Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #3

[Ontario Mom]

How did I miss this? Maybe it's because the story changes every time I blink?

"We came back because (my older daughter) called and said she couldn't find (Isabella). (She said) that Justin and (Isabella) were gone," said Grogan. Grogan says she left Isabella and her older sister upstairs with Folster's mother. She claims she did not even know Rector, a family friend, was in the home. Court records, however, state Grogan's two children were downstairs with Rector and three other friends. Grogan says she called police after searching for Isabella for more than 40 minutes" http://www.wistv.com/story/26461801/isabellas-mother-she-was-my-baby-she-was-my-world

I thought the "friends" left with TG and RF for those snacks at Walmart.

 

[Magdalyn]

How did I miss this? Maybe it's because the story changes every time I blink?

"We came back because (my older daughter) called and said she couldn't find (Isabella). (She said) that Justin and (Isabella) were gone," said Grogan. Grogan says she left Isabella and her older sister upstairs with Folster's mother. She claims she did not even know Rector, a family friend, was in the home. Court records, however, state Grogan's two children were downstairs with Rector and three other friends. Grogan says she called police after searching for Isabella for more than 40 minutes" http://www.wistv.com/story/26461801/isabellas-mother-she-was-my-baby-she-was-my-world

I thought the "friends" left with TG and RF for those snacks at Walmart.

The police report allegedly states grandma was sleeping upstairs, and the three friends were also upstairs with TG and RF.

Bullhead City, AZ (KTNV) -- The Bullhead City Police Department has released the police report connected to the death of 8-year-old Isabella 'Bella' Grogan-Cannella.

The report says Bella and her 10-year-old sister were at home with their mother Tania Grogan, her husband Ralph Foster and his mother, and three of Grogan's friends on Sept. 1.

The adults were upstairs and the two girls were downstairs. Justin James Rector was also downstairs with the girls.

At some point, most of the adults left the house. Before leaving, Grogan told the two girls to watch a movie downstairs. Foster's mother was upstairs in bed

http://www.jrn.com/ktnv/news/Police...arrest-in-Bullhead-City-murder-274120571.html

 

[Ontario Mom]

Interesting that both articles were posted on the same day, both claim the police report was the source of their info, and yet they contradict each other. Which leaves me wondering, aside from RF's mother upstairs asleep and Rector, were there actually any other adults there after TG and RF left? Or did one of these reporters just read the report incorrectly? I'd sure love to see a copy of that police report myself. The article states it's been released - is there a way to get a copy of that?

 

[SCHMAE]

JJR had to enter in to a state of mind in which his thoughts included Isabella. The depravity is his decision to proceed with kidnapping and to remove her clothing and (assumed) rape her (not a charge at this time but given the state in which Isabella was found we might expect this charge to be added in the future) and then murder her.

I am NOT implying he was not responsible for his actions .. just that at that *time*, and in that *place*, having been exposed to Isabella for at least a few days and assumed nights (JJR was staying at TG's house for a few days) that he succumbed to his inner demon.

In the seemingly popular trend now to bash TG to no end, it seems possibilities are thrown out the window and the absolute worse is assumed, alternative possibilities be damned. Ok, that is what it is, but I tend to allow for other possibilities regardless of what seems 'obvious' to the world.

Regarding the item of when JJR left and / or seen .. reporting has been varied on this (based on what we are told TG and Isabella's sister said and what we know that RF did not say on the 911 call.

I, as well as many others have read multiple news articles that have reported that TG said what Isabella's sister told her: "I can't find Bella. I can't find Justin." .. but in all of those articles that included a video interview of TG, not one (that I have found but certainly could have missed) we never see TG on video making that statement. I just want to watch TG on any video as she makes that statement ..

It is possible that Isabella's sister did indeed say that to TG (via phone while TG et al were "at Wal-Mart"). It is possible that JJR may have indeed left the house the same time or even before TG and group left for Wal-Mart and when Isabella's sister called TG and included "I can't find Justin", that TG blew it off because she saw JJR leave the house earlier so the statement did not make sense to her. It *is* possible. By the time they returned home they began looking around the house and then where ever else.

As for RF not mentioning JJR, it is possible TG never mentioned to RF what Isabella's sister said to her on the phone. When they arrived to home they likely could have split up to search different areas inside and outside the house. When LE arrived and eventually interviewed Isabella's sister and them asking her specific questions, she revealed that JJR had indeed been with the girls (he returned to the house knowing TG and group had left). Speculation, obviously, but it is a possible scenario given the late hour, fatigue, possible 'other' issues and panic and chaos that ensues when searching for a missing child.


Note that I am not attempting to DEFEND anyone in the case. I do not have a dog in this race. I simply am attempting to play out possible scenarios.

BBM, True and while she may not be winning any mommy awards, bashing her has taken the place of bashing the actual PERP in this case. JR is getting almost no talk about him at all, other than where he was at what time and how TG allowed him to be there. Yes, TG is a TOS violation , but JR is the perp!!!!!!!!!!
BBM 2 ! But apparently not inside the grandma's room

 

[justanother]

http://ktla.com/2014/09/08/arizona-...strangled-police-investigating-possible-rape/

So rape isn't ruled out like is being suggested? I am assuming all these searches are for her underwear, maybe sheets etc? I read mom said bella just had shorts on, no underwear? I assumed they have his old underwear. I just can't wrap my head around naked below the waist and him buying new underwear.

 

[Magdalyn]

BBM, True and while she may not be winning any mommy awards, bashing her has taken the place of bashing the actual PERP in this case. JR is getting almost no talk about him at all, other than where he was at what time and how TG allowed him to be there. Yes, TG is a TOS violation , but JR is the perp!!!!!!!!!!
BBM 2 ! But apparently not inside the grandma's room

BBM

I see no TOS defined bashing here. That would be a violation of TOS and should be reported to a mod.

 

[skibaboo]

BBM, True and while she may not be winning any mommy awards, bashing her has taken the place of bashing the actual PERP in this case. JR is getting almost no talk about him at all, other than where he was at what time and how TG allowed him to be there. Yes, TG is a TOS violation , but JR is the perp!!!!!!!!!!
BBM 2 ! But apparently not inside the grandma's room

I'm shocked TG is getting more hatred than JJR but I think if you consider LE has not ruled out further arrests. for all we know at this stage JJR may be A perp but not the ONLY perp. I don't think that LE has come out and said there are no other suspects or that the parents (TG/RF) have been cleared. I don't know about anyone else but personally I think if they had the hatred towards TG may not be so 'intense'. Of course TG's conduct in the media and the community isn't helping matters IMO

ETA: To clarify I think the 'bashing' being referred to is on SM and not here on WS, and that is what my response is aimed at.

ETA 2: I don't condone the bashing on SM but in the circumstances and considering LE HAVE stated they haven't ruled out further arrests, I do understand the reasoning behind it.

 

[skibaboo]

https://www.facebook.com/343118996584/photos/a.397205416584.165189.343118996584/10152711938561585/?type=1&theater

 

[skibaboo]

BULLHEAD CITY — More than 1,000 people are expected today for a memorial service for Isabella “Bella” Grogan-Cannella, the 8-year-old Bullhead City girl slain last week.

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news/expected-at-girl-s-memorial/article_610451c2-3985-11e4-a7b3-8bbe2fbac509.html

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

snipped for focus

She is quoted, within quotes, by Greg Argos of WIST.10. I have never seen a journalist put words within quotes that were not a verbatim statement from the speaker. When they paraphrase, it is without quotes. It's journalist 101. If she was paraphrased, the sentences would not be within quotes, as seen in the next paragraph. Surely we're not accusing the journalist of lying about what exactly she said when he put it in quotes.

http://www.wistv.com/story/26461801/isabellas-mother-she-was-my-baby-she-was-my-world



http://www.wistv.com/story/26461801/isabellas-mother-she-was-my-baby-she-was-my-world

We're all here playing out multiple scenarios. Your post was using Occam's Razor in your summary as your reason for your leanings. My post was simply to point out the multiple assumptions that have to be made in the theorizations you laid out in your post, which throws Occam's Razor out the window.

I am not contending whether or not TG made the statement .. but if exists a video interview of TG making that statement please someone post the link .. I want to see her face as she makes the statement.

As I had commented, reporting has been varied .. but I would append this: or at least has contained varying reports on what had been stated. As for "journalist 101":

Isabella Grogan-Cannella’s 10-year-old sister told the Mohave Valley Daily News on Tuesday evening that she heard yelling and when she came out of the bathroom, Rector and her sister were gone. [BHCPD Chief Brian] Williamson specifically contradicted that statement at Thursday’s news conference.

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...cle_94681350-34d0-11e4-b9e5-0019bb2963f4.html

The reporter claims that Isabella's sister "told the Mohave Valley Daily News on Tuesday evening that she heard yelling". Yes, the reporter did not explicitly "quote" Isabella's sister's statements but the reporter none the less claimed that is what the sister told them. From the average reader's perspective there is no significant difference regarding quoted or not quoted .. the difference is significant only after that reader watches a video in which the BHCPD Chief outright contradicts the reporter.

I would contend that not knowing if reporting is 100% accurate and not knowing if it presented in proper context (either via journalists or via police / spokesmen) that one has to make assumptions to drill down to possible scenarios.


Regarding this excerpt from the article you linked:

"We came back because (my older daughter) called and said she couldn't find (Isabella). (She said) that Justin and (Isabella) were gone," said Grogan.


Grogan says she left Isabella and her older sister upstairs with Folster's mother. She claims she did not even know Rector, a family friend, was in the home. Court records, however, state Grogan's two children were downstairs with Rector and three other friends. Grogan says she called police after searching for Isabella for more than 40 minutes.

I believe the reporter (using the verb "claims") could have misinterpreted what TG may have intended: that she did not know Rector was in the home because (as had been reported elsewhere) that Rector had left the dwelling either before or when TG and group left the dwelling to go to Wal-Mart.

The reporter then states, "Court records, however, state Grogan's two children were downstairs with Rector and three other friends." Inclusion of that statement is virtually useless because it is not placed in context to the timeline. Is it that the 'two children, Rector and three other friends' were there earlier in the evening when everyone was still at the dwelling or was it after TG and the group left for Wal-Mart?

Who are the "three other friends" and how does that relate to either TG not knowing Rector was downstairs [or possibly had returned to the dwelling after she left for Wal-Mart] or that Isabella had gone missing?

IMO, the reporting is unclear .. and leads one to make assumptions on what the subjects intended as well as what the reporter intended.

 

[SCHMAE]

BBM

I see no TOS defined bashing here. That would be a violation of TOS and should be reported to a mod.

I meant how I personally feel about TG would be a huge TOS violation if I expressed it here !

 

[gitana1]

Some possibilities that have been discussed as to why the mom and stepdad misled LE:

1. An attempt to steer LE's focus away from the house because illegal items (drugs, weapons) were present.
2. Fear/mistrust of LE due to past dealings with them (everyone involved had criminal records).
3. Fear of CPS, which has been involved in the past.
4. Stepdad who made the 911 call was "befuddled" and didn't think JR was in the house and therefore not worth mentioning.
5. Afraid to mention JR because he was holding Bella hostage due to a drug dispute.

And so on. No sexual assault charges have been filed so far but IMO I find it hard to believe nothing happened since Bella was discovered half-clothed. I won't be surprised if they are added as the case progresses.

The only thing that's glaringly clear about this case (IMO) is that no one in that house considered Bella's safety to be their top priority and based on interviews with the mom and stepdad it seems that she continues to fall behind their concerns for themselves.

Thank you for that synopsis. Excellent. Im so busy I can't keep up

For me, the ransome thing feels too much like a movie. The delivering her to be killed to make up for a drug debt seems illogical and fantastic. The closest thing I can come to ad to actual parental involvement would be a Shaniya Davis type situation. But Thera no evidence of that, right? Just very odd behavior?

 

[Magdalyn]

I would contend that not knowing if reporting is 100% accurate and not knowing if it presented in proper context (either via journalists or via police / spokesmen) that one has to make assumptions to drill down to possible scenarios.

We are in agreement. Considering the variables in reporting, TG quotes, police reports, and then adding the family history, all theories being discussed require assumptions; no theories I've seen discussed here are far-fetched and unlikely.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

How did I miss this? Maybe it's because the story changes every time I blink?

"We came back because (my older daughter) called and said she couldn't find (Isabella). (She said) that Justin and (Isabella) were gone," said Grogan. Grogan says she left Isabella and her older sister upstairs with Folster's mother. She claims she did not even know Rector, a family friend, was in the home. Court records, however, state Grogan's two children were downstairs with Rector and three other friends. Grogan says she called police after searching for Isabella for more than 40 minutes" http://www.wistv.com/story/26461801/isabellas-mother-she-was-my-baby-she-was-my-world

I thought the "friends" left with TG and RF for those snacks at Walmart.

Some reporter's inclusion of subject or case-wide statements are virtually useless when not placed in context with the timeline. Frustrating....

 

[skibaboo]

Thank you for that synopsis. Excellent. Im so busy I can't keep up

For me, the ransome thing feels too much like a movie. The delivering her to be killed to make up for a drug debt seems illogical and fantastic. The closest thing I can come to ad to actual parental involvement would be a Shaniya Davis type situation. But Thera no evidence of that, right? Just very odd behavior?

No evidence that we know of no. I have thought about that theory a fair bit myself though. I didn't know the Shaniya Davis case, I had to google it.
The poor child

Came across this article http://www.wral.com/mother-pleads-guilty-in-shaniya-davis-death/13011614/

This quote from the mother (Shaniyas) gave me chills.

"I want to say I did the best I could with my children," she said. "I never said I was a perfect mother, but I was a good mother. I did what I had to provide for them. I did what I had to to make sure they were alright. I didn't have any help from anybody."

 

[tiredblondy]

Thank you for that synopsis. Excellent. Im so busy I can't keep up

For me, the ransome thing feels too much like a movie. The delivering her to be killed to make up for a drug debt seems illogical and fantastic. The closest thing I can come to ad to actual parental involvement would be a Shaniya Davis type situation. But Thera no evidence of that, right? Just very odd behavior?

Hmm You're right about the Shaniya Davis type situation. I hadn't even thought of that. We have no idea about the exact evidence they have or the amount but that theory is interesting. It would explain a lot for me, especially the mother's behavior and various contradictory statements.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

BBM: I hear what you are saying. The part that make that not work for me is this quote "Grogan said Rector never showed signs of aggression until recently. She said his ex-girlfriend recently filed police reports accusing him of strangling her pets." I don't care what anyone was charged with before. If a parent knows that an ex-girlfriend recently filed police reports accusing a man in her home of strangling pets, I can't understand allowing anyone who even MAY have done such a thing around their kids. If TG had this knowledge, and from this quote, she did, she would have to be pretty thick to not understand that this man could be a danger to her family. Period. That is why I absolutely cannot write off the "I had no idea he would do this." as any kind of reason for allowing this man in her home. Knowledge of possible animal strangulation=concern in a normal person's mind. JMO, of course.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/26463107/mother-on-childs-accused-killer-i-trusted-him

What we do not know is *when* was TG made aware of that information .. before or after allowing JJR to stay a few days in her dwelling? It is possible either JJR's ex or someone else familiar with that situation informed TG after JJR was arrested for the kidnapping / murdering Isabella.

 

[Tracey4AU]

No evidence that we know of no. I have thought about that theory a fair bit myself though. I didn't know the Shaniya Davis case, I had to google it.
The poor child

Came across this article http://www.wral.com/mother-pleads-guilty-in-shaniya-davis-death/13011614/


This quote from the mother (Shaniyas) gave me chills.

"I want to say I did the best I could with my children," she said. "I never said I was a perfect mother, but I was a good mother. I did what I had to provide for them. I did what I had to to make sure they were alright. I didn't have any help from anybody."

Ugh. Wish I hadn't read that. *shudder* Poor baby.

 

[cluciano63]

It really seems like she thinks her home life and the way she and her kids were living (seemingly surrounded by criminals and illegal activity, etc) is a perfectly acceptable and not extraordinary way of life, which is pretty sad. Wonder if her other daughter can manage to break out of this lifestyle when she gets older, if she survives her childhood. It is not easy if it is all you know. Jmo

 

[winterrose]

Since nothing's going on new, at this time, I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on something. We can't talk about anyone's SM page and I'm not going to get a TO by doing so today. This is not about one case, but in any CPS case. What is everyone's opinion on CPS using a public FB page in their cases and decision making?

To me, it's the perfect source to see the homelife of a child and their surroundings. It's so much more than just going into a home, and I know for a fact children get afraid to talk, they also love their parent, and usually don't want to be separated. Even if the homelife isn't good, to them it's the only world they know. What is your opinion, infringement of privacy, or many times necessary for the welfare of the child? I say if it's a public page, it's not an invasion of privacy, and many times the only way to save a child before something happens.