please keep that fact in mind when you post.

Finally, many times during the day our hard working moderators have to make judgement calls. There are always a ton of grey areas. Rarely is anything black and white anymore. Please be respectful of their decisions.

Thank you,
Tricia

Tricia,

The bold comment ... that's where I'm coming from. We do not yet know. I hope that was directed to not only me ... ;-)

 

[3blue1pink]

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...cle_2b908420-3660-11e4-a821-0019bb2963f4.html

hang onto your hats as you read this one

JR didn't have a phone

Idk if I can say this .... If not mods please remove

I saw a Screenshot of text messages between JJR and some other FB user . so he had to have had a phone

 

[tier]

I am arguing mainly on this point: the (IMO) seemingly relentless attacks on TG. I suspect TG is not sitting home, on-line and monitoring this particular WS forum for helpful tidbits on how she might improve her life (if she is then she is beyond help). ;-)

I know many are venting high level anger at the woman ... she is being accused of exposing her child to a person who murdered her child. I believe that is a ridiculous position. TG is no more responsible for JJR's *actions* than I am for my cats midnight excursions of running through hallways and screaming as loudly as a jet engine whines at 110% blow.

Yes. I agree. TG should NOT have exposed her children to a druggie environment. Period. But that fact she did so is NOT the reason her child was murdered. The murderer could just as easily have been a well-liked, star neighbor. The fact that it was one of the druggies living in her home (regardless of the criminal record, which does not include charges of child murder) does not make her directly culpable for that druggie's actions (UNLESS facts reveal a situation between them that was a direct cause of JJR murdering her child, with her knowledge that that was to occur). Yes, if TG was aware of the specifics of JJR's legal issues (assault, PO requested by minors) then she deserves to be convicted.

<modsnip>

Part of what we do here is talk through the facts as we know them, the 'facts' MSM gives us, the info the parents give us and those from LE. When conflicting info is given (especially if from the same source) we are going to wonder why and how that fits with the situation. And while doing this and hearing facts to do with the murder of anyone (let alone a child) and their immediate prior environment is sometimes going to bring up feelings that might be shared. Anger is appropriate, in my opinion when dealing with murder cases, child abuse or neglect. We are human.

Why call us vigilantes for being upset or angry over this mothers actions and the lifestyle she forced on her children? Would it really be better for you if we all said nothing about anyone in any of the cases except for the murderers? All other facts are to be ignored? Why do LE give us any background if we are to never mention or think about them? Even when we speculate here we use the facts and any contradictions in them as a basis. And I haven't seen anyone say the parent should be put in prison for their speculations but rather for those things we already know to be fact. So we are angry over facts and also speculating on those facts. Two separate things.

And you type:

"So, to make people happy: she's a total piece of excrement and deserves to be incarcerated and beaten daily about the face and knees."

But the no one is asking you to make us happy and agree to anything you don't believe. You, though, seem to be asking us to make you happy by shutting up. Also I don't believe anyone has said they thought TG should be abused or have any violence dealt to her. Why even say something like that? That is bringing a disagreement into a whole different ballpark by equating our reasonable anger over injustice to us being violent vigilantes. I don't think that is fair.

 

[bessie]

&#8216;I&#8217;m a great mother&#8217;: Mom of murdered girl, friends say she&#8217;s been unfairly maligned
Posted: Sunday, September 7, 2014 12:25 am | Updated: 12:38 am, Sun Sep 7, 2014.
By JULIE FAIRMAN News West

BULLHEAD CITY &#8212; Tania Grogan drove to Kingman on Saturday to ask Justin Rector a question.

&#8220;I wanted to ask him why he did it, what did Bella do,&#8221; she said.

[...]

Grogan never got the chance to ask her question. &#8220;He already had a visit, so I wasn&#8217;t able to go in,&#8221; she said, adding that she&#8217;s not giving up. &#8220;I&#8217;m going to try and get a confession out of him.

[...]

Surrounded by friends and family, Grogan met with the Mohave Valley Daily News on Saturday evening to respond to negative comments about her on social media and other websites.

&#8220;Right now everybody&#8217;s just talking out their a--,&#8221; she said. &#8220;They don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going on.

---

More at the link with comments from family and friends. Definitely worth a read.

 

[bessie]

Idk if I can say this .... If not mods please remove

I saw a Screenshot of text messages between JJR and some other FB user . so he had to have had a phone

You can refer to what you've read on the perp's FB as long as you don't identify his FB friends. So your post is fine.

 

[newone]

"Grogan, who admitted she and the family were advised by the FBI to not discuss the case, has made several appearances on Las Vegas and Phoenix news channels over the past few days.

Surrounded by friends and family, Grogan met with the Mohave Valley Daily News on Saturday evening to respond to negative comments about her on social media .''

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...cle_2b908420-3660-11e4-a821-0019bb2963f4.html

advised not to talk about the case....but continuing to talk to media about her image? hmmmm

Even though the funeral costs have been covered completely -- she wants to raise funds to feed people and look after out of town family.

 

[news.talk]

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...cle_2b908420-3660-11e4-a821-0019bb2963f4.html

hang onto your hats as you read this one

JR didn't have a phone

Honestly, I don't even know where to begin commenting on this article. TG *again* seems more interested in getting money and clearing her name on social media, than the murder of her daughter.

After she stated that the FBI asked the suspect how he could do this TO TANIA, I could barely read I was shaking my head so hard.

Since there is no text on her phone, then clearly it never existed. She also counted Bella's toes and since they are all there, then everything questioning the events of the evening is wrong.

We get it - You're a GOOD mother. You never say no, you buy them expensive toys while the state pays for your children's lunches, since they have been around your drug addict friends their whole lives, it's OK because they are used to it. It's also the fault of the police that your daughter was not found in time... You truly are... A good mother.

 

[newone]

Honestly, I don't even know where to begin commenting on this article. TG *again* seems more interested in getting money and clearing her name on social media, than the facts of the case.

After she stated that the FBI asked the suspect how he could do this TO TANIA, I could barely read I was shaking my head so hard.

Since there is no text on her phone, then clearly it never existed. She also counted Bella's toes and since they are all there, then everything questioning the events of the evening is wrong.

We get it - You're a GOOD mother. You never say no, you buy them expensive toys while the state pays for your children's lunches, since they have been around your drug addict friends their whole lives, it's OK because they are used to it. It's also the fault of the police that your daughter was not found in time... You truly are... A good mother.

made my eyes big as saucers and protrude as if on stalks when she dismissed her daughter telling media about the texts......

I do hope some county health professionals read the interview....a rest cure may be in order....there's something miss-firing(MOO)

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Idk if I can say this .... If not mods please remove

I saw a Screenshot of text messages between JJR and some other FB user . so he had to have had a phone

fyi: one does not need a cell / mobile phone to send messages .. a computer and a message app enables the same.

 

[Oddsocks]

Idk if I can say this .... If not mods please remove

I saw a Screenshot of text messages between JJR and some other FB user . so he had to have had a phone

I'm pretty sure they were Facebook messages, not texts.

 

[newone]

fyi: one does not need a cell / mobile phone to send messages .. a computer and a message app enables the same.

the man was homeless from what I recall and he could feasibly use a tablet couldn't he so the comment by TG shouldn't be given much weight as per this latest article -- is that what you mean?

 

[news.talk]

I'm pretty sure they were Facebook messages, not texts.

Is there a way to tell if they were FB messages retrieved on a cell phone? I almost exclusively use my mobile for FB. I can't imagine the suspect stopped somewhere to use a desk-top while he was busy strangling and burying a child.

 

[Oddsocks]

Is there a way to tell if they were FB messages retrieved on a cell phone? I can't imagine the suspect stopped somewhere to use a desk-top while he was busy strangling and burying a child.

This was after he had allegedly been cleared by the FBI

 

[news.talk]

This was after he had allegedly been cleared by the FBI

The questions remains - if he is homeless and no one else would let him stay at their house, where did he go to use a desk-top?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

the man was homeless from what I recall and he could feasibly use a tablet couldn't he so the comment by TG shouldn't be given much weight as per this latest article -- is that what you mean?

It was an *FYI*, identifying the fact that one does not need a cell / mobile phone to send text messages .. nothing more than a simple, technical fact for future reference.

I am inclined to believe there were no text messages sent as described by the sibing ... even if TG had deleted messages sent to or from her mobile phone the carrier's (Verizon, ATT or whichever) records would reveal their existence and you can be sure the FBI has the records or is in process of obtaining them.

 

[newone]

Is there a way to tell if they were FB messages retrieved on a cell phone? I almost exclusively use my mobile for FB. I can't imagine the suspect stopped somewhere to use a desk-top while he was busy strangling and burying a child.

it was midnight too .... library would be closed. But according to TG = there was no text -- FBI had her phone -- that was just as disjointed as her quote in the article.

“How would Justin even have had a phone? Because the FBI had my phone and there wasn’t a text message. I just want that to be clear" and

'“I was told that my daughter made a statement to (the Daily News) and you (reporters) took it out of proportion, that there was a text message,” Grogan said. “Well, you know what? She’s 10 years old, under a lot of stress right now, and she doesn’t know what the heck she’s saying."

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...cle_2b908420-3660-11e4-a821-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[ChuckMaureen]

The questions remains - if he is homeless and no one else would let him stay at their house, where did he go to use a desk-top?

Possible resources:

* Friend's computer, tablet or smartphone.
* Public Library.
* Hotel (provided for guests but I've witnessed walk-ins casually enter the computer room and type away).
* Unknown if TG has a computer.