Found Deceased AZ - Jerold Williams, 5, Jacob Lake, 6 Aug 2015

[steelman]

It looks as if a forest fire burned through that area in the last few years before the satellite image was taken. That's why it appears so barren at the top of the hill and running along forest road 241. All of the dead-and-down trees are another indication. Most of the trees at that elevation are either evergreens or pine trees. This image would have been taken in late winter, early spring. There are light traces of snow left, but not much.

By now, it would be a lot more grown in than when this image was taken a couple of years back. I'm sure it is a lot greener, thicker and lusher now than the way it appears in these satellite images. I can't tell by looking if this was a wildfire or a controlled burn, but either way, it wouldn't look the way it does in these aerial shots at this time of the year and after it had grown back in for a while.

By now, it would look more like the area to the south of the Grand Canyon Highway.

map here:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Jac...4ea9d8a39bb592!2m2!1d-112.170714!2d36.5461684

 

[Eileen730]

I'm not in a position to judge so "wrong" isn't a word I should use, but I find it.... unusual. I can imagine 4 hours would feel approximately equivalent to a full day if a kid was missing. Personally I'd rather call it in early, search myself at the same time and risk having to try and laugh it off with the authorities when the child was just hiding somewhere nearby.:thinking:

Sorry wrong was the only word I could come up with!
4 hrs is a long time!
I wouldn't care if the child was hiding hes out in the forrest not in a closet or under a bed.
I just think that was a bad call on someones part!

 

[byo]

With nightfall approaching by the time authorities were notified, initial search efforts focused on driving roads in the area and setting up a perimeter, Blair said.

"We didn't get this thing until 5:30 p.m. ...," Blair said. "We did as much as we could with both operations on the ground and in the air, but we were short on daylight."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/air-force-helicopters-search-missing-year-boy-32943844

They ran out of daylight. If only they had been called earlier.

 

[steelman]

This place is literally out in the middle of nowhere. With 20 people in a camping party and no one else around, I'm not surprised at all that they would have launched their own search party . 4 hours seems reasonable to me, since I'm sure everybody involved was trying to remain calm, while figuring they were going to find him at any minute while out walking and calling. Calling Law enforcement for help is FAR from a fix-all, as we are all aware.

What I'm more surprised at is that they even had enough cell service to call 911. That place is desolate and isolated. On second thought, they may not have, they might have had to travel back to the campground at Jacobs Lake in order to get hold of LE or a Forest Ranger.

 

[Deleted member 718]

https://www.facebook.com/ABC15/phot...18356341358/10153148098736359/?type=1&theater

ABC News 15 facebook post about Jerold. Reading the comments shows the usual posts that a lost child=bad parents. But some are wondering if this could be related to missing Deorr Kunz. Could there be a serial predator out there. I seem to remember something similar happening before. Maybe I'm thinking of Israel Keyes.

Two little light blond boys missing from campgrounds.

 

[turtlefur]

OK, thanks. It still seems odd to me that he could get so totally lost from a large group of 20 people. How long was he out of sight?

Most 5 yr olds can listen for voices and use logic and reason and it seems strange that he got so lost and so far away so quickly. It seems like someone or something must have taken him away?

I wish this was the case. I have a 5 year old son and he really struggles with impulse control. My older sons were much better at controlling themselves when they were that age, not him though. He is a really smart kid and a really good little boy...but he doesn't think things through. We were camping in June and he ran off twice...once following Grampa to the showers and once to the lake. It was nerve wracking and I understand how quickly they can bolt out of sight.

 

[steelman]

Trust me, where these folks had set up camp, nobody was hiding in the woods and grabbed this kid. I've been using the mountains in Arizona like my own private playground for over 25 years. There's been entire weekends when I went out camping and didn't hear or see another soul for 3 whole days, except for the people in my party. I didn't even hear a vehicle in the distance, including ATV's.

This isn't a creepy, scary, urban area over-run with sex offenders and oddballs. This is about as isolated from the urban sprawl as you can get.

 

[steelman]

Unfortunately, this just reinforces my belief even more that these expensive search dogs that LE use are nothing more than an urban myth. They need to get rid of the dogs, the handlers, and the expensive SUV's they drive around in. Save the taxpayers some money for a change.

This disgruntled view of mine has slowly built over the last few years while watching search after search with ZERO results.

They have been searching for 24 hours...........nothing. If a dog can't track a human being in these conditions........out in the open, in the middle of nature........then what the hell good are they ?

 

[Eileen730]

Unfortunately, this just reinforces my belief even more that these expensive search dogs that LE use are nothing more than an urban myth. They need to get rid of the dogs, the handlers, and the expensive SUV's they drive around in. Save the taxpayers some money for a change.

This disgruntled view of mine has slowly built over the last few years while watching search after search with ZERO results.

They have been searching for 24 hours...........nothing. If a dog can't track a human being in these conditions........out in the open, in the middle of nature........then what the hell good are they ?

Would they have better results with Bloodhounds?

 

[MsMarple]

I wish we'd get more info and some updates. I've been monitoring local news Twitter and... nothing.

 

[byo]

The campsite is in a remote location near a few small ponds at an elevation of about 7,000 feet. Gerry Blair of the Coconino County Sheriff's Department said that there is no cellphone reception in the area so crews are establishing a satellite phone system to help them communicate with each other and with Flagstaff personnel.

http://www.12news.com/story/news/lo...-missing--coconino-county-camp-site/31282003/

Sound like a very remote place.

 

[skinnycat]

Would they have better results with Bloodhounds?

Bloodhounds would have been good because they are a ground scent dog, thier ears flopp back and forth helping waft the scent of what they are trailing to thier nose.

 

[gitana1]

Maybe when they do find this kid, the law enforcement in Idaho can apply it to the Deorr Kuntz case and see if something similar might have happened up there.

The cases almost seem to mirror one another.

I think the terrain, density, ages and risk of predators is totally different.

 

[gitana1]

Does anyone here think waiting 4 hours to call LE is wrong.
4 hours?

Some like to attack parents right away without trying to understand. There was no cell reception there.

 

[MsMarple]

Arizona doesn't do DST so the time zone is the same as mine here in the Pacific Northwest. It's still light out. Hopefully the ground search is still going on. I don't know about helicopters because of weather.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Trust me, where these folks had set up camp, nobody was hiding in the woods and grabbed this kid. I've been using the mountains in Arizona like my own private playground for over 25 years. There's been entire weekends when I went out camping and didn't hear or see another soul for 3 whole days, except for the people in my party. I didn't even hear a vehicle in the distance, including ATV's.

This isn't a creepy, scary, urban area over-run with sex offenders and oddballs. This is about as isolated from the urban sprawl as you can get.

I appreciate your local perspective. Yet somehow 15-20 folks gathered at this isolated area for a friendly camping trip. What seems like isolation to some, is a familiar place to others.

I'm not convinced at all that this is an abduction. But what a better place for a pervert on the run to hide. Just google "abducted from campground". It happens.

 

[sunflowerchick]

I feel the same way about this case that I do about little DeOrr in Idaho. These poor boys have wandered off in wilderness areas and, for some reason, searchers aren't finding them. That's all I think it is and I will not point fingers at family and friends until we have solid evidence that something sinister occurred.

I do NOT think waiting 4 hours to call raises red flags. As a parent, I have been criticized for being "detached" in emergency situations. It isn't detachment, but instead, I distance myself so that I can handle the situation better without completely losing it. I can easily see myself waiting that long for 2 reasons.

1. I am in an area where I assume the child is mostly "safe". I can see the parents thinking "he must be hiding and we will find him so no need to bother LE".

2. Calling LE makes the situation seem worse somehow. It's almost like "giving up" and admitting things are out of your control. That can be hard sometimes, as if you are giving in to your worst nightmare.

In DeOrr's case, I think a camper years from now will stumble across his little remains. In this case, I hope Jerold is found while he can still survive.

 

[ClaireNC]

We know the weather has been bad in that area today. Does anybody know what it was like yesterday when he went missing? Did it rain there last night? Could rain have washed away the scent trail?

 

[MsMarple]

Dunno about yesterday - here's today, just posted:

[video=twitter;629823527068131328]https://twitter.com/NWSFlagstaff/status/629823527068131328[/video]

 

[Deleted member 718]

It appears that Jacob Lake campground is not that isolated. It's near the North rim of the Grand Canyon. It even has a Trip Advisor listing. Jerold's group was camping nearby.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...Jacob_Lake_Campground-Jacob_Lake_Arizona.html