GUILTY AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #3

[kevmoley]

Watch it live here:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Watch-LIVE-Memorial-service-for-slain-Bullhead-City-girl-274834911.html

 

[tier]

Respectfully:

To invite and engage with TG for to discuss what type of child was "Bella" and Isabella's sister, how Isabella's sister is handling the situation, what Isabella's sister said during the phone call and later, to discuss what circumstances led for to JJR need a place to stay, what was his demeanor that evening, when did he (really) leave, etc.

If the above idea is perceived as a method to "find excuses" and to "ignore the mistakes TG made" then I would have to say the take-away entirely misses the point and the value of developing such an opportunity.

In fact, I believe the idea would result in perhaps valuable and useful information (applicable to many such cases I would expect) than would simply labeling TG a dangerous parent, pointing out her weight problem and how (some in SM) make note of how often she's been eating out and about since the tragic event and letting those jabs simply float throughout the ether for the next millennium.

How many more different accounts do we need to hear? We are not LE. We cannot check every single path she leads us down. On top of that, this is about Bella not TG. Yes we are discussing TG ad nauseum but only because she keeps stepping in it with the media and not heeding the FBI who asked her not to talk.

I'm all for LE getting the correct details but it would seem like their past records they are once again giving false accounts to LE. Getting even more versions here directly from her is not needed until and unless she starts being 100% honest. Not for us. For her daughters.

 

[vasportsmom]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bhcbellastrong/ Some photos of the Memorial...

The pics are beautiful but is it really necessary for them to update everyone on where Tania is sitting? The last time I saw FB groups this vile was when Dylan Redwine was missing (I know that a few remain) and could have went my entire life without seeing them again. TG may be a horrible mother but she isn't the one looking dangerous and unfit right now.


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[Magdalyn]

Mayor has declared a road within Rotary Park will be named (with street sign) Bella's Way.

eta: no link, watching the memorial live

 

[ChuckMaureen]

A previously unnamed road in Bullhead City, now to be named: "BELLA'S WAY" ..as announced by the mayor of BHC.

 

[winterrose]

The pics are beautiful but is it really necessary for them to update everyone on where Tania is sitting? The last time I saw FB groups this vile was when Dylan Redwine was missing (I know that a few remain) and could have went my entire life without seeing them again. TG may be a horrible mother but she isn't the one looking dangerous and unfit right now.


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Oh, you don't even want to read there, people are harsh, eek!

 

[Magdalyn]

And.......the sound screwed up after the Mayor spoke. So.....

 

[Magdalyn]

Investigators served a search warrant at the family's home Thursday morning and could be heard telling people in the residence to come out with their arms up.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Watch-LIVE-Memorial-service-for-slain-Bullhead-City-girl-274834911.html

Hadn't seen that before in msm.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I only hope respect is given to Bella's sisters and paternal grandmother there and no one does anything creepy out of anger. I can't watch the live stream, I'll cry.

 

[vasportsmom]

Oh, you don't even want to read there, people are harsh, eek!

I just stupidly assumed they would dial it back some for the memorial. I won't argue that TG deserves respect or concessions but Bella seemed to love her mother and that should be all that matters right now. They could resume their crass commentary as soon as the family leaves.


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[winterrose]

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-no...-indicted-in-death-of-8-year-old-arizona-girl He was indicted on first-degree murder and felony counts of child abuse, abandonment of a dead body and kidnapping a minor under the age of 15.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Sadly, that is the exception, not the rule. Just because these children may survive being murdered, doesn't mean they don't pay a heavy price. Most of them grow up repeating the poor choices their parent's made.

Just because they survived doesn't mean they aren't affected significantly.

Is simply surviving the *test* for excusing and ignoring children at risk? What percentage is acceptable for growing up unscathed?

My overall point for offering my own experience with very, very close friends who have fully survived their addictions (with them and their children-now-adults being quite normal and released of their pain - I have particular intimate knowledge of and participation in their paths to recovery) is that such cases are not always and definitively lost causes and to immediately dismiss every case as such does a disservice to society overall. We are better than that as a society.

Do we simply stop attempting to break through the defensive, sometimes overly-scarred exteriors of addicted personalities and leave them to fend for themselves and wallow in their downward spiral without discovering reasons why such addictions occur and what makes the lifestyle concurrently destructive and attractive to them, and then bash the living excrement out of them when their situation presents with tragic result, without ever having attempted to lend a hand?

Remember: they are addicts. They are not thinking clearly. Simply attributing to them their knowing of "right from wrong" does not qualify the claim "they know what they're doing, they made a choice, they can unmake the choice."

NO. It is NOT that simple. They are addicts (addictive personality also includes non-drug-related dependencies). They can not control themselves. They will continue to say they need help. They will say they will get themselves straight. They will refuse offers of help. They must be broken, hit rock bottom for them to even consider a mildly serious attempt to getting straight. This, unfortunately, typically leads to a severely physical and / or mental injury that overpowers the desires to satisfy the addiction. A fear must be extinguished (fear they will not succeed), a realization they can survive without addiction, that being straight is a high in and of itself and .. the very odd aspect to this: *feeling straight* must satisfy the addictive desires. Replacement therapy is what worked for our friends.


I am not a "bleeding heart liberal" (wow, does that age me? ), as some might be thinking and I can almost feel anger directed at me, emanating through the monitor. I am not making excuses for their behavior. I have no sympathy for those who unequivocally and continually refuse to seek or accept help of any degree, especially those who have children. And yes, at some point you just have to accept a lost cause for what it is ... but, IMO, NOT before every proper attempt has been made to save that person regardless of what tragedy (that they are not DIRECTLY responsible for, i.e.: murdered their child or spouse) might have occurred during their sickness.

For argument's sake, let's say a "GT" (uh-huh) might be a lousy, addict mother, her daughter murdered at the hands of a 'family friend', a someone whom the mother thought she knew to be a nice guy even though she knew he has a criminal record that screams "I AM DANGEROUS". So, we comment, "GT is scum!", "GT is evil!", "GT is a baby killer enabler!" ........ I do not see a productive value in any of it, except maybe to fuel the anger coffers of people who might themselves have been victims and simply want to destroy the "evil addicts".

 

[news.talk]

My overall point for offering my own experience with very, very close friends who have fully survived their addictions (with them and their children-now-adults being quite normal and released of their pain - I have particular intimate knowledge of and participation in their paths to recovery) is that such cases are not always and definitively lost causes and to immediately dismiss every case as such does a disservice to society overall. We are better than that as a society.

Do we simply stop attempting to break through the defensive, sometimes overly-scarred exteriors of addicted personalities and leave them to fend for themselves and wallow in their downward spiral without discovering reasons why such addictions occur and what makes the lifestyle concurrently destructive and attractive to them, and then bash the living excrement out of them when their situation presents with tragic result, without ever having attempted to lend a hand?

Remember: they are addicts. They are not thinking clearly. Simply attributing to them their knowing of "right from wrong" does not qualify the claim "they know what they're doing, they made a choice, they can unmake the choice."

NO. It is NOT that simple. They are addicts (addictive personality also includes non-drug-related dependencies). They can not control themselves. They will continue to say they need help. They will say they will get themselves straight. They will refuse offers of help. They must be broken, hit rock bottom for them to even consider a mildly serious attempt to getting straight. This, unfortunately, typically leads to a severely physical and / or mental injury that overpowers the desires to satisfy the addiction. A fear must be extinguished (fear they will not succeed), a realization they can survive without addiction, that being straight is a high in and of itself and .. the very odd aspect to this: *feeling straight* must satisfy the addictive desires. Replacement therapy is what worked for our friends.


I am not a "bleeding heart liberal" (wow, does that age me? ), as some might be thinking and I can almost feel anger directed at me, emanating through the monitor. I am not making excuses for their behavior. I have no sympathy for those who unequivocally and continually refuse to seek or accept help of any degree, especially those who have children. And yes, at some point you just have to accept a lost cause for what it is ... but, IMO, NOT before every proper attempt has been made to save that person regardless of what tragedy (that they are not DIRECTLY responsible for, i.e.: murdered their child or spouse) might have occurred during their sickness.

For argument's sake, let's say a "GT" (uh-huh) might be a lousy, addict mother, her daughter murdered at the hands of a 'family friend', a someone whom the mother thought she knew to be a nice guy even though she knew he has a criminal record that screams "I AM DANGEROUS". So, we comment, "GT is scum!", "GT is evil!", "GT is a baby killer enabler!" ........ I do not see a productive value in any of it, except maybe to fuel the anger coffers of people who might themselves have been victims and simply want to destroy the "evil addicts".

If you read any of my other recent posts you would be able to discern that I am all for intervention.

However, if you're going to apply Occum's Razor to this or any case, you cannot also offer subjective exceptions to a rule - Just because you knew *someone* that was able to parent through a drug addicted haze and by some miracle, had children that survived, DOES NOT make it acceptable and excusable for anyone, including TG to do.

It doesn't make the child in this case, any less dead.

 

[winterrose]

There's some photos of the balloons, the girls with SW sending balloons up. They looked beautiful, bless their hearts. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203471181154414&set=pcb.736560726405744&type=1&theater

 

[jojo87]

I just cannot understand how the State allows these children to stay in such a bad environment. I've just read about the father in SC who murdered his five children. I believe drugs were involved in that household as well.
Of course TG didn't actually murder her child but the environment must have been bad enough for CPS to step in afterwards and remove her other child. It's a great shame it takes a childs death for action to be taken. Why is it? I suppose it's probably partly down to high case loads and lack of funds. I wonder if there will be an investigation to see if the State made mistakes. MOO

 

[vasportsmom]

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-no...-indicted-in-death-of-8-year-old-arizona-girl He was indicted on first-degree murder and felony counts of child abuse, abandonment of a dead body and kidnapping a minor under the age of 15.

As horrific as all that is, we can breathe a sigh of relief that there are no rape charges.


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[winterrose]

As horrific as all that is, we can breathe a sigh of relief that there are no rape charges.


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I thought the same thing, and because of that it brings more questions of why he took her in the first place. Why would he kidnap her if not for this reason, unless they've just not brought those charges yet. As it is, it's given more thought to what her sister said about him texting or messaging he had Bella.

 

[Magdalyn]

As horrific as all that is, we can breathe a sigh of relief that there are no rape charges.


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For now. From same article:

However, authorities said she didn't have any clothing on her lower half, and they still are looking into whether she was the victim of sexual assault.

 

[Amster]

Seems to me we've tried the touchy-feeley method of dealing with negligent parents long enough. How many children have to be injured, starved, abused or killed before we say enough! Maybe, just maybe, we can try something else! Like holding these adults responsible for their actions!! What a concept! No more, "oh, how sad. She/he is sick. Can't stop snorting or shooting up or drinking! Poor thing.....lost their baby....punished enough....lets see what we can do to excuse this awful behavior!" said while wringing hands. :facepalm:

Start holding these losers accountable. Make it a BIG DEAL. You have kids and neglect them....guess what? You will lose your freedom. Lose your little comforts. No more drugs or alcohol. No more being seen as a victim. No more people lining up to "help" you. (there will still be some who will....but they can do it on their own dime. While the negligent one is behind bars.) Do this enough and a message will be sent. And, I bet less kids will die or be injured & abused. Parent....you move a bf or gf into your home with your kids, and this person abuses or kills your child....you are accountable! Oh! You never imagined it could happen? Did you do a background check? Maybe date for a while? Get married before playing house? That commitment thing should help weed out the ones who you should run from. Is it really that difficult?

 

[scorekeeper]

It seems that the name calling from SM is being transferred here to WS. I have not seen any posters call TG "scum" or a "baby killer enabler". I find it offensive...jmo

I totally feel that her inactions as a parent put her children in danger and Bella paid the ultimate price, with her life.

Her attitude and the words that have came out of her mouth have not shown her in a positive light or as a "good mother".....her actions are "all about her"....if she is acting like this now.....what kind of mother was she 2 months ago??

JMO/MOO