Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #3

[3blue1pink]

Ugh. Wish I hadn't read that. *shudder* Poor baby.

Exactly why I didn't click on the link ( I'd rather not know ) I don't think I can handle anymore news about hurting or neglecting kids right now .

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

Does anyone *really* know what the sister said to anyone? There has been so much variance in what has been reported in this case that I tend to not believe some of it. As far as the 911 call, and given what has been reported in news articles I am sticking to my interpretation.

Chucky,You mean the "befuddled" step-daddy that didn't know what Bella was wearing, her correct name, that JJR and Bella were gone when sister got out of the bathroom and notified Grandma (who was/wasn't sleeping while Mommy wailed upstairs?), called her Mom and told her that Bella and JJR were gone? And negected to tell 911 about sister's eyewitness that JJR and Bella were there, then gone.:facepalm:

I find it to be reasonable, and smart for RF to want to verify with Isabella's sister exactly what Isabella was wearing just before she went missing (because he was not there when Isabella disappeared). RF stated on the 911 call: "She was wearing .. let me ask her sister for sure because they like to change a lot."

As for RF not immediately and correctly stating her name, it does not lead me to conclude he was a bad father figure to or uncaring of Isabella (photos posted on Isabella's obit reveal seemingly positive interaction between RF and Isabella).

I doubt anyone in the home called Isabella, "Isabella". We may easily assume it was always, "Bella", with at least one variance on that theme, as per SM: "Bella Smella". Who knows what other name games occurred with a seemingly happy and fun-loving child? And during the call:

911 OP: "Have you checked all around the house?"
RF: "Yeah, I'm still looking all around the house."

It seems RF was still walking around the house searching for Isabella during the 911 call. He might have been distracted, etc.

It is possible that while RF was downstairs searching, TG was upstairs (and very distraught, as RF stated during the 911 call) and also searching or speaking with the GM.

As for the rest, who knows. Isabella's sister had called TG , not RF, when they were at Wal-Mart. We do not know all of what RF was told at that time. RF might not have been made aware that Isabella's sister had 'notified Grandma' and that JJR was there when Isabella disappeared. TG might not have told him and Isabella's sister might not have repeated that information to TG / RF when they arrived home.

There are a few possible scenarios and reasoning .. and I do not want to exclude analyzing for any scenario simply because people in SM and even in this forum claim TG and RF as being 'bad parents', 'tweekers', liars', etc.

I am not claiming any particular scenario is correct, I am only speculating there are a few possibilities given what the public has been told by LE and what has been reported in news media .. regardless of what some folks might think of the parents.

 

[winterrose]

SM is full of rumors and many times bizarre, most of it is pffftt, but you can find bits of truth on some rumors. I've found thru the years with MS and FB that it's the friends, family, and parent themselves that give a clear picture of the lifestyle. The media many times will take a stance, good or bad for the parents, and I've heard things on shows like NG where someone will say something that is completely untrue. I've heard things in the media spoken by some parents that were untrue, also. SM lays a clear picture into the personnal life surrounding a child. Actually LE usually doesn't tell much because when we're looking at things, it's all still under investigation. It's good to have things confirmed by them, though, but it's just so limited.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

No evidence that we know of no. I have thought about that theory a fair bit myself though. I didn't know the Shaniya Davis case, I had to google it.
The poor child

Came across this article http://www.wral.com/mother-pleads-guilty-in-shaniya-davis-death/13011614/

This quote from the mother (Shaniyas) gave me chills.

"I want to say I did the best I could with my children," she said. "I never said I was a perfect mother, but I was a good mother. I did what I had to provide for them. I did what I had to to make sure they were alright. I didn't have any help from anybody."

We might conclude that was not the case with TG and Isabella. Family and, by many accounts in SM, friends helped TG. It seems everyone loved Isabella and were willing to help as they could.

 

[winterrose]

Family and friends will help a parent, because of the children, but at some point finds it's useless if the parent won't help themselves. This is why you'll hear of some friends publicly stating they tried to help, and loved the children in many cases. Friends and family are usually the ones who call CPS to help kids. Everyone loved Bella and her sister, and are still reaching out to help both of Bella's sisters now.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

SM is full of rumors and many times bizarre, most of it is pffftt, but you can find bits of truth on some rumors. I've found thru the years with MS and FB that it's the friends, family, and parent themselves that give a clear picture of the lifestyle. The media many times will take a stance, good or bad for the parents, and I've heard things on shows like NG where someone will say something that is completely untrue. I've heard things in the media spoken by some parents that were untrue, also. SM lays a clear picture into the personnal life surrounding a child. Actually LE usually doesn't tell much because when we're looking at things, it's all still under investigation. It's good to have things confirmed by them, though, but it's just so limited.

I would dispute describing the 'picture' as being 'clear'. It might provide some insight but in no way is the picture near complete enough to enable for making accurate and potentially life-changing conclusions. Too many gaps, such as timeline (days, weeks, months or years?). Context, such as, is it Halloween makeup or abuse bruises? No smile that day because the child did not get her favorite toy at the store or was she abused an hour earlier?

Too many ifs on which to base such important conclusions and decisions.

Grain of salt. Question everything. Verify in person if possible, one-on-one interviews.

 

[skibaboo]

bbm



We might conclude that was not the case with TG and Isabella. Family and, by many accounts in SM, friends helped TG. It seems everyone loved Isabella and were willing to help as they could.

No, but it is the other part of the quote that gave me chills...

"I never said I was a perfect mother, but I was a good mother. I did what I had to provide for them. I did what I had to to make sure they were alright.

TG “I have made some bad choices but never have not been able to provide for my daughter, whether it be legal or not.”

 

[winterrose]

Oh, it depends on how deep you look, you need to search way back, and even with family and friends. I usually get a very clear picture of a lifestyle. Too many times it's the same scenario in so many cases, drugs, kids w/multiple partners, CPS, criminal records, etc. I also forgot to add I know CPS has so many cases, but if only they knew more, they could take children out before it's too late.

You don't get a clear picture by just talking to a person, people lie, family and friends can even cover, houses can be cleaned up, and people out of the home before CPS show up. Standing before a judge and showing you have a job doesn't mean you've improved your lifestyle, or drug tests doesn't show you don't have those people away from your kids. Saying a felon is out of your life doesn't mean they are, SM will show more than talk. I'm not saying SM is everything, but I feel it could be used effectively to give a clearer picture than just interviews.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

No, but it is the other part of the quote that gave me chills...

"I never said I was a perfect mother, but I was a good mother. I did what I had to provide for them. I did what I had to to make sure they were alright.

TG “I have made some bad choices but never have not been able to provide for my daughter, whether it be legal or not.”

Yes, a bit 'spooky' but I believe the equivalence stops with their similar statements .. there is no evidence that TG treated Isabella the way Shaniya was treated by her mother.

 

[Magdalyn]

Grain of salt. Question everything. Verify in person if possible, one-on-one interviews.

SBM

Is this professional advice? Is the implication no one (else) is doing this?

Too many ifs on which to base such important conclusions and decisions.

For you. And for LE. The rest of us are free to make our own conclusions and deductions. That's what this board is for.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Oh, it depends on how deep you look, you need to search way back, and even with family and friends. I usually get a very clear picture of a lifestyle. Too many times it's the same scenario in so many cases, drugs, multiple kids, partners, CPS, criminal records, etc.

I see what you're saying, but I am aware of more than one family whose parents were involved in illegal activity, including family-friends hanging around their house, etc. ...probably not too different from what we are led to believe regarding TG and her family... and that family's children (one girl, two boys) never were exposed to the illegal activity, even when the parents and friends 'partied' in their den or court date discussion, etc. --the children were sequestered to the play room and supervised by a family member (GM) who never participated in the activity in the den. Those children are now fine upstanding adults, as well as are their parents (they grew out of their wildness).

 

[tiredblondy]

SBM

Is this professional advice? Is the implication no one (else) is doing this?



For you. And for LE. The rest of us are free to make our own conclusions and deductions. That's what this board is for.

Totally agree and our own opinions are ours to form and the way I do that is by questioning what's known and not known and by past experience including former cases here. It is my opinion that mom is in a CYA mode and the why is what worries me.

 

[winterrose]

I also see what you're saying, but it only takes one of those people who come to the house to harm the child, as in this case. Ultimately it's the parents who exposed the kids to the lifestyle and people, so this is why you're seeing so much anger towards the parent. Not that there's not anger towards the suspect, but parents open that door.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

SBM

Is this professional advice? Is the implication no one (else) is doing this?



For you. And for LE. The rest of us are free to make our own conclusions and deductions. That's what this board is for.

That post seems defensive? If so, there is no need. If I'm wrong on that perception, I apologize.

My response was to winterrose' post regarding how CPS could make decisions based on the lifestyle surrounding a child as presented via SM and to winterrose' other, related posts.

I would think that CPS, for making life-changing decisions should not rely mainly on SM posts / pictures.

 

[winterrose]

You seem defensive? If so, there is no need. If I'm wrong on that perception, I apologize.

My contention was to winterrose' post regarding how CPS could make decisions based on the lifestyle surrounding a child as presented via SM and to winterrose' other, related posts.

I would think that CPS, for making life-changing decisions should not rely mainly on SM posts / pictures.

Oh no, SM not used mainly, but used along with normal procedures, just that it would show a clearer picture. I just don't think SM is used at all by CPS, I could be wrong, I've just not heard about it.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I also see what you're saying, but it only takes one of those people who come to the house to harm the child, as in this case. Ultimately it's the parents who exposed the kids to the lifestyle and people, so this is why you're seeing so much anger towards the parent. Not that there's not anger towards the suspect, but parents open that door.

For some reason when I hit reply, it never shows the message on my post, only my reply, strange.

Winterrose, clicking the "Reply With Quote" button will include a quote of the post to which your are replying. ;-)

Perhaps .. but what was done to Isabella could just as easily have been done by a non-criminal friend who was capable of committing child abuse [someone with a druggie, thief, non-child-crime assault criminal record does not automatically conclude to that someone being a child kidnapper, (assumed) molester and murderer].

How many cases are there where a child of a stand-up and law-abiding family was abused or murdered by a seemingly-stand-up and law-abiding close friend or acquaintance of the family, a friend who by all accounts was friendly and well-respected in the community? BTK is one extreme example.

This has been the point I had been trying to make in my earlier posts in these threads.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Oh no, SM not used mainly, but used along with normal procedures, just that it would show a clearer picture. I just don't think SM is used at all by CPS, I could be wrong, I've just not heard about it.

(note that the first line in my post to which your are replying was directed at Magdalyn's response to my previous post).

I suppose CPS' access to SM could prove helpful .. I would hope that access would be granted either by account owner consent or if necessary, via court order based on cause.

 

[Magdalyn]

You seem defensive? If so, there is no need. If I'm wrong on that perception, I apologize.

My contention was to winterrose' post regarding how CPS could make decisions based on the lifestyle surrounding a child as presented via SM and to winterrose' other, related posts.

I would think that CPS, for making life-changing decisions should not rely mainly on SM posts / pictures.

You mean my post seems defensive, I'm guessing, as we should be discussing posts, not posters.

Nope, just looking for clarity on your post. Your post does not contain the letters CPS, Nor did the post you were responding to with attached quote. Appreciate the clarity.

I would dispute describing the 'picture' as being 'clear'. It might provide some insight but in no way is the picture near complete enough to enable for making accurate and potentially life-changing conclusions. Too many gaps, such as timeline (days, weeks, months or years?). Context, such as, is it Halloween makeup or abuse bruises? No smile that day because the child did not get her favorite toy at the store or was she abused an hour earlier?

Too many ifs on which to base such important conclusions and decisions.

Grain of salt. Question everything. Verify in person if possible, one-on-one interviews.

 

[Magdalyn]

I also see what you're saying, but it only takes one of those people who come to the house to harm the child, as in this case. Ultimately it's the parents who exposed the kids to the lifestyle and people, so this is why you're seeing so much anger towards the parent. Not that there's not anger towards the suspect, but parents open that door.

BBM

I'm guessing if the imprisoned suspect was out on bail, and gave interviews daily, told us what a great babysitter he was, and was posting on SM, our thread would even out on posting content.

 

[winterrose]

ChuckMaureen,
I saw that after I mentioned it. LOL I hadn't been on for quite awhile, and it used to be just clicking the "reply" would bring up the quote, old habits.