Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #2

[2Hope4]

** OFF TOPIC, KINDA**

I know I'm flawed, so I don't know if I place guilt on myself unnecessarily or not. Anyway, my cat was killed two days ago. It was my fault. Smokey (the cat) had jumped onto the hood of a visitor's truck (which he knew he wasn't suppose to), and I verbally told him no, and took him off the hood, held him for awhile while the visitor was leaving the driveway, and then put him back down. Mere minutes later, my daughter pulled into the driveway, it's paved and gray in appearance, and didn't see the gray cat, Smokey, and hit him. Smokey died. If only I had brought him into the house, as it was getting dark, and he sleeps in the house, he would be alive. This is the first I've talked to anyone about it because it hurts too much. :tantrum:

Do other Moms guilt themselves even though it wasn't truly your fault?

 

[Magdalyn]

** OFF TOPIC, KINDA**

I know I'm flawed, so I don't know if I place guilt on myself unnecessarily or not. Anyway, my cat was killed two days ago. It was my fault. Smokey (the cat) had jumped onto the hood of a visitor's truck (which he knew he wasn't suppose to), and I verbally told him no, and took him off the hood, held him for awhile while the visitor was leaving the driveway, and then put him back down. Mere minutes later, my daughter pulled into the driveway, it's paved and gray in appearance, and didn't see the gray cat, Smokey, and hit him. Smokey died. If only I had brought him into the house, as it was getting dark, and he sleeps in the house, he would be alive. This is the first I've talked to anyone about it because it hurts too much. :tantrum:

Do other Moms guilt themselves even though it wasn't truly your fault?

Most do.

Rayne Perrywinkle is impervious to feelings of responsibility and guilt, according to all her commentary to MSM. I suspect there are other mothers in this world whose psychological make-up does not allow them to accept any culpability for anything. Some are narcissists, some have sociopathic tendencies, some are addicts.

I'm so very sorry for the loss of Smokey. It was not your fault. :therethere:

 

[lillybell]

** OFF TOPIC, KINDA**

I know I'm flawed, so I don't know if I place guilt on myself unnecessarily or not. Anyway, my cat was killed two days ago. It was my fault. Smokey (the cat) had jumped onto the hood of a visitor's truck (which he knew he wasn't suppose to), and I verbally told him no, and took him off the hood, held him for awhile while the visitor was leaving the driveway, and then put him back down. Mere minutes later, my daughter pulled into the driveway, it's paved and gray in appearance, and didn't see the gray cat, Smokey, and hit him. Smokey died. If only I had brought him into the house, as it was getting dark, and he sleeps in the house, he would be alive. This is the first I've talked to anyone about it because it hurts too much. :tantrum:

Do other Moms guilt themselves even though it wasn't truly your fault?

I know this feeling, 2hope4, I too lost a pet in an awful car accident. I blamed myself for a long time.
Horrible feeling!
Just wanted you to know I'm sorry about smokey, and be kind on yourself

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I am not willing to take the blame for this child's death because I wasn't able to help TG 'grow' beyond her addiction and bad choices. That would be up to her.
I always bristle when I hear someone defend someone else's heinous actions. I'm not condemning the mother, but her choices and actions lead to her child's murder. When society becomes indifferent to the influence of drug culture, and the crimes that support it, we are all in serious trouble.
I think it is productive to take a stand, ...it's really all we can do with our frustration when we see one child after another sacrificed to a lifestyle.

If I hear one more statement that goes like "it wasn't him, it was the drugs"... I will implode... it WAS him... on drugs.

Please reference the post(s) or article(s) that includes the claim, "it wasn't him, it was the drugs" .. I missed that.

I still contend that TG's "choices and actions" did NOT "lead to her child's murder." TG's inviting JJR to staying with the family until he got on his feet was not so different than the Wrights inviting GG to dinner. Yes, GG has no record of pedophilia but neither does JJR (as far as we know).

Clearly, JJR had it in him to abduct, molest (assumed) and murder a child. That makes him a pedophile, which is an entirely different diagnosis than "he is addicted to drugs" (which we may confidently assume he is, as revealed by his stint in rehab <assumed drug rehab>).

If the murdering of this child was a method for him to ultimately obtaining a drug fix then I might agree with that assessment. As it stands, it appears he may have molested the child (body found with no underwear / shorts) and murdered the child.

And JJR's other issues are not directly indicative of him being a pedophile although they should have given TG pause to allowing him near her children. TG's "choice" of allowing JJR near her children no more caused JJR to murder her child than the word "day" did because it includes the letter "y".

If TG somehow knew JJR to be a pedophile, then I would totally and completely agree with the assessment.

 

[Ontario Mom]

"Bella never listened to me because I let her walk all over me,&#8221; Grogan recalled. &#8220;I never once scolded her. Even though I said &#8216;Bella, you&#8217;re grounded for life,&#8217; I&#8217;d still buy her everything she wanted. There&#8217;s a $600 trampoline outside and an $800 inflatable water slide,&#8221; added Folster. &#8220;What kind of kids get that?&#8221; (http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...cle_2b908420-3660-11e4-a821-0019bb2963f4.html)

What kind of kids get that? Well, in many cases the kinds of kids who get that are the kids being raised up by people who assume buying expensive toys = good parenting.

On another note, how is it these girls were qualifying for free lunch if the parents had that kind of money to burn on expensive yard toys?

Maybe it's just me, but if I were in TG's position the last thing I'd be doing is engaging in social media (she is, she's online reading & commenting, I've seen it) and/or giving interviews to the media. I'd need someone to step up as a family spokesperson or something while I continued to weep my heart out from the fetal position on my bed.

From the same article:

"Not to mention the FBI thinks it&#8217;s a good idea because when he lawyered up and the FBI agent walked out of the room and said, &#8216;Why did you do this to Tania?&#8217; that was a trigger and he broke down. He stood his ground until he heard my name."

This made me nauseated. He didn't do this to Tania, he did this to Bella. BELLA is the victim in this but Tania seems to have this need to make this all about Tania. Mind boggling.

 

[Seajay]

Grogan says she left Isabella and her older sister upstairs with Folster's mother. She claims she did not even know Rector, a family friend, was in the home. Court records, however, state Grogan's two children were downstairs with Rector and three other friends. Grogan says she called police after searching for Isabella for more than 40 minutes.

Do we know what the three other friends have to say?

Good question. When I read that part, I thought the same thing, but I have the attention span of a gnat, so thank you for picking up this question. I'd like answers to who these other three friends are, where were they when JJR took off with Bella, and what do they have to say for themselves in all this drama. Maybe they could get the timeline straight since (modsnip) doesn't seem to have a watch.

 

[margarita25]

One thing I find interesting is that generally (and for me personally), it seems to be a natural reaction for a parent to feel responsible for any unfortunate circumstances that may fall upon his or her child ("I must have done something wrong here, this is my fault, maybe if I would or wouldn't have done this or that, did this happen to my child because of some way I failed him/her, etc..."). I know that when my little one got sick with cancer, (canine), there were thoughts infiltrating my head, like "was it something I fed her", "did this happen because I exposed her to the park where there might have been pesticides, etc etc...". In other words, I feel like it is more natural for one to try to blame themselves than to alternately say "this is not my fault" kind of thing, kwim? Of course, none of us are in TG's situation, and everyone deals with grief in different ways, (also, she could be in defensive mode naturally as a result of all the accusations, etc), but I would think and guess it would be more natural for a parent to want to accept their role of responsibility in the situation, than to not to. Again, maybe this is something that will change in TG over time after the initial shock wears off, etc. jmo

eta: I guess what I'm saying is I think that if I were in this situation, I would feel and might have no problem saying this is partly my fault.

eta: She's in denial?

 

[Seajay]

"Not to mention the FBI thinks it’s a good idea because when he lawyered up and the FBI agent walked out of the room and said, ‘Why did you do this to Tania?’ that was a trigger and he broke down. He stood his ground until he heard my name."

This made me nauseated. He didn't do this to Tania, he did this to Bella. BELLA is the victim in this but Tania seems to have this need to make this all about Tania. Mind boggling.

Once again, this screams to me "narcissist". All about her, how could this happen to her, what did she do to deserve this. Yet when she talked about visiting Bella in the morgue, or funeral home, she sounded so matter of fact about her hands and toes. Didn't sound emotional at all. Not in print anyway. Her words disgusted me. Again, more concerned with what SM is saying instead of mourning her beautiful 8 year old daughter's passing and murder. :facepalm:

 

[Ontario Mom]

I still contend that TG's "choices and actions" did NOT "lead to her child's murder." TG's inviting JJR to staying with the family until he got on his feet was not so different than the Wrights inviting GG to dinner. Yes, GG has no record of pedophilia but neither does JJR (as far as we know).

I'm trying really hard to see this from your viewpoint but I'm struggling, big time.

The difference I'm seeing here is the difference between letting a fluffy bunny into your home (who turned out to have rabies, only discovered after the fact) and letting a diseased wolf into your home (known to have the disease, and while never having devoured a child before, was certainly a KNOWN higher risk than the bunny).

I fail to see how you can even compare the two cases.

In Jenise's case, GG was by all accounts a good kid, involved in sports, good grades, no prior record, etc. He was for all intents and purposes, the kid next door.
By stark contrast, JR has a criminal record, known to be dangerous, violent, irresponsible, etc.

Just because he'd never killed a child before DOESN'T mean he wasn't a high risk person to have in your home around your children simply due to his lifestyle of crime.

 

[kimi_SFC]

2Hope4
:hug:



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ChuckMaureen]

If this isn't obstruction of justice then I don't know what is:

911: So you had her with you at Walmart and then she disappeared?
RF: No no no no. She stayed at home with her sister and her mom getting ready for bed. Her sister and my mom getting ready for bed and when we got back she was already gone.
911: You left her an hour ago?
RF: About an hour, hour and a half.
911: And she was there at the Lakeside house?
RF: Yeah.
911: Okay, and where was she when they last saw her?
RF: She was getting ready for bed in the living room. That's the last place I seen her.
911: And so that's when you left and went to Walmart?
RF: Yes.
911: Alright, and you said so the little girl was home with her Grandma?
RF: With her sister and her Grandma. Her Grandma I believe is asleep so...
911: And how old is her sister?
RF: Her sister is 10.
911: And what does your 10, what does your 10 year old sister say?
RF: She said that she's not able to find her. She says she's been looking for her and can't find her.

&#8220;I got a call from my older daughter saying she couldn&#8217;t find Bella. She couldn&#8217;t find Justin. We looked around outside, then we called police,&#8221; Bella's mother told the Nancy Grace team.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/09/05/911-call-missing-isabella-grogan-cannella

Grogan says she left Isabella and her older sister upstairs with Folster's mother. She claims she did not even know Rector, a family friend, was in the home. Court records, however, state Grogan's two children were downstairs with Rector and three other friends. Grogan says she called police after searching for Isabella for more than 40 minutes.

http://www.kpho.com/story/26461801/isabellas-mother-she-was-my-baby-she-was-my-world?autostart=true

I am doubting when the group actually returned from Wal-Mart / where ever to the house to finally realize Isabella was truly *missing*. It almost seems they did not return immediately and that RF was not made fully aware of the situation when he made the 911 call .. that he was not aware that JJR had returned to the house after they left for Wal-Mart? I'm betting TG did not believe or at did not understand the older sibling that JJR had returned to house after they left (assuming JJR did in fact leave the house when the group left for Wal-Mart as has been claimed).

Again ... more unknowns.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

** OFF TOPIC, KINDA**

I know I'm flawed, so I don't know if I place guilt on myself unnecessarily or not. Anyway, my cat was killed two days ago. It was my fault. Smokey (the cat) had jumped onto the hood of a visitor's truck (which he knew he wasn't suppose to), and I verbally told him no, and took him off the hood, held him for awhile while the visitor was leaving the driveway, and then put him back down. Mere minutes later, my daughter pulled into the driveway, it's paved and gray in appearance, and didn't see the gray cat, Smokey, and hit him. Smokey died. If only I had brought him into the house, as it was getting dark, and he sleeps in the house, he would be alive. This is the first I've talked to anyone about it because it hurts too much. :tantrum:

Do other Moms guilt themselves even though it wasn't truly your fault?

:grouphug: 2Hope4 :grouphug:

 

[margarita25]

** OFF TOPIC, KINDA**

I know I'm flawed, so I don't know if I place guilt on myself unnecessarily or not. Anyway, my cat was killed two days ago. It was my fault. Smokey (the cat) had jumped onto the hood of a visitor's truck (which he knew he wasn't suppose to), and I verbally told him no, and took him off the hood, held him for awhile while the visitor was leaving the driveway, and then put him back down. Mere minutes later, my daughter pulled into the driveway, it's paved and gray in appearance, and didn't see the gray cat, Smokey, and hit him. Smokey died. If only I had brought him into the house, as it was getting dark, and he sleeps in the house, he would be alive. This is the first I've talked to anyone about it because it hurts too much. :tantrum:

Do other Moms guilt themselves even though it wasn't truly your fault?

Hugs to you 2Hope4!!

Oddly, I just made a VERY SIMILAR post to yours without even reading yours!!! (post 727)

 

[Magdalyn]

I'm trying really hard to see this from your viewpoint but I'm struggling, big time.

The difference I'm seeing here is the difference between letting a fluffy bunny into your home (who turned out to have rabies, only discovered after the fact) and letting a diseased wolf into your home (known to have the disease, and while never having devoured a child before, was certainly a KNOWN higher risk than the bunny).

I fail to see how you can even compare the two cases.

In Jenise's case, GG was by all accounts a good kid, involved in sports, good grades, no prior record, etc. He was for all intents and purposes, the kid next door.
By stark contrast, JR has a criminal record, known to be dangerous, violent, irresponsible, etc.

Just because he'd never killed a child before DOESN'T mean he wasn't a high risk person to have in your home around your children simply due to his lifestyle of crime.

To further your point, no one on the Jenise threads is criticizing the Wrights for not surmising beforehand that GG was a violent child predator. The critical commentary on the Wrights is the fact that they did not lay eyes on their six year old for an entire day, allegedly found it concerning, yet did not call police until 24 hours after she was last seen.

The critical commentary here is that known criminals with convictions that range from drug use, assault, weapons charges, false statements to LE, burglary, etc, are allowed to reside in a home with TG's children. In most states, abuse and neglect charges often stem from what dangerous elements (drugs, weapons, chemicals, violence) children are exposed to....in a single instance, or chronically.

On top of that, when LE was contacted, the fact that the child was last seen playing 'hide-and-seek' with a known felon, and here's his name, please put out an APB, was glaringly omitted.

The common denominator I see is that in both cases, the children were made vulnerable to their predators (made easy pickings) by risky, possibly criminally endangering/negligent choices made by parents.

 

[margarita25]

(There are so many irresponsible parents out there imo. I know a few of them myself. I know one lady (neighbor) who brings her what seems like daily online dates home for "overnighters"---she has a young boy in the house (not to mention leaving him for hours on end alone, the poor little kid has even knocked on my door before asking for food.)

eta: On the flipside, I meet many many awesome awesome parents through teaching! There are really good parents out there too!)

 

[margarita25]

Question, has it been printed anywhere what things Bella was especially fond of? I'd like to post some sort of graphical tribute to her, with something she loved, similar to all the purple angels...TIA.

 

[margarita25]

:grouphug: 2Hope4 :grouphug:

Ditto!

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Speaking of allowing known felons into her home, she is living with one herself. He is referred to as "Daddy" although he's not the daddy. He's been charged with his share of crimes (one just last week, in fact) and has been charged as a felon for having a gun.

I can see where TG believes she's not done too many bad things when making comparison to those close to her. It's another way to distance herself from the fact that she, indeed, did NOT maintain a child-friendly home.

Look up my "criminal record" and you might see two parking tickets and two speeding tickets... and I've been driving since 1964. Yikes! It's been 50 years. It never dawned on me that back-to-school shopping would be a 5-finger discount. TG even mentions she did illegal things to take care of her daughter. Did she ever hold a job? Who pays the rent on that little house they crowd who knows how many people into? In fact, does anybody in that house have a job?

 

[MsMarple]

Speaking only for myself I can understand why TG let JR be a part of her life. After all, both TG and RF have long arrest records, just like JR. All three have been involved with drugs and thefts for years. Why would they be wary of someone whose lifestyle was exactly the same as theirs? Birds of a feather.

What I can't understand is why TG and RF chose to lie to 911 and the responding LEO's, knowing full well JR had taken Bella. Even the most gullible parent would be suspicious if a man whom she “trusted with her life” took off in the middle of the night with her precious daughter. Otherwise, why bother to call 911?

That they did call 911 proves they knew JR didn't take Bella for any innocent reason. Yet they deliberately withheld the single most important piece of information from the LE and the search team.

911: Okay, I'm going to have units coming over there to see if we can assist you in finding the child. Is there anyplace else where she might go?
RF: I haven't the slightest clue. We have a giant park across the street from us at the soccer fields and all that. And there's a whole bunch of river access and stuff like that.
911: Okay. Does she ever go down to the river?
RF: She usually doesn't leave by herself, that's why it's a little odd.

And now TG has the gall to lash out at the public and the media because we have all seen her for what she is. Tania's angry because we don't buy what she's saying. She's angry at being called a liar and a bad mother.

And now she believes only she has the power to make JR confess - it's all about her. Poor, poor Bella, relegated to second place by her mother.

 

[margarita25]

BBM:

Speaking of allowing known felons into her home, he is living with one herself. He is referred to as "Daddy" although he's not the daddy. He's been charged with his share of crimes (one just last week, in fact) and has been charged as a felon for having a gun.
rsbm

Which brings us back to...

I find the timing of all that interesting.

IMO, Bella's murder was likely a sexually motivated crime. However, I could not help but wonder if Bella had maybe witnessed something relating to other criminal activity, that perhaps might have made someone concerned and wanted her to be eliminated as a witness.

Hypothetically entertaining this scenario, that would mean that Bella's lack of underpants was all a staging, to make it seem a pedophile killed her, instead of her death being the result of witness elimination. But then, this does not account for why JJR stole underwear at Walmart, which makes me doubt the above hypothetical scenario, unless she was murdered for 2 reasons, kwim?

A couple questions: Why did JJR feel the need to steal undwerwear THAT NIGHT? I mean, I know he was homeless, does this mean he only had 1 pair of underwear? Did he anticipate that LE would ask to see clean underwear?

Also, (dang, just forgot my question/train of thought...argghh)