GUILTY AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #4

[Ontario Mom]

And so is the (non-criminal type) parent who let her 3 year old child play in the front yard unsupervised "for five minutes" 100% indirectly responsible for her child having disappeared from the yard.

I don't know the back story on this case but on the surface I will say apples/oranges. A mother letting her child play in the yard has a certain built-in "safety" factor, whether realistic or not. On the other hand, a mother knowingly exposing her children to criminals and drug users has a certain high risk factor for some type of harm to come to those children. I don't believe for one moment TG didn't think her kids were at risk. She likely just didn't think it would happen to her family, hence her "why me?!" public wailing.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Until Bella went missing the biggest thing on his mind would have been his arraignment hearing that day.....so you do make an excellent point. (MOO)

I was going to say the same thing. He had court the next morning. It's entirely possible he wasn't partaking of whatever festivities were going on in the home that evening. Rather unlikely, in my opinion, but certainly possible.

 

[Ontario Mom]

We do agree that both parents are responsible. However, TG blatantly and regularly neglected her children to satisfy her own desires . Her own word as well as many documented circumstances prove this . We do not know if the mother that left her 3 year old was a chronic child neglector .

Assuming that the mom of the 3 year old had only one lapse in judgment . One could assume that her own grief would be punishment enough and that she would learn from her mistake. With the case of TG her past history proves she cannot or will not learn from her mistakes . As society we must ask ourselves would it be responsible to let TG et al. Get off Scott free ? Let her care for other children ? Any sane person would say no.

Let me ask you this . Would you let TG babysit your kids?

I think the most glaring difference (while outcome was still the same) is the level of culpability. While one parent likely believed the child was safe for a few moments alone, the other parent knew full well the child was not safe. I don't know if CPS was actually involved in TG having those girls removed from her care earlier this year but I can guarantee if they were she would have had explicit instructions from them to NOT have her children around certain types of people, i.e. criminals and drug users. Even if CPS wasn't involved, I know based on SM comments others who were actually worried about those kids (and her too) had told her publicly to get her act together (and this was before Bella's death). So even if she had some kind of mental issue going on where she couldn't process safety/risk on her own without being told, I do know she was told that life she was living was not safe. So yes she did indeed know those girls were at risk, and continued on with that lifestyle all the same.

 

[skibaboo]

If not, the only reason is because the 2 hours that Bella was being killed and 911 was not being called, they were cleaning the drugs out of the house.

This is what I have been wondering. And why I am very curious to read the search warrant. Re the panties on the wall, the bleach stained tshirt, hoodie, jeans and brown stained paper towels. What I am wondering, and totally speculating, is could these items have been tossed out during a 'clean up' made before calling 911 or even as the 911 call was being made.. TG upstairs distraught, or doing a rush clean up, maybe not even knowing what they were cleaning up? Knowing what LE said about the state of the home, the stench similar to a 'hoarders house' It may have been such a mess that these items didn't stand out, or they may have known/suspected something terrible had happened but panicked and cleaned up anyway.

 

[skibaboo]

Wow , I've missed a lot . Been busy with my own life ... Lol... Can anyone recap what happened today in court ?

JJR pleaded not guilty to all charges
TG was there with RF and a victim advocate rep 'visibly shaking and crying' according to reporters
JJR will remain in jail on no bond
Next court appearance Sept 30th re media request to allow photos, video at the trial
Trial expected to be Oct/Nov next year.

That's about it I think.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Just some thoughts after reading the Probable Cause statement again:

JR claims to have left the house shortly before TG & others (somewhere between 11-11:30)
Claims to have walked to his friend's house at 1383 Lause (a 20-25 minute walk according to google maps)
Claims no one answered the door but he kept knocking
Claims he then walked around, got lost, then went to Wal-mart
PC statement says he did not arrive at Wal-mart for another 3 hours (so 2:30-ish?)
PC statement states JR could not provide his whereabouts in those 3 hours

Earlier msm reports say he was picked up and questioned at around 3:20 am along hwy 95 but the PC statement does not include that.

PC statement states he was arrested for shoplifting on 9/2 at 10:15pm at 1383 Lause (the same house he claims to have gone to in the early morning hours after leaving TG's house and before going to Wal-mart).

PC statement also states there was a witness who reported seeing a person matching JR's description leaving the area of the shallow grave and walking towards Wal-mart shortly before he arrived there.

PC statement also states JR stole underwear and shoes at Wal-mart while in the company of *NAME REDACTED*

So he wasn't alone at Wal-mart while shoplifting.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

We do agree that both parents are responsible. However, TG blatantly and regularly neglected her children to satisfy her own desires . Her own word as well as many documented circumstances prove this . We do not know if the mother that left her 3 year old was a chronic child neglector .

Assuming that the mom of the 3 year old had only one lapse in judgment . One could assume that her own grief would be punishment enough and that she would learn from her mistake. With the case of TG her past history proves she cannot or will not learn from her mistakes . As society we must ask ourselves would it be responsible to let TG et al. Get off Scott free ? Let her care for other children ? Any sane person would say no.

Let me ask you this . Would you let TG babysit your kids?

My kids would bite her.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I don't know the back story on this case but on the surface I will say apples/oranges. A mother letting her child play in the yard has a certain built-in "safety" factor, whether realistic or not. On the other hand, a mother knowingly exposing her children to criminals and drug users has a certain high risk factor for some type of harm to come to those children. I don't believe for one moment TG didn't think her kids were at risk. She likely just didn't think it would happen to her family, hence her "why me?!" public wailing.

Maybe. Maybe not. I recall an "uncle" was interviewed, paraphrasing, 'It's the only life she knows' or 'It's all she's ever known', etc. Put that in perspective. Risk for abduction / (possible rape) / murder? I do not believe TG ever thought that any more possible than it would be for any other child. In her mind, her children were 'at risk' only of being taken from her, i.e., lose custody, based on her own behavior, not on the behavior of those around her. TG it seems was never presented with a reason to believe that a years-long-time friend (I believe possibly RF's cousin?) would abduct and murder a child, much less her own.

 

[geevee]

Just some thoughts after reading the Probable Cause statement again:

JR claims to have left the house shortly before TG & others (somewhere between 11-11:30)
Claims to have walked to his friend's house at 1383 Lause (a 20-25 minute walk according to google maps)
Claims no one answered the door but he kept knocking
Claims he then walked around, got lost, then went to Wal-mart
PC statement says he did not arrive at Wal-mart for another 3 hours (so 2:30-ish?)
PC statement states JR could not provide his whereabouts in those 3 hours

Earlier msm reports say he was picked up and questioned at around 3:20 am along hwy 95 but the PC statement does not include that.

PC statement states he was arrested for shoplifting on 9/2 at 10:15pm at 1383 Lause (the same house he claims to have gone to in the early morning hours after leaving TG's house and before going to Wal-mart).

PC statement also states there was a witness who reported seeing a person matching JR's description leaving the area of the shallow grave and walking towards Wal-mart shortly before he arrived there.

PC statement also states JR stole underwear and shoes at Wal-mart while in the company of *NAME REDACTED*

So he wasn't alone at Wal-mart while shoplifting.

BBM

I don't think that means he wasn't alone at WalMart, it says 'attempted to hide his old clothing that he wore at ****Lakeside while in the company of ****." I think the redacted name is probably Bella.

Love your posts though, OM.

 

[SCHMAE]

A very real possibility, but I would prefer a tighter timeline. As of yet it is loosely-defined to the point of being useless.

....wondering what, if anything, Isabella's sister would have to say about that evening regarding "cleaning" that might have occurred? Would she remain silent, or is she simply not privy to perhaps behind-closed-doors activities, or there was no (reason for) cleaning and there is nothing to be said?

In light of JJR's 'admission', will LE further pursue potential drug use by others that evening and potentially what role it might have played in Isabella's eventual kidnapping and murder? Or is that door forever closed, with no lead-in evidence suggesting success with that pursuit?

If there is a *there*, there IMO it likely would need to be revealed by Isabella's sister.

This is the truest fact in this thread ! I have not bothered with the timeline since about day 1 or 2 because there is not one.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Just some thoughts after reading the Probable Cause statement again:

JR claims to have left the house shortly before TG & others (somewhere between 11-11:30)
Claims to have walked to his friend's house at 1383 Lause (a 20-25 minute walk according to google maps)
Claims no one answered the door but he kept knocking
Claims he then walked around, got lost, then went to Wal-mart
PC statement says he did not arrive at Wal-mart for another 3 hours (so 2:30-ish?)
PC statement states JR could not provide his whereabouts in those 3 hours

Earlier msm reports say he was picked up and questioned at around 3:20 am along hwy 95 but the PC statement does not include that.

PC statement states he was arrested for shoplifting on 9/2 at 10:15pm at 1383 Lause (the same house he claims to have gone to in the early morning hours after leaving TG's house and before going to Wal-mart).

PC statement also states there was a witness who reported seeing a person matching JR's description leaving the area of the shallow grave and walking towards Wal-mart shortly before he arrived there.

PC statement also states JR stole underwear and shoes at Wal-mart while in the company of *NAME REDACTED*

So he wasn't alone at Wal-mart while shoplifting.

Actually, the PC is not indicating JJR stole "at Wal-Mart while in the company of *NAME REDACTED*.

The PC text is as follows:

Rector stole new underwear, shoes, and a shirt from Wal-Mart and attempted to hide his old clothing that he wore at [REDACTED] while in the company of [REDACTED]

The PC is indicating JJR attempted to hide his old "clothing that he wore at [TANIA's HOUSE] while in the company of [ISABELLA'S SISTER and / or OTHERS AT THE HOUSE]." Isabella's sister being the witness who can describe what JJR was wearing that evening while he was seen at TG's house.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Okay I see I read that incorrectly Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Magdalyn]

An older, previously posted news piece I stumbled across, but makes for a good synopsis of the environment Bella was forced to live in/people she was forced to be around up to the moment of her death.

http://www.azcentral.com/videos/news/local/arizona/2014/09/06/15184099/

The 10 year old is lucky to be alive, IMO. I pray CPS doesn't fail her.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Maybe. Maybe not. I recall an "uncle" was interviewed, paraphrasing, 'It's the only life she knows' or 'It's all she's ever known', etc. Put that in perspective. Risk for abduction / (possible rape) / murder? I do not believe TG ever thought that any more possible than it would be for any other child. In her mind, her children were 'at risk' only of being taken from her, i.e., lose custody, based on her own behavior, not on the behavior of those around her. TG it seems was never presented with a reason to believe that a years-long-time friend (I believe possibly RF's cousin?) would abduct and murder a child, much less her own.

I have to call BS on the excuse "its the only life she knows". Unless a person has a profound developmental disability, by the time they're an adult with kids of their own, they know right from wrong. Some just chose wrong, and they do it willfully because they like it. TG may have never suspected specifically that JR would have done what he's been charged with doing, but TG most definitely did know she was living a high-risk lifestyle and exposing her children to it. She just didn't care, obviously.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Interesting study.

http://www.tn.gov/correction/pdf/famchild.pdf

 

[ChuckMaureen]

[h=4]Children Living with Felon[/h]
http://community.lawyers.com/forums/t/125184.aspx

 

[ChuckMaureen]

DO CONVICTED FELONS STILL RETAIN CUSTODY RIGHTS?

http://www.lawforkids.org/speakup/9-family/2098-Do-convicted-felons-still-retain-custody-rights

 

[news.talk]

Does anyone else think that due to the conflicting stories provided by the mother, that it may end up HELPING the Defence?

 

[newone]

Does anyone else think that due to the conflicting stories provided by the mother, that it may end up HELPING the Defence?

absolutely -- have felt that from day 2....(day one was too weird).With the ever changing stories as per interviews w/victim's mom, I just got dizzy listening. Whether it was for her own preservation or whether she has some neurological issues that interfere with her short term memory ((??)) TG does not appear to be a 'reliable' witness (JMHO). Each one of her ''accounts of events'' created 'reasonable doubt' which is very scary.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

I have to call BS on the excuse "its the only life she knows". Unless a person has a profound developmental disability, by the time they're an adult with kids of their own, they know right from wrong. Some just chose wrong, and they do it willfully because they like it. TG may have never suspected specifically that JR would have done what he's been charged with doing, but TG most definitely did know she was living a high-risk lifestyle and exposing her children to it. She just didn't care, obviously.

Exactly. That is the crux of this specific case. The "high-risk lifestyle" is a separate issue from the abduction / murder of Isabella.